Did He Screw Up Or Is She Crazy?

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Alias (DO NOT USE A REAL NAME!!): deliusfan
:
Comment: So after a decent first set of interactions online with a girl, and even a 50 minute phone conversation that kept her laughing, I thought we were in a good place for a first encounter, if not full-fledged date.  Since she didn’t live in my city, yet not too far away, at first I asked her to come up with a possible venue for fear of dragging her (Yelp review notwithstanding) to some really awful section of town for simply not knowing.  She did seem slightly reluctant, so I bit the bullet, did the research, and then found a winebar that was off the charts, ratings-wise.

A second phone call happened to seal the deal with details; I was stunned when she responds, “Oh, by the way, I don’t drink…” which threw me for a loop since I didn’t remember anything of the sort being on her profile.  I played it off as best as I could, since I didn’t have a backup location and said well, they also have awesome small plates or we can totally blow this firetrap if we get there and decide the location sucks.  Rereading her profile that night, the drinking detail said “rarely” not, “not at all”, which, to be perfectly honest, causes me to move on by since wines are a big part of my life, even if only a couple of times a week rather than every day.

I get to the location early.  Super early.  As in it’s not open for another hour and I’m in a city I don’t know on a Sunday afternoon and it looks pretty residential around there.  I have an hour to kill, and no Starbuck’s in sight.  I’m starting to really wonder about the location I’ve chosen, but ditch the car, anyway, and start walking toward civilization.  After passing a lot of awesome other places that I make note of, I finally manage to knock out the hour and hurry back.  I arrive right at 5:00 on the dot when the place opens, and it also happened to be the time I had suggested.  There was a couple waiting for the door to unlock, and me, no one else around.  The doors open, the couple enter, I look around, see no one, and go on in to freshen up in the restroom for a minute if that.  I come back out, scan the room, no one else, and take a seat in the middle of the bar, obviously alone, and with a good view of the front door (at least of the winter curtains that are up to keep out the cold).  The door is very audible; I look up every time it opens.  No one of her description.  I also notice the picture window but don’t exactly stare out of it the entire time.  Time passes.  10 minutes, 15.  I’m a musician; musicians are typically 15 minutes late.  At 20 minutes I decide to send her a quick text just to point out that I’m at the bar, but there’s no rush.  Sidenote; she has already pointed out an aversion to texts, but the music was pretty loud and I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to understand the conversation without putting all my layers back on and going back outside to talk.  The phone rings a few minutes later.  She states that she is driving home, and is livid.  She never saw me.  I’m stunned; I have been sitting at the bar from about 5:01 and on, and no one of her description came in the door. I tell her I’m sorry she feels the way she does, but I don’t apologize since I don’t know exactly what I would be apologizing for.  I mention all of this to the bartender after the phone call ends, not exactly on the highest of notes, and he says he did notice someone of her description walk by the window but never come inside.

It’s winter; was I supposed to meet her outside and outside only?  No one ever said on either side of the conversation “I’ll meet you outside,” rather, it was “I’ll meet you there.”  I have meetings and other dates all the time; unless someone says “I’ll meet you outside”, I always go in and look for them, and grab a table if they’re not yet arrived, especially since I have reservations the vast majority of the time.  If the weather is great, then sometimes I’ll hang around outside just because I want to.  She said during the last conversation on the phone (that I could barely understand with the loud music) that I should have called, not texted.  But she, too, could have called before driving away at the least.  Did I really have a breach of protocol, here, or is this simply an overreaction that I have no control of?
Age: 41
City: Fort Lee
State: New Jersey

From the beginning, this woman was setting you and this date up to fail. I see this kind of behavior all the time at speeddating events. We had a woman show up to an event a few weeks ago and – from the moment she set foot in the bar – began pelting the host with questions and criticisms. Where are the men? Will there be more men? I thought there were going to be more men. Um, it’s ten after five. Calm down. Sure enough, she gets up and leaves at five-thirty because there weren’t enough men (in her opinion.) She could have had seven dates with seven men, but no. Does that make sense to you? If you pay to meet men, and have the opportunity to do so, and then turn around and leave, then it’s safe to say you never wanted to be there in the first place.

OP, you did nothing wrong other than overindulge this woman’s high maintenance attitude and paranoia. This woman is a classic Don’t Bee. She doesn’t like texting, she gets miffed if you suggest she find a place even though you’re actually trying to do her a favor, she doesn’t bother to walk inside the venue to see if you’re inside like any normal human being would. She doesn’t give an inch at all.

If she’s the one who suggested you chat on the phone first, then this is a textbook example of why people who require that phone call should be avoided at all costs. It’s a hoop to jump. Not only that, but people who still insist on that phone call usually overly suspicious and socially awkward. Coaches who tell women to insist on this phone call are almost ensuring that they only guys who will date them are desperate ones.

Any normal person with even a moderate amount of social skills knows to stick their head inside the venue and look around before leaving a previously agreed upon location. Not only did she not check inside, but she didn’t even bother to contact you in some way to make sure she had the right spot. Nope. She went right to The Don’t Bee Place and stomped off, never bothering to check in with you in some way just in case you were lying in a ditch somewhere.  Of course, that’s if she even showed up at all. If she’s as nuts as she sounds, I could totally see her bailing last minute and not even telling you. The goal is to make the process easier, not more difficult. That’s the red flag to watch out for.

Next time, just shoot your date a text and say, “Hey, I got here a little early. I’m inside!” That way, you have your bases covered.

I call these people time wasters because they suck the ever loving life out of other people’s online dating experience.  You stick around a site long enough and you learn how to spot them. Here are some other signs you might have an encountered a Dating Don’t Bee:

*They require a phone call- Seriously. If someone is still using that call as any kind of litmus test, they’re an idiot. There is absolutely no value to that call other than to learn if they have a speech impediment of some kind and even that isn’t a big deal.

*They won’t meet you half way. Literally. – Anybody who selects a venue location that is close to them but really far from you should get a hard pass. This isn’t the 1800’s where men were expected to go to the women.

*They require a few days or more of emailing before they’ll even consider meeting you. – Anybody who prefers to linger online is a flake and a time waster. If you’re someone who genuinely wants to meet people, then you know how arduous the back and forth messaging can get. No one should actively choose to engage in that, and if they do, then they’re scared little turtles afraid to come out of their shell. Next.

*They won’t give out any personal contact details. – Again, I have a zero tolerance policy for people who don’t give phone or email info and insist we communicate via the site only. Beat it. If they’re that secretive, they’re not going to open up easily. I’m not your shrink. I’m not getting paid to wait for you to have a breakthrough.

*They have disclaimers of any kind in their profile. – Nope. I’m not going to pay for the mistakes made by other people you’ve dated.

*They make you ask them for a photo of their face. – GTFO of here with that bullshit. No special snowflakes. Ever.

*They don’t text you after the date to say thank you. – Ru-hude! If you pay the bill and they don’t send you a thank you text or email, they’re suspect. You heard it here first. They’re abiding by some imaginary and outdated rule. Those people are exhausting. Always be gracious. Always.

*They show up to the date and order a soda or water while you have a cocktail. – I’ll get shit for this, but I’ll stand by it. Nobody likes to be the only person at the table drinking. Unless you’re in recovery or just don’t drink because you don’t like it, order a god damn drink and Sally Sip it if you must. Sitting there with a water just makes you look uptight. And passive aggressive. Personally, I won’t date non-drinkers because I like people who can kick back and have a couple of cocktails. YMMV on that one.

*They repeatedly ask you questions that make it clear they’re vetting you in some way. – If you’re someone who just can not bear to go on a  date with someone without knowing their last name or their occupation, do everybody a favor and stay home.  Maybe if you didn’t make the conversation feel like an interrogation, they’d answer your questions. I had a date like this several years ago. It was a series of rapid fire questions about my interests. There was no dialogue, it was just an interview. I came across his profile a few years later and messaged him to tell him that he was – by far – the worst online date I’d ever had.

*They state in their profile on in their questions that they never have first date sex. – Really? Never? You’re a barrel of monkeys, aren’t you?  Either they want to show you how special and different they are or they have all kinds of rules about when they sleep with someone. Or they judge people for having sex on the first date. Nope to all three.

Anything else?

Thoughts?

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42 Responses to “Did He Screw Up Or Is She Crazy?”

  1. Nicki Says:

    Moxie nailed it.

    This woman sounds like a pain in the butt. You probably dodged a bullet by it ending when it did. Who just assumes that their date isn’t showing up without calling or texting them to check-in first? Someone who has issues or who doesn’t want to go on the date to begin with.

    With that being said, though… If I’m meeting up with someone (date or friend) then I typically text them when I arrive at the location if I don’t see them. Just a simple, “Hey, I’m here. I’ll be waiting outside on a bench/inside at the bar. See you soon!” This way I’m not sitting outside waiting if they are inside or vice versa.

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    • fuzzilla Says:

      That’s true. I send the, “Hey, just got here and snagged us a table” text, too. Never occurred to me that it’s rude not to do that, but it does make life easier.

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    • EANx Says:

      I always texted/emailed what I was wearing and where I was. : red polo and jeans at a table near but not at the bar.

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  2. fuzzilla Says:

    Ugh, I had some flaky friends pull that shit with me. I won a bunch of free tickets to a show so they just had to show up and say, “I’m with (fuzzilla)’s party” to get in. It was a cold day and I waited for them in the lobby and they stood outside and then left in a huff, thinking I was some asshole who blew them off rather than thinking to peek inside the venue or send me a text.

    Agree with the advice to the OP, but I kinda wonder why he put up with her nonsense and doubted himself. Was she out of his league hot? Does he have this inner voice saying, “I’m always so negative, though, and I should give people a chance”? You can have trust issues and (some) people can still suck and be crazy.

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  3. em Says:

    the “I’m here” text goes both ways though; if I showed up to venue unable to find my date, I’d send a quick text before storming out of there.

    OP sounds like a considerate person and should consider himself lucky to avoid such an uptight date.

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  4. xyzed Says:

    OP. Kiss the ground because you just dodged a bullet. Plenty of fish in the sea and keeping looking.. Also I have to disagree about about a 1st phone call. Even if its 5-10 min call… I would be more comfortable knowing that at a minimum I can communicate to that person as oppose to meeting someone for the 1st time and they just sit there having nothing to say or being social awkward because they no longer have a keyboard or smartphone to hide behind.

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  5. AnnieNonymous Says:

    I’m seeing this sort of thing more and more…people who go through the motions on the apps/dating sites but don’t have any real interest in meeting up. I think there’s a chance that (since you’re into wines) she said she doesn’t drink because she was already trying to get out of the interaction. The fact that “someone of her description” walked by (a woman with a certain hair color?) doesn’t mean that this woman actually did bother driving over just to walk away. I’d say there’s a chance that she never left home.

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  6. BTownGirl Says:

    This woman was incredibly rude and sounds like the type of pain in the ass that thinks “since I’m a woman in a dating scenario, I don’t have to follow any basic rules of politeness”. If you were meeting, let’s say, a business contact and they just didn’t show up to the meeting and didn’t bother to check in when they (allegedly) didn’t see you, would you ever have anything to do with them? No, hell no in fact, because it shows a stunning lack of manners and respect for your time. I agree with Moxie that it’s highly possible that she never actually showed up. If that’s the case, who does that? Quadruple who does that considering that you very nicely traveled to see her. Quite a few of my college friends live in NJ and are looking for men in your age bracket, so you have options and there’s no reason to put up with this sort of foolishness or let it sour you on dating!

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  7. sarah Says:

    You lost me at “aversion to texts.” Wut? Who is this psychopath?

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  8. UWSGal Says:

    Two thoughts here. First: the woman is nuts. To not send a text or peek inside the venue? Either she’s totally crazy or she simply never left home.

    Second: it is precisely to suss out such crazy that a phone call and some meaningful email interaction prior to the first date is necessary. The OP clearly ignored the red flags. I suppose she was hotter than him/out of his league.

    If a simple act of dialing a number and making a small talk for 5 minutes is such a huge hoop for a guy to jump through, he’s probably way too socially awkward for me. But also, it gives me more to go on when judging if the person is date-worthy. Dating after the age of 30 is no longer a numbers game, you have to focus on quality over quantity. Going on crappy dates really hurts the morale and is a waste of time.

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    • Eliza Says:

      I agree…time is too valuable today. Long work weeks….I don’t place much credibility in just one phone call, but if someone can’t make simple intelligent small talk – in 5 min. just prior to meeting…I don’t bother setting up even a lame coffee meet/greet. And I can certainly understand not wanting to text a novel back and forth, especially with someone you haven’t met in person yet–but to send a quick need-to-know text about location and time? And just a quick “hey, at the place, inside”, or “I’m here, where are you”? that’s completely unreasonable, and just demonstrates how inflexible this woman is now, forget about how she will be long-term. You need to meet people half-way and show courtesy. She did you a favor…albeit you wasted some time, found yourself a wine bar and explored a new neighborhood! lol

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  9. Brad Says:

    I think she looked through the window, didn’t like what she saw, then bailed. I doubt she left because she was expecting him to be waiting outside.

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    • AnnieNonymous Says:

      I think she maybe probably didn’t even walk by. So the bartender told OP that a woman walked by the window. I don’t take that at face value. The bartender could have seen any woman at all, or he could have made it up. A bartender who’s working at a busy wine bar is not keeping track of the people who are passing by the window.

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  10. UWSGal Says:

    “They don’t text you after the date to say thank you. – Ru-hude! If you pay the bill and they don’t send you a thank you text or email”

    Also have to disagree with this one. If they pay for me I say thank you on the spot or before we part ways. Following up with an email or text is overdoing it and screams needy/looking to initiate further contact. It’s the guy who needs to reach out again to ask for the second date. No need to front him with a useless thank you note

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Following up with an email or text is overdoing it and screams needy/looking to initiate further contact. I

      Nope. sorry. That’s what all your girlfriends tell you and they’re wrong. That’s not how men interpret that gesture. Ask any man how important that post date thank you is and how much it factors into whether or not there’s a second date.

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      • mxf Says:

        Yet another reason to pay your own way as a woman dating. That way, the follow-up thank you text can actually be used as a way to say that you really liked their company, instead of just feeling compelled to acknowledge the transactional nature of the first date…

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        • Eliza Says:

          mxf…some men, not all–refuse, and are adamant about NOT accepting any contribution towards a date. And I (recently no less)–was insistent on giving my share since I didn’t feel a connection to this particular man…but he would not accept my money. So–I said thank you on the spot.
          But yes, if I was interested in going forward–I would follow-up with a thank you – even via text…”thanks for a great time and enjoyed our conversation”. Never hurts.

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      • BTownGirl Says:

        I’ve never really worried about how it would be interpreted, because it’s just basic etiquette. If a friend has you over for a dinner party, do you send a thank you note and say again that you had a great time? Of course! This is no different.

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        • UWSGal Says:

          Of course it is different. This is not a friend, this is a virtual stranger, you presumably went on one date together, there’s no relationship (yet)

          Presumably, again, he bought you a glass of whine and an appetizer. May be a dinner. Likely, nothing out of the ordinary. A simple “thank you for XX, I had a great time” before you kiss him on the cheek and get into your Uber will do. That’s it, he did something good, you said thank you, you’re done chewing on this subject. By sending him a “thank you” text you’d only be sending wrong signals: (1) you are desperate and using it as a way to initiate contact (2) needy (3) not used to being treated this way, etc., etc… Seriously, unless a guy went MASSIVELY out of his way on a first date (say took you on a helicopter ride), it is NOTHING SPECIAL. He bought a glass of wine. Nothing to write home about. If you overthank for such a simple thing you’re setting the bar too low. “Dislike” it all you want, but this is exactly how stuff works.
          P.S. the only type of men who’d be turned off by the lack of a follow up text are the insecure, needy creatures in constant need of reassurance. They’d also be a disaster to be in a relationship with (cause this need for constant validation never goes away)

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          • BTownGirl Says:

            No, good manner aren’t situational. When someone spends time/money/effort on you, you acknowledge it. My boyfriend didn’t think I was a needy, overthanking loon because I texted the day after our first date to say I had a wonderful time. If a grown man takes a nice gesture as a sign of desperation, he’s an idiot and that’s not “how stuff works”.

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            • UWSGal Says:

              But you ALSO spent time on him. You graced him with your presence. You showed genuine interest, you (hopefully) made him feel good. What is a glass of wine compared to that to even mention it? Why make such a big deal of it? He should be the one thanking YOU the next day, not the other way around.. I have never sent thank you notes to men after such a trivial situation. Never seen this stop them either. Now, if they send flowers, jewelry, or do something else meaningful, now THAT is a thank you note (and more :) worthy event. YMMV.

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              • ATWYSingle Says:

                I’m guessing you’re in you’re in your fifties or older, yes?

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                • UWSGal Says:

                  No I am actually technically considered a millennial :) I am just old-fashioned when it comes to dating.

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                  • BTownGirl Says:

                    Wait, but you mentioned that you’ve been married twice in another comment, am I right? Millennial age range is 18-34.

                    Anyway, the whole point of manners is to show someone (be it a date, business contact, new friend, etc.) that you treat people with respect and consideration and that you value others. It’s not “making a big deal” of anything and there’s really no effort involved in sending a two-sentence text. What message does not sending it say? It says, “I couldn’t be bothered/I don’t want to look too eager”. The former says “I’m a jerk” and the latter says “I’m immature/insecure/play games”. I don’t know what being “old-fashioned” means to you, but I’m guessing it’s something along the lines of “the man makes all the nice gestures”? Sorry, but it’s a two-way street if you want a good relationship.

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                    • UWSGal Says:

                      that is correct, I have been married 2x by the age of 33 (what can I say.. the guys keep proposing :) and I am a rather old fashioned girl, I do not cohabitate or any of that nonsense. And no, I don’t think men should do all the work. I will do my part, but that does not involve thanking him for, basically, showing up and being a man. Written thank you-s are for going above and beyond. That is not going above and beyond. We may agree to disagree on this issue. I am glad things are working out for you and your BF :)

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                    • BTownGirl Says:

                      I’m guessing there’s a good chance this is a troll account, but if you’ve honestly gone through two divorces by 33, you need to rethink your dating strategy. Mazel tov on the proposals, but obviously something’s gone seriously wrong.

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          • K Says:

            Just chiming in that I agree on the no need to text if your words and actions show gratitude. More often than not an interested guy will text me before I get home in any case. It will never be a winning argument on this site, but off of it make and female friends do not think this is some required ritual. In fact both sexes have gotten the night of text and realized it’s also meaningless. Just adding my plus 1 to your sentiments.

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    • Yvonne Says:

      I agree. If you have thanked him in person, and expressed genuine interest, an interested man is going to ask you out again. Save the second thank you for when you get the second date.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      The purpose of the thank-you text is to show interest and give a “green light” without looking desperate – it’s a feature not a bug. Your focus on giving “too many” thank yous is beside the point because it’s not about manners The man gets nothing of value from the gesture, he just knows you are interested in getting together again. In other words, the thank you text is 100% for the benefit of the woman – to get what SHE wants.

      It’s just a maximizing social strategy. You don’t want to do it, then don’t. Who gives s shit?

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      • BTownGirl Says:

        For some of us, manners is a big part of it, actually. When I was dating and wasn’t feeling it after the first date, I still sent a text saying thank you very much for meeting up, but I wasn’t sure we were a match. It only takes two to three sentences to avoid being a dick! ;)

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          If manners is really the consideration then saying thank you at the end of the date, without further contact, is perfectly appropriate and sufficient if not preferred. Sending a follow up text to someone you don’t want to see again is odd and wouldn’t be expected or well received in my opinion.

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          • BTownGirl Says:

            The alternative would have been to reject them when they tried to set up a second date. If there had been a situation where it seemed like they weren’t into it either, THEN I wouldn’t have sent anything. For what it’s worth, no one seemed to think it was weird at all.

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          • Eliza Says:

            DMN–you can say that again. I have encountered some really bitter/angry men – who are very reactive (negatively) – when you are polite in telling them, “I just didn’t feel a connection or there wasn’t that x-factor there”. But had a fun time anyway-chatting with you. They turn into raging monsters, not all–but a few. Sometimes less is more…and safer–with people you do not have any intention of keeping in touch with! lol

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  11. Yvonne Says:

    Things like this have happened to me in the past, but that was before cell phones and texting were common. These days, it really easy to send a quick text to say that you have arrived at the venue and are waiting inside (or outside). That is the beauty of texting.

    I would certainly wait a minimum of 15 minutes for anyone I was meeting. This sounds to me like someone who had minimal interest to begin with and was looking for an excuse to leave.

    As far as phone calls and emails go, it’s completely up to the individuals involved. If someone is more comfortable with an initial call, I think it’s fine. Exchanging a handful of emails strikes me as fine as well. Personally, I like to get to know someone a little bit before meeting, even if it’s just a brief email exchange.

    I suspect that people are bored with online dating and are rushing to get through it these days. Some are desperately rushing to get into a relationship, any relationship, even more are not truly available in the first place.

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  12. Richard Says:

    I realise it may not seem like it now but you’ve not only dodged a bullet there, you’ve actually dodged a nuclear missile of a women whose target was your freedom and very happiness you enjoy so much.

    Everybody knows that you should at least enter the venue to see if the person is there or not! Imagine what being with someone who is that vacuous, unitenlligent and needy would be like on a full-time basis!

    You did nothing wrong, literally nothing. Chin up, there are other less insane women still out there!

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  13. Bluegrass Says:

    Great post, Moxie. I appreciate the tips. The woman in this post makes me angry. Meeting up in an unfamiliar location can be difficult. You don’t know how loud the location is or what kind of cell signal you’re going to get. Texting in situations like these is a must, because you can easily read a text several minutes after you get it in an environment where you might not have heard the ring of a call. Also, if you get even the littlest bit of reception you probably can get a text. How can this woman leave the place without even calling him, and then be really mad about it? What if he was in some kind of trouble? Just super-inconsiderate and ignorant. I’m sorry the guy had to go through all that, but glad that you warned about people like this.

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  14. Brad Says:

    I must say that the most shocking part of this article is the fact that you (Moxie) took the time to reach-out to a bad date, years after the fact, to inform him that he was a dud. I could understand if you gave it to him straight, right after the date, if he continued to pursue you.

    If there is one thing I’ve learned from reading your articles, it’s how to avoid wasting time when it comes to finding dates online. So it seemed a bit out-of-character for you to go to that length to bust his chops.

    BTW, I would NOT want to end up your bad side. Fuck that noise.

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  15. Mark Says:

    Deliusfan

    I know that you wrote that this was meant to be a quick meet and greet “Let’s get a drink” maybe some light dinner at a place convenient for her.

    But from you described this was breakfast… as in cereal… as in flakes and nuts. Because that was what this woman was.

    Seriously though, it honestly sounds like you didn’t do anything odd or out of line. B that I mean would an ordinary person in a similar situation do anything differently. Not really.

    In the phone conversation she claims not to have seen you. But according to you no one matching her description even stuck her head in the door. If she were outside waiting, why didn’t she call you and say she was outside and clear up any mis communication or misunderstanding at that point? In fact, it is entirely possible she wasn’t even there at all. To top it off she flipped out at you when it was her actions/inactions that seemed to have caused the situation to begin with.

    The saving grace of your letter was that you never met her. Because from what you described she was either totally clueless, a basket case, or someone just messing with your mind. Non of those things is good. Sadly, those sorts of people are out there. Both men and women.

    Count your blessings and move on.

    Best of luck and hope things improve.

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  16. A M Says:

    I don’t think he screwed up. Yeah, he could’ve been more clear (I’m inside at the bar). I do think that her not coming in was odd and not texting instead just driving home peeved was overboard. I think there were problems on both sides; however, we can only get better ourselves.

    However, I think the advice given after that is appalling! I’m reading this advice columnist (whoever it is) thinking, “is this what dating has come to?” and based on my experience, yes it has.

    Yes, apparently, wanting to have phone calls on occasion instead of texting all the time is considered monstrous behavior. Obviously, you’re crazy if you want to hear someone’s voice. Because it’s not like people have hidden behind keyboards before saying all sorts of wonderful or horrible things they could never say to you live. No, I’m sure that hasn’t ever happened. It’s not like a 30 second scheduling call hasn’t ever taken hours via text. Oh no, those are merely myths and legends from “oldtimers”.

    True, women should not only thank you in person for a meal or a drink, they should text you AGAIN… because you know, text is GOD and they are obviously so desperate for that meal or drink they need to thank you repeatedly IN ALL COMMUNICATION FORMS (text being the most important one, of course) because you are so insecure that you need repeated gratitude validation because thanking you in person obviously isn’t enough.

    Hello, entitled millennial dishing out advice on this blog. Honey, you’re the problem. No, really. You are. Grow up.

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  17. Cleopaddera Says:

    Wow. Many things on your list of deal breakers show just how out of touch you are. Women should not require getting to know someone just a bit before meeting? Do you have any idea how many men out there are just as crazy as you describe this woman? As for the phone call, does it kill you to allow a woman to talk to you first to get a feel for you? Texting does not allow this. I do meet men usually within a week, if they are up to it, and believe men, there are plenty of men who are the ones wanting to chat and talk on the phone forever and never meet. For women, meeting a man instantly brings in the question of safety. And believe me, I met men who were not safe to be around. So guys, lighten up! If you can’t afford to talk on the phone once before meeting a man, how do you think she’s going to feel about your ability to compromise and care about her needs? Instead of calling women “crazy” why not try to understand from where they come from. Oh, and for a first meeting did this guy even ask her where she would feel comfortable meeting? Think about it guys.

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  18. Laura Says:

    I still fail to see how a phone call can make anyone sure the person they’re meeting is not a cannibalistic murderer or whatever it is the people are afraid of on teh Interwebz. If anything, it’s likely to give you a false sense of security, as REALLY dangerous types are those that are good at manipulating others. Sounding charming on the phone is not at all a big deal for them.

    That’s not to say I’m against phone calls per se. If they make someone feel safer, then go for it by all means, it’s just I don’t really think it’s a guarantee of any kind. I’ve had lovely phone conversations with guys I never actually got to meet because they were always oh so busy. I’ve met and had a great time with guys I didn’t have any contact with outside the dating website/app, except for a single text message to confirm the date. In fact, from my experience, those who insisted the most on taking on the phone were the most likely to flake out and ghost later on. It could well be just a coincidence, but I simply don’t place too much importance on having a phone call before the date.

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