Who Has First Date Sex Without Using Protection???


Hi Moxie:

I wanted to tell you a story, not because I have a question but to see
what you think.  I met a girl on howaboutwe, she is 25,  Persian (grew up
in Iran) and didn’t know European food well. I wrote to her about a
Spanish place in my neighborhood and we ended up meeting. A few
glasses of sangria later, we ended up back at my place. I know it was
stupid, but I didn’t ‘helmet my warrior’ that night. So the date ends
with a swing by CVS for some Plan B (on me).

Sidenote: I’m reasonably certain she didn’t just toss the Plan B, she
later commented that inside the (rather large) box the pill was super

We like each other & continue dating, a couple of weeks go by when she
tells me she is late. The next time I see her she is still late, at
which point I tell her there is no point in keeping this a mystery.
The following Sunday I pick up some EPT’s and she tests positive (five
times – if that is significant).  She asks me what I want, and (of
course) I tell her we aren’t ready.

We both start researching early termination options – she said she
didn’t want to do the pills, too many online horror stories of severe
cramping only to discover they didn’t work anyway. I started calling
aspiration facilities, but nothing was what we were looking for – too
expensive, too far away, no ‘companion’ option, etc. I said we should
go to Planned Parenthood to following Saturday – for some reason I had
it in my head that PP offered abortion counseling but didn’t perform

When we got there, they gave her another test while I waited. She met
with a counselor and requested that I be there. The counselor came and
got me, told both of us the test was positive, at which point (to my
surprise) my girl turned to me and said ‘so what do you want to do?’ I
again said we aren’t ready, and we talked to the counselor about a
variety of topics. It turns out PP performs abortions, at a place
close to my home and at a reasonable price. At one point the counselor
said aspiration is only used for 6 to 13 week pregnancies. I said our
first date was only 4 weeks prior, the counselor gave me a look and
said ‘our tests only work for pregnancies past 5 weeks’.

I looked it up later – there are two ways of counting weeks, 1) from
the date of the last period or 2) from the (estimated) date of the
fertilization. That 2 week bridge could make all the difference. One
last thing to note – she showed me her belly the next day, and it was
the size of a golfball. She is a really tiny girl (maybe 5’3 and about
90lbs), but still I was surprised.

We left PP Sat with no appointment because she ‘wanted to think’.
Today she went back and got some financial counseling, and made an
appointment for this coming Saturday.

Anyway, curious about your thoughts, especially as it relates to me
and what the ‘right thing’ would be for me to do this week. – Jay, 40


Okay. Where do we begin?

I’m reasonably certain she didn’t just toss the Plan B, she
later commented that inside the (rather large) box the pill was super

The only thing you know for sure is that the Plan B was purchased. You have no idea if the pill was actually taken. Anybody can open a box and look inside. Next time, and I’m really hoping this situation taught you a lesson and there won’t be a next time, you stand over her and you watch her take that pill. I know that sounds harsh, but if a man is intent on not having children, he needs to have a far more active and accountable role in the whole process.

This, ladies and gentleman, is why men shouldn’t casually date women this much younger than them. The level of immaturity expressed by both parties is STAGGERING.

First of all, let’s just be honest here. You were never going to date this girl seriously. In which case, you made a crucial misstep by “being there” for her. Now you’ve indulged her immature ideas of how relationships roll out. She’s a 25 year old woman who chose to have sex with a guy on a first date without a condom. Therefore, she can be a big girl and take that test on her own instead of tickling your ass with a feather about how she’s omigod late.  Dram drama drama, be there for me, etc. Bottom line: if she screwed you on a first date without a condom, she’s done it before. That is not a judgment call. That is a case of identifying a possible pattern. That’s it.

If this is new behavior for her, I can just about guarantee you she assumed that because you went without a condom with her, she was “special.” From that moment on, she had it in her head that she meant something to you. And every step of the way, you have enabled that thinking. That is going to make this whole situation much more difficult.

Do I feel you have an obligation to this woman? Yes. Absolutely. The unfortunate part of this is that you don’t know for sure that this baby is yours. Again, not a judgment call. Just pointing out a possible pattern. This is why I tell all my male friends to never, ever, ever go without birth control when they sleep with women this young. At that age, women are still figuring out their cycle. If this girl was willing to have unprotected sex when she did, and a pregnancy resulted, then she likely hasn’t a clue about her cycle and when she ovulates. That’s something many women figure out over time. We learn how to identify the changes in our bodies and know when we’re most fertile. This girl is immature. Plain and simple.

Regardless of whether or not you’re The Daddy, you’re stuck. There is no point in addressing the major inconsistencies here, as she’s not going to tell you the truth. She has it set in her mind that you’re the daddy and nothing will change that. Should she not decide to go through with the abortion, you demand a DNA test before you commit to ANYTHING.

You should pay for half of the procedure, check up on her afterwards, but you should not sit there in that waiting room with her. Tell her to get a friend to go with her. Sorry, but this is one of those brutal life lessons this girl needs to learn before she finds herself back in that clinic. You are not her boyfriend. You will not have a life together. You can not force intimacy through an unplanned pregnancy. The more you do for her and the more you indulge her, the harder it’s going to be when you dump her. Which is exactly what you should do once all the dust settles. This girl is a A CHILD. She has immature views on dating and relationships ( as do you) and refuses to be accountable for her choices. Between the unnecessary drama, the the inability to take more responsibility, to her stunted approach to relationships…this girl is a kid. You’re an adult. And you should have known better. Your days of going without a condom after a  drunken night out with some random girl should be long behind you. You’re worse than she is. Seriously, what adult male ejaculates inside of a woman he barely knows knowing no birth control is being used? I love how proud you sound of  buying her a box of Plan B? Wow, you’re a true gentleman, aren’t you?

We left PP Sat with no appointment because she ‘wanted to think’.
Today she went back and got some financial counseling, and made an
appointment for this coming Saturday.

I’m not sure that she “wanted to think.” My guess is she was hoping to either change your mind or try and force a little more intimacy before this whole thing goes to pot.  You need to make it very, very clear to her that you will do the stand up thing and support your child if that is her decision, but that there will not be any form of a romantic relationship between the two of you. My guess is, once she understands that, she’ll see where things are headed and hopefully go quietly into that good night. This relationship needs to end, pronto. If it doesn’t, she will probably hold that abortion over your head. You two do not have a future. So suck it up, get through this week, do the right thing, be supportive without enabling her delusions, and then be on your way.





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35 Responses to “Who Has First Date Sex Without Using Protection???”

  1. Dude Says:

    You made two mistakes. The first was not using a condom. The second was that you put your age on your letter. Moxie and some of the other commentators have a real bitterness about older man dating younger women, and you deserve some serious non-judgmental counseling, not the shame fest she just unloaded on you. I would advise you to go somewhere else for advice as important and as life-changing as this situation is. Good luck.

    • ATWYSingle Says:

      Oh for fuck’s sake. Go suck a huge back of dicks. The tone has nothing to do with him dating a twenty-five year old. It has to do with his blatant ignorance and immaturity.

    • Eliza Says:

      Dude–you are as immature and as ignorant as that 40 year old supposedly grown man with your idiotic comment. Who gives a fuck, that he had sex with some 20+ year old…he should have known better and used protection…and not merely just for avoiding this drama-infested situation–but also to protect himself against any STD’s…since he barely knows this person! Moxie’s reply is just straight forward and factual…she is 25, going on 15. And the letter writer is 40, going on 20, if that. No shaming here, just stating the truth.
      He should have been thinking with the bigger head! lol

    • Nia Says:

      But the bulk of her advice was not centered around the *age difference* it was “this is why you don’t have unprotected sex with young women *at any age*”. She’s not saying this specifically happened because he’s 15 years older than her. She gave him specific advice on exactly how to handle this, including concrete steps to take. Nowhere did she say the *age difference* is the issue.

      Reading between the lines, it could be inferred that when a man is 15 years older than a woman, there may be some pressure for the much older party to “take care of” the younger party, and to do things like insist on birth control, insist on seeing the person take the Plan B in front of you, insist on a DNA test, and so on. But that’s only if one is really straining to find something that’s not there.

      Female comment-er’s have hammered on some points before in these comments, that’s true–and if you’re looking for the outrage and irritation, you’ll find it.

      Male comment-er’s have too. “Women, lose weight!It’s so easy!! Stop insisting that a man be 6’5″ when you’re 5’4″!!! Stop aging and getting ‘saggy’ (just found that gem in an older column’s comments the other day)! Lower your standards before you age and shrivel up and blow away!!” I can go and find these comments over and over and cut and paste them.

      Personally, what irritates most women about May_December set ups is not some “cat fight!” nonsense. It’s how men pursue these ditzy, immature, drama-riddled young women and then *have the unmitigated gall to complain about it*. Or worse, be like “WTF? My GF is 22 and she’s SO immature! Gawd! I don’t get it!”

      I lived in SE Asia for 3 years and I saw this over and over. 50-60 year old retired service man marries 18-22 year old local who *literally barely speaks english* and has a baby with her. He then complains to me, a 35 year old, about how “lonely” he is because his wife “can’t hold up her end of the conversation” and how she’s making poor choices in childrearing due to her age. F–cks given for that poor soul: zero.

  2. Sarah Says:

    Dude: Jay’s behavior is immature. The 25 year-old’s behavior is immature. See how that actually has more to do with terrible decisions than with age? But, sure, let’s also pretend that to claim a 40 year-old man should know better than this is ageism, or whatever. Because reasons.

  3. KK Says:

    The number of weeks since your period dont matter at all – except in the sense that if ypu get a positive oregnancy test and your period was 3 weeks ago you know the pregnancy is less than 3 weeks. Pregnancy tests measure weeks sinse fertilization and this letter writer should not be having sex without a condom if he does not know these things.

    • Parenting Says:

      Nope. How would anyone know what day they conceived? Thats why they count weeks from the day of your menstrual cycle because you know what day your period started.

      • KK Says:

        What? That makes no sense. If you know what days you ovulate and you know you had sex rhose days then you can know the aporoximate day fertlization happened.
        Counting from the last period only tells you the maximum lenth of the pregnancy, which would only be helpful to someone who is having sex a lot and does not know their cycle.

        • Parenting Says:

          You can ballpark ovulation (you wont know when it happened you just know when its over based on body temp/mucus) then you can ballpark conception as within 36 hours of your ovulation ballpark which gives you approximately a 2-3 day window. Pregnancy tests measure time since implantation which occurs 3-12 days after conception. But we are splitting hairs here. I promise, when they count 40 weeks of pregnancy, your period is week #1.

          • KK Says:

            Good to know. Regardless, the LW is most definitely not the father of the “child” (in quotes because I don’t know how she feels about it).

          • Mandy Says:

            Exactly, in modern medicine a pregnancy is 40 weeks, and that counts from the date of your last menstrual period. So technically, the first 2 weeks you hadn’t even had sex yet! That’s just how it works. The earliest it’s possible to find out you’re pregnant with a home pregnancy test is about week 4.5 (a few days after the missed period), which would be a minimum of 2.5 weeks after the sex typically. The day you miss your period you’re about 4 weeks pregnant, by definition (and you likely had the pregnancy-generating sex about 2 weeks before that missed period). I didn’t create the system, just letting you know what it is!

            Dating a pregnancy within a week or so is easy for the doctors to do. If you’re concerned if the baby is yours or not, you should find out how many weeks she is ASAP.

            • Parenting Says:

              Good point. If she is supposed to be 6 weeks pregnant but her OB says she is 12 weeks pregnant then it is definitely not his. If the embryo is the correct age, then wait for the DNA test.

      • Nia Says:

        Heh. Well, most people aren’t having so much sex every day that they can’t figure out when they conceived.
        So, if your last period ended on June 1, and you had sex on June 6 and June 10th, let’s say, and you then miss your cycle that should have started June 28th, likely you conceived in the week of June 6-10, meaning you’re about 3-4 weeks pregnant (because most women give their period a weeks’ grace time to show up or not show up).

        • Parenting Says:

          Again, splitting hairs but i dont think so. The most likely scenario is for fertilization to occur between June 10th and June 15th. Long explanation as to why and not relevant to the thread :-).

  4. Bostonette Says:

    Anyone forgetting there’s an innocent child being born through two assholes who just hooked up? Wow get over yourself if the first thing you think of is protecting a douche who hook ups, gets pregnant then offers plan B for a solution. I hope for the best for that child because god knows he/she will need it with a start in life like this…

    • Yvonne Says:

      “She is a really tiny girl (maybe 5’3 and about 90lbs)…” Cause the more child-like, the better, right?

      The baby was conceived at least a couple of weeks prior to your getting together? Sounds like you’re a prime candidate to be either her new baby-daddy or her new sugar-daddy, congrats.

  5. KK Says:

    I hit enter too soon. Also. If a guy wants to have first date sex he should have freaking condoms with him. Also asca psa. The rate of chlamydia and gonorrhea anong gay men has skyrocketed. I am fairly certain it will start to rise among straight women soon enough, which means straight men will be affected. Condoms protect against that.

  6. Parenting Says:

    Ive never heard of any doctor counting weeks of pregnancy from the day of conception. A cycle starts from the first day of a menstral cycle. I dont know what the pp councelor was talking about. I had a positive pregnancy test 9-11 days after I had sex with both my pregnancies and blood tests are more sensitive and accuarate than those stupid CVS pee sticks. As for her belly being the “size of a golfball”. Please. At 6 weeks, the embryo isnt even the size of a gummy bear. Most women dont show for the first 3 months.

    One possibility to consider is that she wanted a child and picked a sucker who looked like a suitable father to have it with. When I was young, I mistakenly thought older men were more ready to settle down and be good fathers than the boys my age.

    And agree 100% with Moxie on the pregnancy test drama. I have never in my life heard of any woman needing to be escorted to a CVS to buy a pregnancy test. As soon as most of us suspect we are pregnant we are at the drug store pissing on everything. “Im scared I missed my period” is a convo you have with your husband or your mom not some dude you met 2 weeks ago. WTH???

    • KK Says:

      He didnt escort her to buy the oregnancy test. He bought it for her, which is extra weird since it was a ons. He escorted her to buy the morning after pill which is the only part of the story that makes aense to me.

    • Mandy Says:

      Yeah, at 6 weeks pregnant the baby is about the size of a small pea. Because of hormones a woman might be putting on some weight, even water weight, all over so she could look a little bloated/puffy, but there is no visible baby bump at 6 weeks pregnant (2 weeks after the missed period)!

  7. sandra Says:

    The LW states the woman in question is Persian with little knowledge of European food – i.e fairly new immigrant family. If her family finds out she is up a creek and so is he. Good luck.

    • KK Says:

      She could be Persian and just arrived in the US by herself. Sge could also, gasp, be American but grew up in a Persian community without much contact with non-Iraniabs. It is very common.
      And most Persian families in the US that i know are not that conservative.

  8. sandra Says:

    Most I’ve known are quite conservative, though not necessarily religious. Conservative in terms of family values and reputation.
    But anyway, it is their problem. Not mine, haha!

  9. Jaclyn Says:

    I’d escort her to the appointment because I’d want to know that she went through with it. Didn’t some story just go viral about a crazy woman who lied about having an abortion but really kept mark hammill’s kid’s baby? You should make it perfectly clear you won’t be there for her if she keeps the baby since you don’t want her to think she’ll get the family she always dreamed of if she has the baby.

    Also, I recently had a miscarriage (the baby had trisomy 13 and died at 7 weeks gestation). The baby didn’t pass on its own and two doctors both recommended surgical termination over the pill since they said it would be less painful. I’ve never taken the pill but they knocked me out for the termination and thankfully it was a painless procedure physically.

    • BTownGirl Says:

      I’m so sorry for your loss!

      • jaclyn Says:

        thanks – I just wanted other women to know since it can be hard to make decisions about how to end a pregnancy and sometimes they might not be comfortable talking to their own doctors about the different termination options.

        • BTownGirl Says:

          So true and it’s amazing that you’re using your experience to help other women. We need more people like you in the world!!

  10. DrivingMeNutes Says:

    “I met a girl on howaboutwe, she is 25, Persian (grew up in Iran) and didn’t know European food well.”

    Oh yeah, you fell for the old I-don’t-know-European-food-fake-pregnancy-scam. Next time, don’t open the attachment.

  11. Marnie Says:

    Could this girl be trying to trap the man to obtain a green card?

    What if the child wasn’t his? That scenario actually seems likely…

    Why would anyone who is not financially and emotionally stable bring a child into this world, especially in this day and age, when there are so many options to prevent unwanted pregnancies?

  12. UWSGal Says:

    Could this girl be immature? Sure. But likely she’s waaaay smarter than you guys think and orchestrated the whole thing and manipulated this guy PERFECTLY. He’s already jumping when she says so and buying her pregnancy tests at the CVS. I am LMAO. Just wait till she has the kid, moves in and has the OP support her for the next 18 years. Geez. It’s not all bad for him tho. She must be hot.

  13. mamajuju Says:

    I will never be able to understand why men don’t use condoms, why they are never prepared when they KNOW that they intend to have sex ASAP with someone. He invited her to his neighborhood for dinner, close to his apartment.

    And by the way, child support in the state of NY is until the kid is 21.

    Also the infection rate for STDs in NYC is between 60-80%.

    You can buy condoms at any bodega or any pharmacy or super market……..

  14. Laure Says:

    Just for your information: emergency contraception “plan B” does not work when the conception has already taken place. It doesn’t garantee you not being pregnant. It’s not an abortion pill.

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