Stop Letting Strange Men Talk Dirty To You

entitlement

If there’s one thing I’ve noticed in my 10+ years as a business owner, it’s that I get a hell of a lot less push back when I use the masculine (or assumed masculine) spellings of my name. (Chris, Christan.)  Through out my life I have been addressed as Christian. Even when I fill out paperwork with the correct spelling of my name, more often than not they assign me the first name of Christian.

To combat this and to maintain a semblance of online privacy since Christan isn’t a very common name, I spell my name Kristen. That way people know I’m female. When I set up all my new Meetup profiles, I used the name Chris with a photo of myself. Of course, since every woman who appears anywhere on the internet with a photo is assumed to be on the prowl for a man, I have to deal with Meetup messages from men asking me out or coming on to me. That’s always fun, right?  That’s what it’s like for women online. No matter where they are – LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram – they have to deal with flirty to borderline creepy messages from dudes. And some of these guys are hiding behind avatars that are just pictures of their crotch in a banana hammock or, you know, pictures of their penises swinging in the breeze.

The worst of these interactions occurs on online dating sites and apps. Yesterday I matched with someone on Tinder. His first email to me?

“Nothing like a sexy 48 year old.”

Oh look, the unmatch button! *Click.* (I also used it to unmatch the 50 year-old who told me he was a musician slash/bartender. No thanks. Sorrynotsorry.)

Look, if you can’t start a conversation without immediately going to the sex or sexy place, don’t bother. Unless I’m just looking to get laid, I’m going to delete and block you. You very well might be a decent guy, but you ruin it with lines like that.

I do not know who instigated this tradition, but it’s really, really tiresome and offensive. Listen, I get it. If a woman responds to that then more than likely she’s down to fuck. Got it. God bless and Godspeed. An approach like that saves time. But try to imagine what it’s like to field emails like that every goddamn day.

And before any of you Reddit/Red Pill/Beta douchebags start whining about how hard it is to craft messages, fucking miss me with that bullshit. Women manage to do it all. the. time. All women? No. But most. I can’t say that for men. If I showed you my OKCupid spam inbox you’d understand.

“Waaahhhh at least you get messages!” some of you will say.

Oh my God.  In what world is a slew a sleazy messages enjoyable or a compliment? How desperate for emails must you be to think we enjoy reading messages like that? Is it really that hard to say, “Hey there. Looks like we matched. Enjoying your Sunday?” Why do you have to make the interaction sexual? Why? How are men still – STILL – believing an opening line like that is effective?

“Because it works!” some of you will say.

I know. I think that’s the most tragic thing about this. There are still women out there who giggle and blush at innuendo laced comments from strangers. Undoubtedly they voted for Trump. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to get through to some women that allowing men to behave like this only weakens our argument and keeps us oppressed.  Forget about marches and protests. We have to reach those women. We have to do something to close that divide. Without a firm foundation we will continue to struggle. Will we ever be able to reach all of the 53% of white women that voted for Trump?

No.

But we have to try.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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72 Responses to “Stop Letting Strange Men Talk Dirty To You”

  1. Art Says:

    This was a fine piece until you brought up the Trump-Clinton Presidential race, which has no relationship with this topic. Your feminism may lead you to assume that attitudes toward feminist issues drive nearly everyone’s vote, but that is not the way voting behavior in the USA works.

    The 2016 election in most respects was a normal election, with 90% of Republicans voting for Trump, and 89% of Democrats voting for Clinton, according to the exit polls. While Trump did a bit worse than Romney 4 years ago with college educated white voters and a bit better with non-college educated white voters, white college graduated narrowly favored Trump over Clinton, according to the exit polls, continuing the trend that white college graduates have favored the Republican nominee in every Presidential election in the history of polling, going back to the late 1940s.

    Right here in the New York City metropolitan area, several affluent suburban counties voted for Trump over Clinton, including Suffolk County on Long Island, Putnam and Orange Counties in the far northern New York suburbs, and Morris, Hunterdon and Monmouth Counties in northern New Jersey.

    Reasons for affluent, well-educated voters to vote Republican for President, even for Donald Trump, include fiscal conservatism, concern about a generous welfare state undermining work incentives, opposition to higher taxes, opposition to affirmative action in college admissions, employment, and government contracting, a preference for less regulation of business, or a desire for a more restrictive immigration policy, among other reasons. None of those reasons indicate sexism or opposition to feminism.

    I have voted Republican for President in every election since I became eligible to vote, including (reluctantly) for Donald Trump), but I would never consider writing messages such at the ones you quote in this piece to any woman. Electoral politics is complicated, and we all have our own issues that drive our votes. In my own case, Democratic over-regulation of the financial services industry leads me to vote Republican, not any opposition to feminism.

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    • ATWYSingle Says:

      I never equated the men who write the messages to Trump voters. I equated the women who responded to them to Trump voters.

      Nice monologue, though.

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      • Art Says:

        It seems like an improbable relationship you hypothesize between female Trump voters and women who welcome strange men talking dirty to them. Evangelical white women voted overwhelmingly for Trump, and many upscale suburban women voted for Trump as well (Trump clearly could not have won upscale suburban New York and New Jersey counties with male votes only). They do not strike me as the sort of women who welcome men talking dirty to them. During a lifetime of participation in Republican politics, the women I have met at Republican events do not strike me as the type who would encourage such behavior from men.

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        • Kim Says:

          I understand your thoughts, yet these evangelical Republican white women vote for a man who advocates grabbing women by the pussy?

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      • Ben Iyyar Says:

        I like your site, I feel you have much good to offer, however I do NOT like politics.

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    • BTownGirl Says:

      Not to go off-topic here, but “Democratic over-regulation of the financial services industry”…are you serious? Does the name Wells Fargo mean anything to you? Or do you remember, you know, the subprime mortgage crisis? Or, what the heck, any of the gazillion instances of fraud that went on? This is coming from someone who was raised in a Republican household and voted Republican up through Mitt Romney. I can’t support any of it anymore. At some point, it’s stopped being about “government, butt out” and turned into “how can we screw the middle class, working class and the poor until they literally have nothing left and, oh yeah, let’s try to take that too!” Listen, I don’t want to pay Bernie Sanders-level taxes on income or capital gains. I get it, but I still would have voted for him. Because you know what I do want? I want people to have a shot at a halfway decent life with decent healthcare like in every other developed country. Sadly, that and voting Republican have become mutually exclusive in most states and at the Federal level.

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    • Yvonne Says:

      “This was a fine piece until you brought up the Trump-Clinton Presidential race, which has no relationship with this topic.”

      And then 4 more paragraphs about the election, and why you voted for a compulsively dishonest sociopath who lost the popular vote and is now hated by so many all over the world as the oligarch that he is. You talk about “opposition to affirmative action” and “more restrictive immigration policy”, but then say that your vote was really about “Democratic over-regulation of the financial services industry”. Yet you voted for a man with an extensive history of the shadiest and most questionable business dealings in the world? Enjoy your affluent white male privilege. “Reluctant”? I don’t think so.

      People who dismiss orange rump’s language about women as mere boy talk are missing the point that these comments embolden others to think that it’s okay to speak to and about women in ways that demean and disrespect them.

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  2. BTownGirl Says:

    So much YES here! Recently, I randomly got a text from a man that dated one of my friends, like, four years ago. Now, my friend’s relationship with him was mostly about The Sex, but she didn’t have anything glaringly negative to say about him. I assumed he was reaching out because we run in the same professional circles, but no. This dude (who is in his late 30s, btw) wanted to know if I wanted to come over to his house and fuck him. Seriously. I met this person twice several years ago. I assumed at first that he texted the wrong BTownGirl (I have a pretty common first name), but…there I was sitting at dinner with my boyfriend and some idiot is sending me pictures of his dick. What. The. Fuck. The most pressing issue here, as Moxie so wonderfully highlighted, is that this has to work on some women or they wouldn’t do it. It’s tragic beyond words.

    As for the women who voted for The Tangerine Turd? Putting aside the overt racist loons, the ones honestly too stupid to make a better choice, and the ones who’s current reality is so terrible that they deluded themselves into voting against their conscience and all the common sense, we’re left with who? The ones who come from a place of “Well, he’s not talking about me.” Oh pumpkin, yes he is. We all know the type that’s like, “Oh, they only talk about sluts like that! Not me! I’m different and special!” Nope. You’re a woman and men who disrespect and degrade one woman will disrespect us all. Not only do we have to reach the Sad Cases, we have to reach these idiots too.

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    • UWSGal Says:

      I am a woman who voted for Trump. You have “reached us”, alright? The condescending rhetoric from the left is overwhelming, and you still don’t get it. Most women don’t vote along gender lines, but rather vote on economic issues. As do I. Trump had my vote because of his pro-business stance. His predecessor has literally been killing my industry for for last 8 years making it harder for me to make a living, support my family or get ahead in life. He was also raising my taxes and creating runaway asset (housing inflation). The status quo was making me sick. Now, for the first time in the last 8 years I feel like the federal government is not out to get me, and can look into the future with some optimism.

      As for his Access Hollywood remarks- sure they were in bad taste. But guess what; he was not trying to be my boyfriend, he was trying to be the POTUS. So what does it matter? He should be judged based on policy, not some guy talk from 10 years ago.

      Oh, and despite evidently being a “sad case”, I manage to cut off inappropriate talk online and offline just fine.

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      • Nia Says:

        But she didn’t say every Trump voters is okay with being talked to like that. She’s saying (using poetic license and literary hyperbole for effect) that there’s a *type* of woman out there:

        Someone who is so tied to the status quo and/or privileged that either they can’t see why Trump’s sexist and misogyny are scary and upsetting for many women OR they feel those issues won’t affect them and feel like they can vote on economic lines.

        She’s saying, if I read her right, that there’s a certain type of woman who is *collaborating* with wide spread sexism and mistreatment of women. And that is the same type of woman who, against her own interests when it comes to gender relations, votes a scary sexist who shows utter contempt for women and very clearly feels that their only worth is as sexual objects (including his OWN DAUGHTER) and “punishes” women who step out of line by denigrating their looks into office.

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      • BTownGirl Says:

        I get that certain industries were getting absolutely hammered, but that’s really no excuse to vote in someone who is completely vile and, btw, can’t actually deliver on anything he’s promised on the scale he’s claiming. It’s not “guy talk” or “locker room talk” or whatever justifications people want to use. Hell, I was an NFL cheerleader and I spent hours in hearing distance of an actual locker room. Never heard anything that gross. So, you voted in your own self-interest, which is certainly your right, but actually proves my point exactly. You think it won’t affect you as a woman, like I’m sure many people looked at the blatant racism and said, “Meh, I’m not *insert race*, so I can let it go.” I mean, I hope as an American that it’s not the abject economic and social disaster that everyone with half a brain can see coming, but I’m not hopeful and I really wish people had looked at the facts before they voted.

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        • UWSGal Says:

          Actually, I do think that economic interests should trump identity sensibilities (no pun intended). Besides, I do not agree with the categorization of DJT as “racist”. For crying out loud, the guy had not one but two foreign born wives and his daughter is Jewish. People who call him resist with a straight face truly baffle me. But you are definitely entitled to your opinion. I really like out democracy for that.
          Ps. And I a a minority too.

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          • BTownGirl Says:

            ““When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

            Yeah, that’s no racist at all. Nope. And it cracks me up when people bring up Ivanka converting to Judaism as a defense, because as someone who was born half-Jewish, it makes me feel SO much better about people throwing up the Nazi salute at Trump rallies. Nevermind that the extent of his statement about incidents like this was “stop it”. Wow, he really told them! But you’re not concerned with that and that’s fine. Maybe I should just stop paying taxes during Trump’s term because apparently the people who voted about him don’t care about me, so why honestly should I give a shit about all of you? People who say, for example, “But manufacturing! Globalization! He says he’ll fix it!” as an excuse, it won’t be my fault that they failed to do the basic research that told them that automation was actually a much bigger problem and he completely missed that point. You don’t care about other people? Good for you. But as one of those other people, let me say…don’t come crying to us when it all blows up in your ill-informed face.

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          • Jessum Says:

            ‘I do not agree with the categorization of DJT as “racist”. For crying out loud, the guy had not one but two foreign born wives and his daughter is Jewish.’

            I tried to stay out of this but this comment was too dumb to not call out. It’s along the lines of “some of my best friends are black!” LOL

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            • BTownGirl Says:

              Bonus points if it’s “Listen, I have three black friends…” ;)

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            • Kim Says:

              The man is supported by current and former Klansman and neo-Nazis. Oh, right, they support him because of his economic stance…

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          • Yvonne Says:

            His wives have been white, his son-n-law is white. Plus, he has gotten tons of support from the Jew-hating alt-right.

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        • Parenting Says:

          Initially I shrugged off Trumps p grabbing comments because frankly I didnt find them more vile than any of his preceding comments. But a man who is near and dear to my heart said the same as you – namely that he’s spent a lot of time in locker rooms and no one talks like that. If they did, they would be dismissed as a douche bag.

          As for voting a pro-business agenda I thought everyone hated Hillary because she was supposedly in bed with the big banks. How is that anti-business? I also recall October of 2008 when it literally looked like the global economy was going to fall off a cliff. Monolithic banks collapsed. Entire departments were laid off. Pensions were lost. Deflation loomed. The county I lived in saw an average drop of nearly a 50% in property values. I get it, things arent perfect but did everyone forget that we just spent 8 years coming back from the edge of hell?

          Is a vote for the Orange Tinkler really not a vote to win back the cultural wars?

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        • Jesse Says:

          Not for nothing, I’m a bit sick of the false outrage ( or as Moxie says, clutching at pearls) over this pussy grabbing comment. I work with female nurses. What they say everyday makes Trump’s comment pale in comparison. And I’m sure every one of you in private has said something equally stupid, demeaning, and outrageous.

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      • BTownGirl Says:

        P.s. I almost forgot, Obama’s policies didn’t create housing inflation. What created housing inflation was foreign investors buying up the available housing stock in desirable cities in cash and holding onto it as an investment or, in the case of China, as a way to hide money from the anti-corruption efforts in their own countries. This coupled with the banks holding back a lot of the bank-owned stock to drive up prices on what was left led to housing inflation.

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        • UWSGal Says:

          Actually, the Chinese have been a drop in the bucket and you are missing the bigger economic picture. It’s the zero interest rate policy (a result of no economic growth) that has forced capital to flow into hard assets and bid up their prices to insane levels.

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          • BTownGirl Says:

            Nope. I’ve worked in real estate development for over a decade. Zero interest rate policy certainly didn’t help by any stretch, but it’s had a way bigger effect on the commercial market than the residential one.

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            • UWSGal Says:

              Sorry, but “i have worked in RE” is not really an argument. The market size for residential real estate in the US is about 560B give or take (on NAAR data for 2015) and the Chinese accounted for less than 5pc of that (27b to be exact). So while they make good click-bait headlines especially in places like NY and CA the numbers don’t support your statement, I am afraid. But what do I know, I al just an “idiot” trump supporter.

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              • BTownGirl Says:

                Yes, “I have spent a decade of my adult life knee-deep in real estate data in the Boston market (prime example of this phenomenon” is an argument. You do know that those figures include areas like Detroit and Minneapolis where the numbers have been depressed and the market is wide open, correct? So many cities don’t actually have much competition in the residential market and the foreign investment numbers are largely irrelevant there.

                And, yes, you are an idiot. You’re welcome.

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                • UWSGal Says:

                  Lol. Those are dollar figures, dear. So even though they do include cheaper markets like Midwest, they are precisely representative of the actual amount of capital. I trust it that you have crunched numbers for a local developer, but your analytical thinking is lacking. Which is not really that surprising.

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                  • BTownGirl Says:

                    Sigh. The numbers for the whole country include areas that have no competition, so it would have nothing to do with housing inflation because in those areas THERE IS NO INFLATION. As in (and try to follow along), areas where there is no inflation are irrelevant. So looking at a national total tells us nothing. As for crunching numbers for a local developer, several generations of my family have developed $20+ million in real estate in our area, so I suppose that’s kinda true? And unlike your President, none of us ever fucked it up and had to file for bankruptcy.

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                    • ATWYSingle Says:

                      Cam the both of you please stop?

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                    • BTownGirl Says:

                      My bad, I just can’t with the “alternative facts” on any level at this point. As soon as I saw those salutes going up at the alt-right rally, I though we’d better all hold onto reality with both hands.

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      • JayD Says:

        UWSGal, You blame the Obama administration for your inability to get ahead in life? I take it that you are economically challenged. Just wait till Trump makes good on his threats to declare trade war with Mexico and China, then you won’t even have the simple pleasure in your life from shopping at Walmart and Dollar Tree.

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        • UWSGal Says:

          I am not. I am actually doing relatively very well for myself, but for the amount of effort I put into my studies and work I should have a penthouse and a yacht right now. I’ve worked 60-80 hours a week for 8 years and more than once saw what should have been my earnings confiscated by the federal goverent in one form or another. So sick of it. Now we have the president that actually asked business leaders to submit proposals on how to improve the economy. Oh, horror, right? Anyway. I am done ranting.

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          • ATWYSingle Says:

            Just imagine if you were getting paid as much as men get paid to do the exact same thing.

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            • UWSGal Says:

              please don’t pretend you know my industry. Me being a woman has no bearing on my pay. Malicious prosecution of every other firm, goverent extortions under the guise of “settlements”, witch hunts of all sorts and suffocating regulations, on the other hand…kinda ruin the pay day every year.

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              • ATWYSingle Says:

                “Me being a woman has no bearing on my pay.”

                Oh, Honey. No. You being a woman has EVERYTHING to do with your pay.

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                • JayD Says:

                  You are factually correct Moxie. There are some industries in which women make much more than men. The adult film industry is one.

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  3. Speed Says:

    DJT has taken a real beating on this dating blog, along with Republicans/conservatives generally. However, it’s not accurate to view every Trump voter (or white female Trump voter) in this rather narrow way. According to Pew, Trump won 62% of white college-educated females—including, by statistical implication, at least some number of Ivy League-educated women. Yes, she’s an MIT grad but “too stupid” to vote according to her self-interest? Unlikely. Or do we trot out the lazy tropes of “self-hater” or “false consciousness” whenever we encounter dissent? Sure is easier than crafting an argument.

    Here are some well-known reasons people (including women) voted for Trump:

    –Disagreeing with Hilary specifically or Dems generally
    –Enacting at least some portion of the conservative agenda
    –Preserving a conservative Supreme Court
    –Loosening business regulations and lowering taxes
    –Lowering crime and increasing economic opportunities in inner cities (which may be why he won 8% of the total black vote, higher than Romney. He also won 13% of the black male vote, which hasn’t been reached since Eisenhower, and about 29% of the Latino vote, incredibly enough—even if you take contrasting claim of only 18%, it’s still high)
    –Opposing political correctness/identity politics
    –Preserving traditional social values

    Now, you can agree or disagree with these reasons, that’s okay. But, in contrast to what you see on Rachel Maddow, not every Trump voter was some Alt-Right frat boy, MRA/Red Piller, Neanderthal or back-country Klanswoman or bar girl The polling statistics just don’t bear that out. Very many Dems did not like Hilary, but voted for her anyway—if only out of habit or hatred of her opponent. Same with GOP voters. Trump managed to “flip” a crucial number of counties (217) that had previously voted for Obama, which shows he’s either incredibly skilled or lucky, or Hilary was incredibly incompetent.

    The Dems were decimated not only in the electoral college (yes, quote the popular vote stats all you want, but that’s not the way we elect the president—something Hilary knew full well when she jumped in the race: a few million extra votes in deep blue states like NY or CA puts you no closer to the presidency) but throughout the states: governors, legislatures, you name it. Two or 3 more states, the GOP will have enough power to change the constitution on its own. Putting a million people on the DC mall protesting with funny hats looks impressive for news cameras, but from an electoral perspective, it’s not even a drop in the bucket.

    Personally, I have a lot of concerns about Trump—as his flaws are very well known. I was a “Never Trump” heavy backer and small donor for Fiorina in the primaries, then Rubio, then, finally, as the clock ran out, Cruz. Voted Libertarian in the general. Now, I’m in wait-and-see mode. If Trump can enact a pro-business platform, avoid war, boost the economy and deal with inevitable crises that will come along, I might be able to get behind him in 2020.

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    • Nia Says:

      I appreciate your well thought out and neutral statements, backed by facts. Thank you sincerely for not going to the “UR UGLY AND A LESBIAN TOO” place that many blog/comment sections get to. I wish others could take a breath and a moment to so coherently state their views. The commentariat here runs the gamut but in general, people are thoughtful and civil. Occasionally you get a mouth breather or knuckle dragger, but it’s people like you, DMN, and Fuzilla and a couple others (Harold from back in the day was okay, if a tad stuffy) who keep me coming back. Thanks! ;)

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      • DrivingMeNutes Says:

        Ha, thanks, and rest assured this sensible guy is/was not a Trump voter/supporter. And yes I think the vocal Trump-supporters are true imbeciles and/or psychologically troubled with serious rage issues, “affluent” or otherwise lol and, no, I don’t care that they think I’m condescending or snobby. Guilty.

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    • em Says:

      You may not have voted for DJT b/c he was a racist, but his racism, xenophobia and misogyny were not deal breakers for you. as a minority, I don’t have that luxury but enjoy your tax break at the expense of my civil liberties.

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      • Speed Says:

        “As a minority, I….”

        Just so you know, when I wash my face every morning, I see my African American face staring back at me. But that’s not important, in a way, because don’t I think my skin color predetermines me to vote a certain way. Apparently at least 13% of black males and 18-29% of Hispanics felt the same way.

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    • Parenting Says:

      I agree with you but on the comment that DJT has been taking a beating here. Really? ATWYS has only mentioned Trump twice that I have read and only in passing. Honestly, after such a historic election I was surprised she said nothing after election day. I thought she was being quite apolitical.

      As for coming around to DJT after being a Never Trumper, Im kinda surprised. Not just for all of the absurd junior high level stuff he has pulled but also because he is generally not an ideological conservative but to each his own.

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  4. Nia Says:

    Unrelated to politics, here’s what I think is happening:

    Some guys aren’t actually trying to get laid or go on dates. They are working out their anger, disappointment and aggression with life/women/ex-wives on dating sites.

    Some guys follow the flawed logic of “I would LOVE to be approached like this! It’s a compliment!”

    Some guys perceive something about the profile (the photos, the presentation, the text) that they feel gives them the “okay” to be sexual or crude. Or, sadly, they feel this woman is less-than-conventionally-hot and has fewer “options” as in a ‘take what is offered you/don’t look a gift dick in the mouth’ place

    Some guys have subpar IQ and EQ and can’t put 2 and 2 together. I had a Lyft driver who was very sweet but couldn’t understand why, if he didn’t make phone calls on a stolen phone, he was still liable. HE knew he didn’t do it! I explained it’s very difficult to prove something in the negative and he nodded, but it was clear he didn’t get it. So maybe these guys either
    Don’t think “Nothing sexier than…” is insulting or
    Don’t make the connection between their remarks and your unmatch
    Don’t understand the fine difference between a subtly sexy line and a “Hey, wanna F—?” type opener.

    Some guys also had GF’s or dates in the past who, while they likely didn’t LOVE it, tolerated it or did the cute giggle and ineffectual arm-slap “Brad! Stahp it!” because they were scared to lose a guy.

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  5. sandra Says:

    What in the world does politics have to do with any woman responding positively to crudely sexual online come-ons? The reasons a woman may respond to such men is either -naive-desperate-lonely-has low self worth-or thinks the guy is actually cute and she feels like it and she could fit anywhere on the political spectrum ( if she is political at all).
    The internet and OLD did not make idiotic men smart. It just makes them visible.

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  6. Ben Iyyar Says:

    Why? Why? Why all the stupid politics?! I come to this site because I find it helpful and largely enjoyable. Moxie generally gives good advice and has a lot of understanding and empathy, but I can find irrelevant and STUPID POLITICS damn near anywhere on the Internet! So please would you political people GIVE IT A REST!

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  7. Dark Sarcasm Says:

    I don’t advocate the straight on sexual innuendo, but the reality is, “Hey there. Looks like we matched. Enjoying your Sunday?” Gets NO response. I should know as I’ve matched with women on various sites for a while, and I’ve yet to get one response.

    Maybe these men figure saying something a little flirtier might get SOME kind of response.

    A better topic of convo might be what actually to say to get a response from a woman you’ve matched with

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    • Beta Male Says:

      I completely agree with Dark Sarcasm. Most online advice for men on how to craft opening messages veers towards Red Pill territory. There has to be some valid effective advice on how to craft opening messages that’s between “Hey” and “Let’s fuck.”

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      • Parenting Says:

        Flatter women. Tell them you think they are smart, interesting, impressive, have beautiful (not explicitly sexual) features – in essence talk to them like you admire them and see a future with them. Kinda hard to do with a conplete stranger but “its really impressive that you have an MBA from Rutgers” is going to get you a lot further than “hey sexy”.

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    • D. Says:

      Or, if there’s actual info in their profile, you could try personalizing the message.

      I mean, it doesn’t have to be either “Hello. I am intrigued about you, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter” or “Nice tits. Wanna fuck?” There’s a middle ground to be struck that goes nowhere near sexual stuff, but still is more personal than a generic “How’s your weekend going?”

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      • Dark Sarcasm Says:

        I get the responses to this thread, the whole ‘Your first message should be a hey how’s your weekend or talk about something in their profile or compliment them on their accomplishments, but what do you think men have been emailing women when this whole ‘online dating’ thing started? And those kinds of messages barely gets any responses. These brazen ‘dirty’ emails come from frustration and men coming upon a ‘red pill’ site for suggestions on what email to write to get a response. Now these men are taking it to the (unnecessary) extreme.

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        • fuzzilla Says:

          **These brazen ‘dirty’ emails come from frustration and men coming upon a ‘red pill’ site for suggestions on what email to write to get a response. Now these men are taking it to the (unnecessary) extreme.**

          I mean, I guess that’s understandable, but if venting your own bile is the only thing you expect to get from online dating…I think it’s time to a break. Just like I knew it was time to take a break when I was tempted to fill my profile with DON’T WRITE ME IF (you are anything like the last guy, in a nutshell).

          A polite, personalized message doesn’t guarantee success, but angry sexual bullshit guarantees failure.

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          • Beta Male Says:

            If you are resigned to failure then being rejected because you are being a jerk is easier to take than being rejected because you “showed interest in something in their profile.”

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            • fuzzilla Says:

              Or you could just…not. You could take yourself out of the game altogether and get your head together.

              When I was still doing online dating I took LOTS of breaks. I couldn’t understand people who did it for years and years nonstop because I’d really start to hate men after awhile, I’d just get so beat down and frustrated. When I knew I felt that way, I’d be like, “Yeah, maybe not such a cute look” and shut my profile off. But sure, you’re free to keep doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over, it’s a free country.

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              • Beta Male Says:

                I do take breaks and I do send out messages intermittently. If they respond fine, if they don’t that’s fine to but when it really gets frustrating I do take a break.

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    • DrivingMeNutes Says:

      You are all missing the point. There is no right methodology or trick to “get” a woman to respond. No magic words. People – men and women – don’t respond to online messages because they are either not REALLY interested or you said something that turned them off. Because of the latter (and because you can’t do anything about the former), I would recommend a very conservative initial message. Just “Hello, how are you?” without typos, abbreviations or emojis. If they can’t or won’t respond to a simple” hello,” they have their own issues and you should MOVE ON and not dwell on why they didn’t respond. Because, who cares.

      And yes, if you find yourself arguing with people on an online dating app or site, or trying to school them then you are doing it wrong. The only people that matter are the ones who are interested in you.

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      • K Says:

        This! Every guy who sends me a generic “hello how are you” gets a response if I like his pics and profiles. People are swiping fast and usually if they don’t respond they aren’t really looking or in my case I saw something in your profile that changed my mind. Recently I initiated a message with a guy, he wrote a nice response, but when I took a closer look at his profile I realized that I didn’t catch that he was married (or he later added it). I assume guys are just swiping on my first pic for the most part and only bother reading the profile or closely looking at pics after the first message.

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      • fuzzilla Says:

        Eh, I mean, most people aren’t supermodels where their pics and profile are guaranteed to get them a response. I always appreciated someone starting a conversation. “Oh, you also watch XYZ show – what’s your theory on who the killer is?” “What was the best (name of band) show you’ve ever seen?” If the other person doesn’t like your pics and profile, they still won’t respond, but a little effort might be enough to tip you in the “okay, I’ll give them a chance” direction. It’s not any more strenuous than small talk with your barber/hairdresser.

        But you definitely shouldn’t say gross sexual stuff nor should you think too hard about it. You don’t wanna be the person who gets all bitter about writing multiple heartfelt paragraphs to someone with zero interest.

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        • DrivingMeNutes Says:

          You can prefer whatever you want, but unless you are saying you would not return a initial “hello” to a person unless they are a supermodel then you haven’t responded or addressed the logic of my point. “Hello” is a perfectly socially acceptable greeting to someone you don’t know. Leave the oh-we-have-xyz-in-common for the second text.

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          • fuzzilla Says:

            My point isn’t that “hello” is a terrible strategy, I just think attempting to engage someone right away is a better strategy. If two equally attractive people wrote to me, the one who didn’t put the burden on me to start the conversation is the one I’d probably find more appealing.

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  8. Tron Swanson Says:

    Sorry for the late reply, but I’ve just now stumbled across this site.

    I’m a guy, and whenever I message a woman online, I always start off with a sexual comment. Why, you ask? Well, I’m not looking for anything serious, and it acts as a sort of screening trick. If the woman responds positively, I know I have a chance. If she doesn’t, I move on. It’s a real time-saver for me.

    Also, I don’t want to live a life where I have to censor myself all the time. This is just who I am, and it may hurt my chances, but I’ve found that I’m a lot happier being true to myself. I’m not going to pretend to be someone I’m not just to get women to like me.

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    • BTownGirl Says:

      Time-saver for you, gross and probably upsetting for many of the women you send them to. Because the women who signed up for whatever site you’re on should totally be subjected to that so you can be authentically you. Men like you are the reason I avoided online dating like the plague when I was single.

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      • Tron Swanson Says:

        When it comes to this stuff, there are only two sets of rules that we can play by: our own, or someone else’s. I choose to play by my own rules, and I advise you to play by your own rules, as well.

        I really like how you phrased that, btw. Especially the word “subjected.” Is that a new right that I didn’t hear about? The right of women to not be subjected to the attention of men that they don’t approve of? I’m sure it must be horrific, being noticed by men that don’t act exactly the way you want them to…

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        • BTownGirl Says:

          So do you walk up to women in person talking dirty? I’m guessing that’s a no, unless you actually are currently sporting an orange jumpsuit or nursing injuries resulting from being tossed out of every establishment you’ve ever tried it in. If you honestly don’t understand the difference between “showing interest” and “being a vile creep who doesn’t understand basic social rules”, go to therapy. Yes, people do have a right not to be talked dirty to without agreeing to it.

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          • Tron Swanson Says:

            If I could do that without creating any drama, yes, I absolutely would. But that isn’t the case, sadly.

            Where is this right “not to be talked dirty to without agreeing to it” enumerated, btw? I haven’t heard about any new laws or amendments passing, and it sounds like something that’d violate the first amendment. Also, it seems to me that women threw out the “basic social rules” they didn’t like, while keeping the ones they did. Surely men have the same prerogative…?

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            • BTownGirl Says:

              Ummmmm every person (of every gender) has a right to go about their business without anyone harassing them. Go get some therapy, for real. I mean, you won’t, and unfortunately for someone (not you) you’ll wind up doing something that lands you in trouble. Bone up on those PUA skills, I hear they’re a huge hit in jail.

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