If You Have To Chase Him, He’s Not Interested

Name: ANconfwoman
Comment: Hi,

Five years ago in college, I met a guy who I was very attracted to. He was very shy and quiet and it was hard to get to know him. Throughout the entire time we have known each other, we sent occasional text messages and hung out only a few times as friends. We were in relationships on and off and, quite frankly, did not know much about each other’s personal lives.

A few months ago, I messaged him to see how he was doing, and also wanted to get together to catch up. He responded around 11:00pm (hours after I had initiated a conversation) saying he has “always wanted me” but “never knew how to act around me”….And also that he always felt something was there.

He said “yes” to meeting up after I asked, and then bailed. And we made other plans, and bailed again. Disappeared. Please keep in mind, I was always the one initiating for months. Then, he finally said, “Look. I have a girlfriend. I always felt something was between us. I’m worried I’m going to screw something up and don’t think it’s a good idea for us to hang out. Maybe someday.”

Five days ago, I ran into him at an event. He spoke with me as if nothing was wrong. I actually apologized to him for texting to hang out so much knowing he has a girlfriend. I got a text from him (again, late at night around 12am) saying “I’m so glad to see you. I was nervous before but glad I saw you. I want to see you. Let’s meet up. Are you busy tomorrow night? I can meet you for a drink by your office. You looked really good. Sleep well.”

We said we would meet on Wednesday. Wednesday rolls around and I hadn’t heard from him. I texted him. HOURS later, he responded “I can’t today.”

I have texted him several times and called him once since. Have not heard back from him once. Please help. I really need advice.

Thank you for your thoughts.
Age: 24
City: New York City
State: NY

I’m not sure what there is to say here. He has a girlfriend. That explains why there are large gaps of time between your communications. He’s probably not alone. I’ll also guess that the texts that come in late at night probably occur after he’s been drinking. That explains his courage. Then, the next day when he’s sober, he realizes what he did and backs off.

He’s not really giving you mixed messages. His message is very clear: I am not available. When he said that he was worried that he might screw something up, I think he was referring to his relationship.  He’s trying to do the right thing, albeit poorly, by his girlfriend. You need to back off.

If he does ever cheat on her with you, he’ll regret it immediately and cut you off completely. You two aren’t star crossed lovers. You are not trying to help along fate’s design by pursuing him. This feels, to me, like maybe you looked him up one day because you’re currently single and looking for a boyfriend. Now, because he’s given you a tiny bit of attention,  you think you’re close to getting what you want and refuse to let go.

Let go.

You’re 24 years old. There is no shortage of men out there for you to chase around and beg to meet with you. Harsh? Sorry, but that’s what you’re doing.  You ran into him at an event? That’s convenient. I mean, maybe you did. I’m doubting that, though.You’re pestering him with texts, some to which he doesn’t even respond. Hon, time for you to grab some dignity and move on.

If you have to do this much work just to get a guy to meet up with you for a drink, he’s not interested. Forget about the fact that he replies to your texts and the things that he says. He’s being kind and a little self-serving. He likes the attention. He’s going to keep you around for when he eventually dumps his girlfriend. And then he’s probably going to do the same thing with another woman.

You’re never going to have this guy. Not completely. So why bother?

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How Long Is Too Long To Make a Guy Wait For Sex?

Name: Danielle
Age: 26
State: Florida
Question: Hi,

I’m a little confused about a guy’s behavior and would love another opinion. We met via an online dating website last May. I had recently ended a relationship of 9 months and really wasn’t looking to start dating again. However, when this guy asked me to grab coffee I thought, why not? I always like to meet new people. Towards the end of my previous relationship I had made a list of must haves because I had realized that recent people I was seeing were not good for my happiness in a relationship or didn’t have long term potential. Basically I wanted to raise the bar. After chatting with this guy for a few hours I realized that based on things he was saying (goals, plans, family) he was the first person I had ever gone out with that hit all the criteria. However, I was still skeptical because I didn’t want to have a rebound relationship or jump into things too fast. He told me on our second date that I was everything on his “list” and asked me on the third date if it was too soon to ask me to be his girlfriend. I said yes and he non-chalantly said that he would ask me again in the future. Long story short, we started dating and he was the epitome of a gentleman (walking on the outside of the street, holding doors, refusing to let me pay even though I wanted to). He was very sweet, a great listener, etc. He didn’t have a car at the time because it was being shipped from his previous residence a few states away so I drove us places and was perfectly fine with that. One day at brunch he was teasing me about something and I jokingly said that I should just leave him there. Later in the day his attitude kind of changed and he told me that it upset him that I said that (apparently I had made a similar joke another time) because he really didn’t feel like he could date the way he wanted to without a car. I assured him that it didn’t bother me that I was driving us around, but it still upset him. I’m guessing he felt emasculated. Well he started getting flaky and disappeared on me after another 2 weeks. We had been going on 2-3 dates a week for 6 weeks before this happened. Notably, we did not sleep together while dating because I wanted to be sure. The only time we came close was the night before the brunch incident and he didn’t have a condom so it was a no go.

Fast forward to September, he reached out to me again to see how I was. I initially ignored him because despite the length of our “relationship” I had gotten pretty attached to him over the summer and was hurt when he disappeared with no explanation. He kept in touch, saying he wanted to hang out which we eventually did in December. I was very skeptical about the whole thing because he was still being kind of flaky. The first thing he said when we met up was that he was sorry for being a jerk over the summer and I didn’t deserve it. I told him I appreciated the apology and we watched a movie at my place. Since January we’ve hung out once a week, either going to a movie, meeting up at a bar, dinner, playing tennis, etc. Since we started hanging out again, he hugs me and kisses me on the cheek, but there’s been no moves to go further.  Two weeks ago, he and a friend showed up at a club that I mentioned my friends and I would be at. His friend got bored so they went somewhere else and then came back towards the end of the night. He gave me his jacket and they walked me to my car. He hugged me for a pretty long time and then kissed the corner of my mouth saying he’d call me later. I haven’t heard from him since. My instincts say that I should just let this thing go. I would only want to start something with him if he can be consistent which he isn’t doing. Just wanted to get your thoughts about why he would show up again and then disappear.

Thanks!
Danielle

 

As I’ve always said, when someone is in a rush to commit there is typically a reason. Combine that with the fact that this guy endured a dozen plus dates with no sex and committed to you without having sex and I’m sure you’ll agree that something is off here.   You two may have hit it off as friends, but to be honest I don’t really sense that you two had much more than that. This was reminiscent of relationships we had in high school.

The no condom excuse is bullshit. There’s a CVS’/Duane Reade/Walmart/Bodega on every couple of blocks pretty much everywhere. If you wanted to have sex you would have gone and gotten some. Or you would have had them on hand. Or..shocker…you’d have done it anyway. Oh yes ,I know, that’s just for sluts. People who cry “no condom!” are people who never had intention of having sex in the first place.

There is the possibility that he just got tired of waiting for you to be ready to have sex. Maybe he didn’t appreciate the comment about leaving him at the brunch spot because he felt like he had been really respectful and patient and you didn’t seem to notice or appreciate that. I’m speculating,of course. I don’t have enough info to say for sure that this is the case. Whatever the reason may be, I think he was already on the defensive.  I agree that he probably felt emasculated to some degree, but the lack of sex definitely contributed to that.

It’s important to realize that a lot of men in a dating situation such as yours see sex as a gesture of attraction and appreciation. I’m guessing he disappeared because there was still no sex, and he was confused as to what exactly it is that you wanted. That and he sounds immature and maybe even inexperienced when it comes to relationships.

If you really want to know what happened then you should ask him. It sounds like the two of you have certain narratives in your head but neither of you expressed those narratives or intentions.

 

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Beware The Man Who Was Burned By His Ex

Name: Peter
Age: 28
State:
Question: The last post in regards to single vs divorced is the impetus for this letter.  I am currently separated from my wife and required to live apart for 1 full year before filing for divorce in my state with 6 months down and 6 more to go.

I have listed myself as divorced on my online profiles versus separated as there is zero chance of reconciliation, although I remain legally married.  We have a separation agreement, so our assets are settled and all that is left is a court date in 6 months to tell the judge we’re done.

My problem is that being 20-something and divorced carries a stigma.  I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage.  I told her to cancel the ticket and move out or she could fly out to see the guy with the expectation of me not being here when she got back, so she moved out and cancelled the ticket last minute, keeping her options open.  A month later, she asked for a divorce, rebooked her plane ticket, and ended up moving in with the guy several states away just a few weeks later.  I found her journal on the computer when I was sorting through backup files and figuring out what files I needed to get back to her and found out before we got married she cheated on ex-boyfriends, tried to break up engaged couples, and basically fell in love with every man she ever met and manipulated them for her personal gain.  It turned out everything was an elaborate front and the woman I married never existed.

The bottom line is I was a victim in my marriage/divorce.  Before I found out she wasn’t the person she claimed to be, I told my ex-wife I’d quit my job, quit grad school, go to counseling, and do whatever else it took to save our marriage, but it was all for nothing if she wasn’t willing to put forth the effort since I couldn’t save our marriage on my own.  She told me not to do any of the above and gave up on me, which in hindsight was a good thing after finding her journal.

I live in the Bible Belt/South and the type of women I want to attract are those with strong values as my ex-wife turned out to not have any values at all.  This typically means a woman who is religious or politically conservative (of which my ex-wife was neither), which I have no problem with, but I carry the divorced stigma and get judged negatively despite the fact I was willing to give up everything to make my marriage work.  My parents are divorced and a “family history of divorce” seems to also be a red flag with  women also.

Beyond the divorce stigma, I’m a catch: I’m good looking, work out regularly, earn six figures, own a house, finish grad school in May, and I’m obviously not afraid of monogamy or commitment.  I realize that everyone my age has baggage and the key difference is how people have managed their baggage.  The only thing scarier than a man with a past is a man with no past. I don’t want to tick the box as never married and be deceptive and I don’t think it is appropriate to go into divorce details on a dating profile, but it sure would be nice if the women who weren’t emailing me back because I ticked the divorce box knew the reasons behind it without sounding like a vindictive crazy man.  If I would have had a church wedding, I’d have grounds for an annulment and would have never been married in the eyes of a church and could claim never married with an asterisk. What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

 

Here’s my question:

Do you want to date or do you want to bitch? Because it sounds like you just want to bitch. I’m not sure you should be dating at all at this juncture because you’re clearly not any where near past what your ex-wife did. This wasn’t really a letter seeking advice. You just wanted to vent. Which, I’ll tell you now, is unattractive. It’s unattractive in women and it’s unattractive in men. I understand that what she did was selfish, thoughtless and hurtful. I do and I’m sorry. But this woman didn’t become a shrew overnight. Nor did she hide it, as so many people like to say happens when they wake up one day and realize they dated an asshole. These people aren’t the cunning and calculated sociopaths we like to tell people they are. We refer to them as such because that’s a much easier pill to swallow than admit we were just blind or needy or lonely or desperate. And because it removes all responsibility from us for why we chose them.  She always was who she was. You just chose to ignore it.

Sweetheart, you’re wife picked you for a reason. Yep. She carried on affairs and manipulated you behind your back. Do you know why? Because she knew you’d either never catch on or you’d ignore it and let her do what she wanted because you feared losing her.

I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage. 

Do you understand that by doing this she was telling you she couldn’t have cared less how you felt? No matter what you said, she was going to do what she wanted to do. I guess what I’m wondering is how you fell for this girl in the first place.  You need to figure out why you married this woman or else you’re doomed to repeat this mistake.

As for the rest of your letter, TL/DR. I mean, I read it. You’re so stuck in victim mode that it was struggle to get through it. I’m guessing that this is just who you are: a professional victim. You’re whining about stigmas and your selfish ex-wife and society. People who adopt a victim mentality tend to get victimized. That’s how it works.

What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

Well, the first thing they do is to swear never to say “liar liar pants on fire” again.  This isn’t about online dating and being divorced with an asterisk. What can you do? You can stop feeling sorry for yourself, take responsibility for choosing poorly, find out why you were attracted to your ex-wife and fix the problem. There you go. Boom goes the dynamite.

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How To Maintain Your Dignity After Being Rejected or Embarrassing Yourself On a Date

Moxie,

In tonight’s post you said

“The rejection stung, of course, especially since I wasn’t allowed the courtesy to process that privately.”

What do you do when someone rejects you on a date? I’ve had this happen a couple of times and I never know the right way to handle this. Do I excuse myself from the date and leave or do I stick it out?

I’ve also been on the other side of this. How do you suggest people reject someone if there’s no chemistry or if they express interest in another date when you know you’re not interested?

On a similar but different note,  how do you get past an embarrassing situation? I went on a date a couple weeks ago and ended up having a reaction from a medication I’m taking. I hadn’t properly spaced my medication with my alcohol intake and ended up getting really tired and hard to understand. My date offered to call 911 but I said no. He got in a cab with me and saw me home. I never heard from him again. Should I reach out to him?

Thank you,

E. – NYC – 36 -  Female

 

As I said in that post, what made the rejection painful wasn’t the rejection itself. It was the fact that I had been blindsided with it after 2 hours of conversation that included all kinds of compliments combined with the utterly disingenuous nature of the rejection. Really? I was everything you were looking for but I was just too much your equal and on your level to date? Okay. That makes sense. How stupid do I look?

The thing to do in a situation like that, where someone is rejecting you, is to just smile and nod and say, “Okay.” If they try to get you to stick around to finish your drink or have another, explain that you appreciate the gesture but prefer to leave. In most cases, they’re praying that you say that. You don’t have to sit there and pretend to be unaffected. You were just rejected. That’s an uncomfortable situation. You’re allowed to want to remove yourself. Often times those who make such an offer don’t want to deal with people seeing them left at a table sitting by themselves. If they try to coax you back to the conversation, don’t give in. They just want to feel better about what they did and don’t want to be left there looking stupid. Excuse yourself and leave and be done with it.

If you’re the one doing the rejecting, remember these tips:

1. If you know immediately that there’s no spark or attraction, clip that date as soon as you can within reason. Say 45 minutes. You don’t have to say that you’re not feeling a click. You can say you made other plans. The other person should be able to take the hint. If they don’t and suggest another date, tell them to email you later and you guys can talk about it. If you want to rip that band aid off right then, you can. Just be kind and tell them you enjoyed meeting them but you didn’t think you were a match. What you want to show is that you’re being considerate of their time and feelings.  And ladies, if you know you’re not interested, offer to pay your share of the tab. Just do it.Don’t be an asshole.

2. If you’re not attracted to them, keep that fact to yourself. You can say anything else: no chemistry, not much in common, etc. But do not tell them you’re not attracted to them. It’s just bad form and a little cruel. Good for you that you’re so direct and honest. If it’s not paired with tact and compassion you’re just a thoughtless and arrogant idiot. Personally, I think this reason is a catch all for deeper reasons why they aren’t interested. I think more often than not it’s used to cap the conversation and prevent further discussion. Attraction isn’t something people have to defend. It’s either there or it’s not. Like I said a few weeks ago, this kind of honesty is used as a weapon or a shield. Someone who would tell you this is a walking liability, so breathe a sigh of relief that things didn’t go further.

3. Respond to their follow up request in a timely fashion. The longer you wait to respond, the worse it will be for them and for you. The goal in these situations is to be humane. Tell them that, after the date, you did some thinking and you realized that you and they probably weren’t compatible. Never, ever admit that you knew you were going to rejection at the time that you said to follow up with them about discussing another date. If they don’t realize that you were not just trying to prevent any Awkward for yourself but for them, that’s on them.

4.If you know you did something that might have hurt their feelings, cop to it. If they send you a terse message or lash out at you, really ask yourself if you did anything to contribute to that. If you did, own it and be an adult. And please, spare them the passive aggressive, ‘You know, you really didn’t handle that well HOWEVER…” No however. Just admit where you messed up and be done with it. Don’t be some passive aggressive douche.

If you’re on the receiving end of such a rejection, keep these points in mind:

1. Allow someone to be polite.  If they say they made other plans, let them go. If they say they weren’t feeling it, let them go.

2. Don’t send multiple follow up messages. They got your first one.  If they don’t respond, they’re either trying to be kind hoping you’ll get the hint/will drop it or are just not a nice person.

3. If you ask for a further explanation, be prepared to hear something you don’t want to hear. This is self-explanatory. Trust me. You don’t want to know the real reason. If they’re especially defensive or lacking in social graces, they will tell you bluntly what the deal is just so you won’t push them further or try to debate them.

4. Don’t expect them to actually be friends with you. When someone in this situation offers or agrees to friendship, don’t get your hopes up. Again, they’re being polite. They really don’t want to be your friend. They just don’t want you to dislike them. If you follow up with invites and emails,9 times out of 10 they’ll make up an excuse why you can’t hang out or will ignore you.

5. Ladies, don’t ever, ever do this. If a guy turns you down for a date or a hook up, walk away. Sending them naked pics or a video of you getting off in a bathroom stall makes you look a) unstable and b) desperate.  No, when he replied and told you how sexy that was or how he’s rather hold on to the friendship/maintain a business contact, he wasn’t being honest. He was being polite. If he wanted to have sex with you, he would.  There’s no such thing as a woman being too cool/smart/awesome to sleep with in a man’s book. Women love to reassure each other that the men in these scenarios totally respects them or cares for them or whatnot. That is said so you will turn around and do something equally as jaw dropping and they’ll feel less ashamed. Don’t fall for it.

Now for the second question. If you feel you did something wrong, offensive or inappropriate then the right thing to do is apologize.  He probably didn’t know what to say after that experience. It wouldn’t hurt for you to break the ice and follow up and explain what happened. It might be too late or be something he can’t get past. I think it all depends how the rest of the date went and how you handle the apology. Remember that what you reveal could be held against you. If you were on anti-depressants, keep that to yourself. Say that you took a Benedryl for an allergy and had thought enough time had passed between when you took it and when you started drinking. Keep the explanation short and vague. Tell him you’d like to give it another try if he’s willing. If he’s not, just move on. If this is something that has happened before then you need to check yourself. That is NOT something that should happen more than once.  There’s just no excuse for it.

 

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Your New Dating Mantra: Absolutely No Regrets

Name: PJ
State: NY
Age: 62
Story: Dear Moxie,

I love reading your blog and always get something to think about and question my dating behavior.

I’m  in my early 60s having been married for over 25 years, but now a widow for the last 10.  During that time I dated relentlessly, probably over 300 guys, some of which did turn into short term relationships.  (3 to 6 months), with the exception of my last boyfriend.  When we met he showered me with lots of attention, went to a lot of places, concerts, dinners, movies and family get meetings.  After  6 months of dating I moved in with him, we had been seeing each other almost every night as it was, with me staying over.

He then informed me that he was going back to school, he is 20 years younger, to get his PhD, at first I was a little put off, because I really wanted a companion to do things with, maybe even travel, I know unrealistic expectations, has always been my Achilles’s heel.  But after dating so many men and not making a connection I thought I should be more supportive…At first it wasn’t too bad since the program wasn’t hard for him, but in the second year he began staying overnight at Lab {studying to be an organic chemist)  I was seeing him less and less. Things began getting strained with his temper flaring up at little things, he is super neat, and I am like Oscar Madison …he would yell “get out”, and then I saw he was writing emails to women on  dating sites.

At first I thought he was just looking for attention,  he is a Leo, they seem to crave attention, but then I found that he had gone out with someone and other signs,  pictures of him and her etc.  I moved out in February after two years,, I had kept my own apartment with the help of roommates.  I was hurt by the betrayal and vowed not to have contact with him.  But
he wrote me constantly, saying how sorry he was that he wasn’t sleeping with the other woman that she was just a friend, and that he doesn’t see her anymore.

Being an optimist and more of a romance addict, I started seeing him again, and spending nights at his place.  I remember your comment when you wrote OK Cupid that they should have a section where one can find more local guys.  This guy lives 20 blocks from me, 99% of the guys that write me are from other states or boroughs.  I’ve tried to have an open mind about dating out of townees, but seeing someone in Manhattan is so much easier.  I’ve tried to meet guys from here but they don’t seem to respond, I guess they are much more independent living in the city.

There are two guys that I have seen, one is older 73, who is dating another woman, but he constantly calls me, haven’t slept together, and so far we have had 5 dates,  due to meet next week.  He is easy to talk to and a recent divorcee, he says that the woman he is dating doesn’t want anything serious and that bothers him.  There is another guy 55 who has been writing me, he is in London on a business trip, we haven’t met yet, but he sends great emails, and we talk sometimes on the phone, hopefully he is really interested in dating, there are so many guys that  just turn out to be pen pals..

So my question is, since I’m still sleeping with my old boyfriend,  whom I see once a week or so; he does makes lavish dinners, or sometimes we go to the movies, but then I don’t hear from him for days on end.  He says he can’t sleep with anyone else that he doesn’t want to meet women, and that I am his destiny??…He has never been married or in a relationship longer than 2 years, which  is usually a red flag…Am I just deluding myself?  Is sleeping with him keeping me from moving on to a more sincere relationship..You have a much more practical view on things, would love your feedback.
City: New York

 

.Am I just deluding myself? 

Yes. Yes you are. For starters, this guy is a leech. I said it the last time you wrote in about him and I’ll say it again. No man in his forties is genuinely interested in dating a woman in her sixties. No how, no way. You wanted practical advice? There. Boom goes the dynamite.

Next? He totally was cheating on you. And he’s still sleeping with other women. Again, unless he has some senior fetish, he’s not so captivated by sex with you that he can’t imagine putting his penis in a younger vagina. Not happening. If he doesn’t have a fetish or a Mommy fixation, he’s angling to be remembered in your will or something similar. No kids? No husband? Yeah, that sounds about right.

I’m sorry to be so abrasive here, but you’re 62 years old. You’re just too old to be this simple-minded. Look at your life right now: 62 and living with roommates dating some dude 20 years your junior who probably cons lonely older women out of cash. Is this what you wanted for yourself?

I was reading a blog the other day. The author was around my age and lives in NYC. Like the OP, she had literally hundreds and hundreds of online dates in her late thirties. I think she once quoted the count at about 400 or 500. Two years later, she’s STILL writing posts about the guys who did her wrong once upon a time and how she’s become so cautious and suspicious because of those experiences. Underneath the bravado the regret and sadness pokes through, like a broken bone that has torn through flesh . All those chances. All those opportunities. Wasted. All because she was stuck in the past and refused to acknowledge why things were the way they were. Maybe she’s happy. I don’t know. I just know that when I read her blog, I wonder if she ever looks back and wonders what might have been. I can’t imagine a worse fate. Especially when all of those experiences and thoughts and choices were documented and witnessed by a bunch of strangers.

Yes, sleeping with this guy is preventing you from meeting other more appropriate men. Between your reliance on astrological signs and your over all naivete, I’m guessing you’re not one for critical thinking and common sense.It’s never too late for that, PJ. You still have quite a bit of time ahead of you. Start now so you can create the life you want, free of remorse.

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Can You Ever *Really* Unravel The Mystery of Why Someone Dumped You?

Name: Westley in SF
Age: 36
State:
Question: Six years ago, I dated and eventually got engaged to the love of my life. Five and a half years ago, the engagement ended with her mailing the ring back, and we haven’t spoken since. I’ve tried, I’ve emailed, called, texted, written, pleaded, begged, but she won’t see me and won’t talk to me, although she does email and respond to me.

The post isn’t about her though. I’m just giving you some background. The point is that I’ve never had any closure and honestly haven’t been able to emotionally move on.

That’s not to say I haven’t tried, I have. I date often and since the breakup, I have honestly been crushing it. Women seem are really attracted to the slightly older, heartbroken bachelor, especially girls in their 20s (I call it being Hank Moody). I have dated casually and I’ve dated seriously. I am a great boyfriend, I know what to do, but all too often it feels like I am going through the motions. The spark isn’t there, I’m doing things, like sending flowers or leaving notes to find, because I know they are what women want, not because I’m impassioned about them. I even lived with one girlfriend, in an attempt at settling down, but that didn’t work.

Since then I’ve had a different opinion of dating… I meet a lot of amazing women — gorgeous, smart, successful, funny, fun, etc — and I enjoy their company, but I find that I don’t actually want to date any of these women. I don’t want to go through the end of a failed relationship with them, I’d rather be friends with them. Instead I date girls, sorry how this sounds, that are beneath me in education, career, socio-economic status, and the such. They’re good girls too, but I only date the ones I am comfortable excising completely from my life.

I guess I wanted to know if this is normal, being unable to move on and being resigned to a life of permanent bachelorhood. Should I be honest with one of these amazing women that I’m an emotional cripple? Or should I keep silent as I keep dating, hoping that I might eventually find someone who can help me move on? Or am I a particularly pathetic case of a broken heart?

Your ability to attach and detach seems to have been seriously affected by your broken engagement. I don’t know if it’s closure that you’re looking for, because we can give that to ourselves if we choose to. Something about how she ended things has taken a huge chunk from your ego and self-esteem. The only way to get it back is to rebuild it yourself, I’m afraid.

That’s the basis of most people’s need for closure. We don’t really want answers or to know why things ended. The why doesn’t really matter. What we want is to believe that the other person cared enough to acknowledge our hurt and pain. I’d guess that in the majority of cases, those of us who have sought closure at some point weren’t even given the truth. We were told what we wanted to hear because the other person wanted to unburden themselves in some way. Either they no longer wished to deal with us, no longer wanted to fear repercussions or just wanted to get rid of their own guilty conscience. Extending the olive branch, so to speak, is for their benefit. Not ours. It’s disingenuous. I honestly believe that, only in the rarest of cases, do we get the truth. And you know what? I would almost guarantee we wouldn’t want it anyway. That’s why the idea of closure is a myth. It doesn’t really exist.

Is what you’re experiencing “normal?” No. But it is common and even typical, especially when someone was excised the way it seems you were. It sounds like it was sudden and rather cold. To be frank, if I’m following the timeline correctly, this whole thing sounds impulsive and rushed. That makes me wonder if maybe there aren’t deeper issues going on here. Like maybe you get attached too quickly, thereby making it harder to detach?  To get engaged and then un-engaged in six months implies that the relationship itself wasn’t all that strong to begin with. As an aside, I find engagements that happen after a year or less to be questionable, but that’s me.

Mailing someone’s engagement ring back to them and refusing to see them sounds odd. Usually, the woman keeps the ring or has the decency to return it in person. If she’s not willing to face you and give that ring back, it makes me think she feels a tremendous amount of guilt about something. Now you’re trying to unravel the mystery of what really happened. That would explain your need for closure. There’s a piece to the puzzle that’s missing and you can’t move on without it.

I think you want to know whether she ever cared for you at all. The problem with asking a question like this is that you don’t want the truth here. Nor are you likely to get it. She’ll hide behind plausible deniability. She’ll never admit the truth.  Ergo, your pursuit of closure might be pointless. I think you need to accept that. Doing so might allow you to start healing enough to find something substantive and healthy.

Like I said, beyond what I’ve shared I don’t think I’m qualified to address your concern too deeply. This sounds like something you need to work through with a professional, if only to give you a second pair of eyes to help you uncover that last puzzle piece. You probably have it already. You just need someone to help you find it.

 

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How Far Will A Man Go To Avoid Being The Bad Guy?

Name: jennifer
Age: 29
State: mi
Question: I meet a young man in June, we hit it off really well. A few weeks past of us hanging out constantly and so I finally “gave myself to him”. July passed every thing was great, I got pregnant(oops) and lost the baby at 7 weeks. Pretty much since I lost the baby my boyfriend has become distant, in the last few days hes been just telling me the things I wanna here, has nothing going on except taking care of his sibling and has not called or came over. He says I love you, tells me I have to be strong because of circumstances. My question is is this his way of saying he had his fun its over?

 

I would think so, yes. He’s in a no win situation. You and he got pregnant after dating barely 2 months. He likely never intended for things to get serious. Now he has to to stick it out for a period of time so that he won’t look totally heartless.

There was a letter a couple months ago from a guy who met a girl online, took her out once, had unprotected sex with her and got her pregnant. He did what it sounds like your guy is doing. He stuck around for a couple weeks until she got the abortion, gave it about another week and then broke up with her. He was going to end things anyway, but then she revealed she was pregnant. Now he’s stuck. No matter when he broke things off, he’d still always be the guy who got her pregnant and then dumped her.And when he did end things – a week after her procedure – you can be sure she immediately threw that abortion in his face. That was a last ditch effort to try and guilt him into staying with her. He did everything he could to prevent things from escalating and tried to answer every question she asked. Including the toughest question:

“But whhhyyyyyyy?”

The answer was simple. He said he didn’t see any kind of future with her and that he was going to end things earlier, but he waited due to her pregnancy and because he wanted to do the right thing. When she pulled out the “but you got me pregnant” card a second time, he told her exactly what I instructed him to tell her. He said, “Well, I don’t really know that for a fact, do I? If you slept with me without a condom on the first date, it’s not a far stretch to assume you’ve done it with others. I could have just walked away from you and I didn’t.” And like I predicted, that shut her right up. As usual, women get the truth that they say they crave, and then realize they didn’t really want it.

What men fear most about being honest with women is that they know, regardless of what they say, most women will hear what they want and likely hate them any way. Be honest and the woman will accuse them of leading them on for their own benefit.  Lie and the woman will probably still think they’re being deceptive in some way. That’s why many men avoid these tricky conversations all together. Cowardly? In some cases. But in most, the men know that they still will be branded an asshole. They take the hit regardless. They pray the woman will take the hint and go away quietly. And frankly, she should. Insisting upon an explanation is merely our ego talking. We must be acknowledged. It’s not enough to walk away with dignity. We need that acknowledgement to reassure us that we meant something to that man, even though we’re probably not even getting the truth.

Your guy is trying to detach from you as painlessly as possible. So let him. You knew the answer to the question before you hit Submit on the form.

 

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A Crash Course in Dating Red Flags

Since we’re on a bit of a Red flag Roll, here’s another blog post I read this morning that is FULL of them. Single Dating Diva has been gracious enough to let me deconstruct it. She’s not going to curl up in the fetal position and cry in the corner and run to twitter and tell everyone about her omigod “haters” and lock up her tweets. She’s got guts, so let’s keep that in mind when we’re commenting.

Okay. Read the story here first.

Ready? Okay.

So my “friend” and I have been friends for a while.  We met as colleagues but he was in the land of far far away and I was here in Canada.

Now, I’m going to take this to mean that they never actually met. SDD has confirmed this. By the time this all went down, they had known each other via work for a little over a year. The “romantic” development began the spring of this year.

We have been through various ups and downs together, as friends.  We’ve been there for each other through some of our hardest challenges.  This brought us closer together and created a very trusting and loving relationship….  It was great, since we had the solid friendship base it was an easy transition into romance.  There was love there already.

As we discussed yesterday, many women have a tendency to idealize relationships and dynamics. Their FWBs are “good friends” who “respect and care for them.” Reality? They’re just guy who don’t treat them poorly.  There’s no tangible or hard evidence proving this alleged loyalty and respect. It’s all in the woman’s mind. That’s especially easy to do when you have no first hand, in person experience dealing with someone. So, while SDD believes that they have been through ups and downs, she doesn’t know him well enough to have a baseline of his behavior. Establishing that takes time. It also takes face to face interaction. A lot of it. This bond that she and this friend of hers developed likely didn’t actually exist to the depths she believes it did.

We also decided not to mention it to any of our other colleagues so as to not create a weird situation in case it didn’t work out.  Actually, I didn’t really mind telling people, but he was adamant we didn’t.

Bam. There’s the first real red flag. Why was he “adamant” that she not tell anyone?

All was great and, he being the type to “shout it from the rooftops” that he was in love, he did.  But he didn’t mention any names.  He wrote publicly that he had met someone very special and only had eyes for her.  No one really asked who it was…I was asked by one of our colleagues and was forced by him to lie (sorry!).

And there’s the next red flag. So, he’s adamant that she not tell anyone, but he runs to Facebook and announces it? Inconsistency. Plus, the announcement was vague. No names. That’s convenient.  When men make public declarations like this, usually if not exclusively it is for the benefit of the woman he’s dating. Guys don’t typically get all mushy in public. In private? Sure. But not in public. If he does it in public it’s because he’s trying to prove something to the woman he’s dating or someone else.  Finally, nobody asked him who the lucky lass was. Know why? They probably already knew. Or they didn’t care, as this guy has a habit of falling in and out of love.

The reasons why a man will ask a woman to hide something are that he’s either very private, embarrassed by something about the relationship OR he’s being dishonest in some way. Since he ran to Facebook and announced this, the “very private” excuse doesn’t cut it.

He would call me his “missus”, he sent me love songs, talked about the future, even talked about buying furniture together for one of his homes.  So he booked his flight here to visit and when the day came for him to come he was so excited, sent me several text messages and then he had problems getting on the flight.  So he supposedly spent the entire weekend looking for a way to get here “because I was worth all the hardship and trouble” he said.  He wasn’t successful.

See, this sort of behavior feels really childish. Especially the effusive compliments. I’ll take Spring to mean May or June. So then they’ve basically been flirting for 3 months. Maybe 2. Somebody talking about buying furniture with you after dating 3 months, let alone”dating,” should raise that red flag. We don’t know exactly what was said. He could have made a joking reference to needing her help shopping for a couch. Who knows? In any case, 3 months of non-in person interaction is not nearly enough time to have such conversations. I don’t care what anybody says. When I hear these stories of people meeting over the internet and never meeting for a year but falling in love, I roll my eyes. Something is off about that. It might work, of course. But only because the two people are of the same emotional/social maturity level.

So he cancels this trip that he was super excited to take. Hmmm…red flag.  Then he evades her for the next few days. That, my friends, is when her internal warning system went off.

But instead of just dropping him and letting him show her if he was being genuine, SDD decided to “trap” him in his lies. Which, for future reference  ,is a giant waste of energy and time. This is something women do because it makes it seem like they are taking control of the situation. Except they’re not. They’re hoping against hope that they haven’t been duped.

The next day he sent me a message that someone very close to him was very ill and in the hospital.  So he couldn’t talk.   Each day that went by, I was more and more patient.  But he started speaking to me less and less.   Even responses to my emails were becoming a rare treat.    He said it was because he was spending all his time at the hospital with this person who was ill who the doctor’s gave a negative prognosis.  I tried to be loving and supportive and told him I would fly there to be with him even if that meant I was sitting in a hospital all day.  I didn’t care.  That’s what you do for your friends and those you love without thinking twice.

No. That’s what you do for someone you actually know because you’ve met them in person. This is how women get scammed online. They believe the unbelievable. We’ve all been there. I’ve been there.  When all the pieces fall together, it’s  a punch to the gut.

A few days after that, I was online and saw pictures of one of our other colleagues (who was even further away from him geographically than I was).  So I looked through the pictures and saw him in one of the pictures with her. Hmm, I thought, that’s strange, he was spending day and night at the hospital with this ill person.  So I sent him a message asking him if she was in the land of far far away and that I saw him with her.  His prompt reply was that she was there for “business” and promised he would take her for lunch and that I should “not panic”.

This is why I say that trying to “catch” someone in a lie is a waste of time. They’re just going to lie, and you’re going to believe them because you want to. If you were ready to not believe what they say, you’d have ditched them by now. That’s why you don’t ask leading questions. When you find yourself at that point, you just leave. She had photographic evidence that he was out and about at a time when he said he was stressed out by a sick loved one. Case closed.

The reveal? He was dating someone else who lived out of town. Shocker.

But a couple of days later, I woke up in the middle of the night and I felt the urge to go check the other woman’s account.  So I did.  Lo and behold pictures of them together doing various activities looking quite happy together.

Annnnd….scene.

Funny thing is that if he had been honest from the start with me we could have at the very least salvaged the friendship.

If SDD took anything from this situation, it should be that there was never a friendship to begin with.

 

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Are You His Recycled Relationship?

Name: Peaches
Age: 35
State: NYC
Question: Moxie,
I met “Matt” seven months ago at a bar. We exchanged numbers and went on our first date the following day.  From the beginning we texted all day everyday.  Our dates consisted of dinner and/or drinks and I’d spend the night (we slept together on our third date). We dated for three months and things just faded.  At the time I wanted an exclusive relationship with him but did not want to upset the balance of the relationship so I said nothing (you may read that as ‘something is better than nothing’ as I was too nervous/apprehensive to state my feelings which is my issue not his).

Out of the blue he texts me that he’s “thought about me a bunch,” that I’m “smart, funny and vibrant, and that he never told me that in person,” and “now felt like the right time to tell me.” He asked why things ended and I said it was lack of communication on both sides. Things seemingly picked up where we left off and we started texting everday all day. We recently met for drinks and I spent the night.

“Matt” possesses many of the qualities I seek. The one down side is that he is an avowed bachelor (he’s 38) and does not plan to marry. He’s had several LTRs the longest being 7 years. Of course I don’t know if I would marry him as we haven’t spent nearly enough time together for me to know but I find it a bit disconcerting that, for him, the option is off the table. I knew this about him the last time we dated but brushed it aside. This time around it’s in my fore thoughts.

After reconnecting with him again I find myself in the same position. I’d like this not to be a casual sexual relationship but an  exclusive relationship. So my question is do you think it’s worth pursuing to see if “Matt” would be interested in a relationship? If he was interested wouldn’t he have pursed more with me or since he’s getting sex he has all that he wants? Since we are not in a committed relationship I still actively date so should I continue dating others and see Matt without letting him know that I’m interested in more? Your advice has always been spot on and I look forward to your opinion again. Thanks, Peaches

 

I’d like this not to be a casual sexual relationship but an  exclusive relationship.

Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen. Matt is not interested in a serious relationship with you. It’s still a relationship. It’s just not one headed towards long term commitment. That doesn’t mean that what he said about you being vibrant and all that wasn’t true. I’m sure he meant that. But let’s face it…he said it to get into your pants. He recycled you. He probably had no options on the horizons so he reached out.

He asked why things ended and I said it was lack of communication on both sides.

He knows why things ended. Like you said, the relationship faded. If he wanted to save the relationship, he would have spoken up and asked why things had changed. He didn’t. He let it slide off into the abyss. He’s playing stupid. Guys typically don’t have those wistful moments of nostalgia and melancholy like the kind expressed in his message. The next time a guy does this – meaning asks what happened – ask yourself why he’s asking at that moment but he didn’t ask when the relationship was still in play.

He, like you, knows what you want. He knows that you want commitment. That’s why he was sure to tell you that he was an avowed bachelor. He didn’t reveal that to you to bond with you. He intended for that to be a disclaimer. In his mind, if you continued to date him, that means that you accepted him on his terms. No further discussion would be warranted.

You know what you can expect from him – consistent companionship and sex. So take advantage of that while you seek out something closer to what you’re looking for. It’s easy to detach from men like this, especially once you accept the reality of the situation. So do that, keep dating him and exercise your options.

 

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Why Taking Revenge On An Ex Is a Waste

I was reading this post yesterday and had a case of deja vu.

Listen. Many of us have been there. We’ve been involved with someone that we knew in our gut were being disingenuous. But we stuck it out, hoping against hope we were wrong. We weren’t. We discussed this briefly in last weeks post about emotional grifters.  The shame we feel for being suckered almost overpowers us at times.

Anyhoo, the whole revenge angle – while extremely tempting – is a huge waste of energy. You know why?

Because they don’t care.

I was watching a TV special on MSNBC this weekend about online dating. One of the singles they interviewed was a woman who said she met a guy online and he told her that they were in a relationship. Eventually she learned he was dating multiple people. Instead of just walking away she and the other women all got together and confronted him. Now, I’m not sure how these ladies all found each other. That part was conveniently left out of the story. But they did. Instead of all of them agreeing to just tell this guy to go to beat it, they thought it more productive to stage some kind of Player Intervention. The purpose? I have no idea. No doubt each one of them was having their own sideline conversation with the guy and had deluded themselves that he would dump the rest and be with her.

Allow me to enlighten you on something. These types of people NEVER CHANGE. Ever. In fact, having women go to such extreme lengths to call them on the carpet does nothing but feed their egos. It also provides them with the opportunity to craft up a drama that they can use to generate attention and sympathy from whatever single minded girl they eventually go on to date. Now they are the Leading Man in their own scripted soap opera. Being able to say that a woman dug through his Facebook page and contacted the other women they dated is a badge of honor for these guys. They get to do things like lock up their Twitter pages and hide their Facebook profiles. All things that people will notice and question. It will serve no purpose other than to add to his perceived “mystique.” It’s Le Cray. People eventually wise up to someone like this. But that doesn’t matter to them. They just find a new circle. These people will always find someone inexperienced or immature or insecure enough to buy in to their story. There’s a sucker born every minute, as they say.

I left a comment on the post I linked above. It is still awaiting approval. It said:

for her sake and for the sake of any woman that came after her.

How altruistic. Complete crap but altruistic. Why would *any* woman stick around for this sort of behavior for any other reason other than she didn’t want to lose him?

This is unnecessary melodrama. The signs were there all along (her wore a ring???) , and she ignored them. Only when they were confirmed did she decide to “act.” And that was probably motivated more by her desire to scare these other women off the guy’s trail so she could have him to herself. Or so he couldn’t have anybody if he didn’t just have her. It’s not something to be proud of.

When women say things in their profiles like they value honesty or don’t want any games/drama it sends a clear signal to the players that she has fallen for this sort of shadiness in the past and likely will again. Then there’s the whole “I had a crush on you in HS” story. Then he “insists” they are in a relationship after, what, three or four dates? And don’t forget the ring. And the canceling. And the texts. And possibly the fact that he never actually said to her or promised that she was the only woman he was dating. You made no mention of *exactly* what he pledged.

Come on. Women should just walk away from these assholes. He’s not panicking in the slightest. He already has a new mark or two. All this drama is feeding his ego. And all the women he “burned” have is their collective misery and bitterness. What a waste of energy.

Like I said. I get it. I’ve had those feelings myself. You hate the idea that someone like this got away with it and went on to be happy. Sure, all your girlfriends say things like, “But what does he have?” or “I feel sorry for his girlfriend.” Meanwhile, he’s quite happy and having no trouble at all moving on. He might let you think he’s terrified in hopes it will appeal to your ego. I mean, he was able to work that before, right? But he’s not afraid. He’s not alone. He’s not hiding. Not really, any way. He’s using all this hub bub to build up his image and mystique.

The reason why we get stuck in that place is because we resent the fact that they got away scott free while we’re miserable. Here’s another one of those realities we like to talk about here.

Sometimes? Bad people get everything they want. Life isn’t fair.  Some people just suck. Your time would be better spent figuring out why he saw you as a mark. Not sitting around with other women burnt by the asshat who dumped you scheming and plotting and bitching.

I don’t find stories like this empowering. They make the women involved look pathetic. Other women might high five the woman who “turned the tables” on this guy. But that’s only because they, too, were duped. It’s their way of getting vicarious vindication without having to make a fool of themselves.  They’re more than happy to let another woman roll around in the mud for them.

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