How Do You Deal With a Guy Who Is Too Needy?

Name: Devenannoying-e1356637300485
Comment: Guy Who’s Too Needy!!!

Hi there,

So I have gone on five dates with an attorney who I met through work. He made a good impression initially but after the first date he started calling every day, then complaining that I didn’t talk to him long enough; e.g., more than fifteen minutes. Then he wanted to see me three days later; I agreed because the first date had been positive and suggested that we go to a local eatery…but he showed up with a bottle of wine. I told him I wanted to take things slow but he proceeded to question me about how long I thought it appropriate before being exclusive. He then began to email me, call me, and text me in addition to calling me everyday. I again told him to slow down.
I’ve also noted some odd behaviors which makes me think he may have Asperger’s Disorder. He seems emotionally immature for a 44 year old attorney, will stroke my hand for fifteen minutes while avoiding eye contact, and likes to stick his tongue in my ear (which I don’t mind, except that he missed my ear completely and left one side of my head wet). Those are just a few examples. He seems to be pushing for intimacy after only five dates, and he’s already making plans for us to do things together two months in advance…I can’t seem to get him to slow down.
Does this sound normal to people? Should I run for the hills?
Age: 43
City: NYC
State: New York

 

 

I’m taking a short hiatus from writing responses to these letters. I have other things I need to focus on and have some personal matters I need to tend to for now. If I can fit in a response or post here and there, I will. Enjoy.

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How Long Do You Wait For Them To Commit?

Name: Tracey
Age: 45
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Comment: Hi Moxie,

As usual a quick google has turned up contradictory advice on my question, so I would appreciate your always well-conceived thoughts on this.  From the bits I have read, my natural inclinations aren’t always the best course of action.

My question:  how does one balance determining if a man has genuine interest vs a man wanting to take things slowly?  Some advice says not to put men on the spot about their feelings, they need to come to it organically and “process.”  Okay, fair enough, but how much time is reasonable to give it?  On one hand, I am not in a hurry and naturally want a relationship to be right for both parties, but on the other hand, don’t want to be dragged along and left feeling like an option (or in the “grey zone” as some site called it).  How much do individual circumstances (excuses?) play in to the equation on what’s reasonable?  For example .. relatively recent break-up, job stress ..

I could be setting dates with other gents as I do get asked out often (on okc).  But as a parent with a full-time career, don’t have the time, and frankly don’t have the inclination as I would prefer to be developing things with Guy#1 so it feels disingenuous to these other possible dates.  Be happy to share any other details you think would be vital to a response.

Thanks, T.

If, after a handful of dates, someone isn’t making an effort to see you more than once a week then they’re either too busy for a full-on relationship or not looking for anything too serious.

Since you’re crowd sourcing this predicament and scouring the internet looking for an answer, then my inclination is to tell you to just ask Guy #1 where he sees things heading. If he’s interested, he’ll stick around. If he’s not, he won’t.

If you have people showing interest and you think you and they might hit it off, go out with them. I just don’t understand this need to put your whole life on hold while you wait for someone else to decide the direction of the relationship. If you want a certain kind of commitment, you need to ask for it. That seems a lot more productive than spinning your wheels and wondering.

If someone constantly has a reason for not being able to see you on a regular basis, you have your answer. When someone wants you, they’ll do what they can to make sure nobody else gets you. It’s very simple.

I apologize for being short with this response, but the whole idea of worrying about whether or not a guy wants to commit or not and wondering where I stand with him just exhausts me. I intentionally detach myself from guys who travel a lot, work inordinate hours, or otherwise make it abundantly clear that they aren’t physically available. The minute a man shows signs of having limited amounts of time or emotional bandwidth, I simply shut off the switch in my head and look elsewhere. I might still date them and enjoy the time we do spend together. But I also acknowledge that they can only give so much and therefore should not be made any kind of priority. I expect nothing from them. Sometimes they surprise me, sometimes they don’t. Oh well.

I guess it comes down to how comfortable you are being alone or not being attached to someone.If you can get to a place where you accept the possibility that singledom might be your destiny, it’s amazing how much easier and less stressful dating becomes.

OP, you’re 45 years old. You have a child. You have a career. You have what it takes to get by and be secure. If this guy comes around, then Godspeed. Enjoy it. Love like nobody’s watching. But if he doesn’t, it’s okay. You’re fine. You still have options. Women our age have to stop buying into the idea that a happy ending looks one specific way. It doesn’t. Write your own Second Act. Maybe it has a dashing leading man. Maybe it has a few. Maybe it has none. Just remember that they’re just the supporting players. You’re the lead.

 

Thoughts?

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How Much Should a Guy Give Without A Woman Reciprocating?

Hey, Moxie!

I’ve got a question for you that, I think, would be pretty fitting for your blog. While I am no longer in this predicament (everything worked out!), it seems like a common enough problem that others might be going through right now. The text is below:

I met a woman on OkCupid two weeks ago. We’ve been spending quite a lot of time together; all of the six dates we’ve gone on so far have been long and a lot of fun, and we really enjoy each others company. It didn’t take long before we started doing “new couple-” like things, like holding hands/each other and kissing/making out…but she’s shot down every attempt I’ve made at going to the next step and staying the night with her.

I’ve stopped seeing other people to start seeing her and am really excited to keep this going, but I am afraid I’ll have to wait months before we get intimate. I really do not want to do this nor do I want to pressure her into doing something she isn’t ready for. What do you think I should do?

Thanks!

Brian, 25, NYC

MOXIE’S EDIT: I asked Brian how this worked itself out and he said that he stayed at her place this past weekend and had sex. He also said that he told the woman in question, a couple dates earlier,  that he had stopped dating other women. She did not ask him to stop dating other people.

If you were a little older I might roll my eyes and suggest you re-think whether you want to continue dating her. But if you’re 25, she’s likely that age or younger, and therefore her behavior sounds reasonable. If it worked for you and didn’t cause you too much second guessing, then hooray. Crisis averted. You informed her that you were only interested in dating her. Two dates later she let you stay over.

Next time, though, I’m not sure you want to be so forth coming about that so soon.

You and she have only been dating a couple of weeks. In those two weeks you saw each other 6 times. You’re a single gal’s wet dream. And that’s the problem. I think making yourself available is key. But 6 dates in two weeks and swearing off other women and then telling her? Yeah, you made it a little too easy for her. By all means stick around. Just don’t tip your hand in case you meet someone who could take advantage of your patience.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with deciding to focus on one person after 6 dates. I think 3 dates a week might be pushing it that early on. I usually cap it at two. Yes, be available. But be smart about it. 3 days a week says, “I don’t have much going on in my life and I might become clingy.” Not only is the appearance of the lack of options unattractive, but getting too familiar too quickly might make you overly dependent.

I just wouldn’t tell someone that, especially when they weren’t reciprocating interest in the way I prefer.  It’s a give and take process. Women know that men want physical reciprocation of the boobie/blowjob kind. She probably knew you wanted more than hand holding and kissing after a couple of dates. What you should have done was pulled back, and not make yourself more accessible. If she wants to take her time, that’s perfectly acceptable. But that doesn’t mean you should become her lap dog.  You played right into her hands.

I know some women will say that, just by agreeing to go out with him, she was reciprocating. That’s precious. But that’s not enough. You need to show appreciation. Pay a check, organize and plan the date, ask him out, etc. Yes, of course, they want sex, too. Guys will gladly accept other gestures as they wait for things to go in that direction. They’ll be annoyed, but their annoyance will be mild compared to how they’ll feel if they’re paying for everything and making all the plans and overtures and getting nothing but a kiss on the cheek. If anything, think of paying for a date as buying time until you can have sex without fearing your friends will talk behind your back.

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In Dating, Does Water Truly Seek Its Own Level?

Name: Clarissa
Age: 25
City: boston
State: massachusetts
Comment: I have been in a relationship with this guy for 3 months. We were together before but we broke up. Now we decided to get back together and that our feelings are still there. We tell each other that we love each other and we check up on each other. But my only issue is that he is really needy. He always needs me to do something for him and it gets annoying.I don’t like when people are very needy especially when they have a job or the proper resources and they feel that you have to help them with everything. He is also very controlling and whenever I fuss he gets really mad and tells me to stop acting different. Which I’m not, I am just speaking my mind. Now he is really listening and trying more. but it won’t be long before he goes back to being the same way. He is always partying and at his friends house. And I can only see him on his time. Like if I go somewhere he has to know with who and where. Or he will just randomly pick a day to come over my house. I hate it. Every time I tell him I am about to leave or i start to pull away or call less he starts begging and saying sorry or saying how much he misses me. It’s like how many times can you say sorry. I’m starting to get tired of him. And even though I love him these things are pushing me to the edge. One day he called me out of nowhere and said babe where are you. I want to see you, and meet your family. I asked him if he was OK because he wasn’t into meeting my family for a short time in our relationship. After that day he has become very clingy. Two days after he was sad about something and I gave him advice and talked to him. And he wouldn’t let me go to sleep. He kept calling me saying he couldn’t go to sleep without talking to his babe. Then the next morning he just kept texting me all day and being loving. Which he does. No lie. And then after that day he went back to his old self. I feel like he is afraid of commitment. And he is backing off a little out of fear. But what do I know. What are your honest thoughts? Because I am on my last straw.and i really want to be with him but how more can you take.

You two are clearly incompatible. You have very different personalities and thresholds for certain behavior. So much so that I’m trying to figure out what you saw in each other in the first place.

I remember be at a happy hour with co-workers back when I worked a regular 9 to 5 job. One of the guys was saying how most people were average looking. Or as he referred to them, “a solid 5 or 6.” He pointed out a couple of women at the bar and assigned them a number on his sliding scale of hotness. Then he said, “My girlfriend is average. I’m a little above average.” There went my belief that every man found their girlfriend or wife beautiful. My stomach developed a knot thinking that, if he made such an obnoxious comment publicly, what the hell did he say privately. Or worse…to her face.

I had met his girlfriend a few times and did often wonder what the attraction was. As much as I hated to admit it, he was a very good looking – if arrogant -  guy. Lookswise he could have scored a woman who was more objectively “hot.” But the real confusion came to their personalities and lifestyles. They seemed like polar opposites in every possible way. The point that stuck out to me most is that he was so disciplined when it came to what he ate and working out and she was a little overweight and out of shape. She had actually expressed insecurity about her body another time we had been together socializing. I imagine it must have been difficult to be struggling with your own body image issues as your partner fastidiously stuck to a diet and work out regime. I toyed with the idea that he enjoyed passive aggressively torturing her with his fixation on his body. That’s something that has always puzzled me: how does someone so focused on their own fitness reconcile with being with someone who doesn’t share the same mind set? Could it be that there really was something psychological at work there? A type of gaslighting, perhaps?

It wasn’t until many, many years later as I reflected on that pairing did it start to make sense to me. I wondered if he preferred a woman who was non-threatening. Was his ego too fragile to endure having it challenged? Is that, like, a real thing? Was his relationship an example of water seeking its own level?

I think that sometimes attraction has nothing to do with the physical and everything to do with the mental. Subconsciously – or maybe in some cases even consciously – we seek out people who won’t intimidate us or make us feel inadequate. Or who make us feel needed. Or who make us feel superior. And so on.

My point, OP, is that even to the casual observer, your relationship doesn’t appear to be working. It seems the obvious answer is to break up. I would encourage you to ask yourself what you really found so attractive about this guy in the first place. Is it possible that his needy, weak behavior somehow compliments your domineering and, well, cold demeanor? Maybe you are with him because he’s someone who, because of his own limitations,  accepts you as is?

Just something to consider.

 

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Dating & Stereotypes: What’s Your Learning Curve?

Name: David
Comment: Hi Moxie, I recall you mentioned that as a dating blogger you have difficulties finding suitable mates.

How about being a psychologist? I had great conversations and wonderful first dates until I revealed (when asked for my occupation and education) that I am a psychologist with a PhD.

In addition, even before revealing the above, when I say to City dates that I live on Staten Island, it seems to be the end of the encounter, either in person (e.g. speed dating) or on a dating site. I am fit, attractive, and own a car.

Your advice?
Thanks.
Age: 44
City: Staten Island
State: NY

 

There are two separate issues here.

Let;s tackle the non-problem of your career. My ex is a psychologist. Personally, I loved being with someone who not only appreciated and understood my need to analyze things, but encouraged it. However, I can see why some people might find that intimidating. As I said in a recent post, no matter what you do for a living, there is going to be somebody out there who will not date you because of it. If anything you should use your job as a filter of some kind to help you determine compatibility.

Yep, some people won’t date me because of what I do and some people only want to date me because what I do. That’s life. I think the problem is that people mature believing that they have far more options than they actually do.  There will always be stereotypes and biases applied to us that cause us to be pursued, judged or dismissed. Lawyers deal with it. Finance people deal with it. Fireman deal with it. If someone recoils or stops showing interest once you reveal what you do for a living, it’s because they are either intimidated or ignorant themselves, as they live their lives basing decisions on stereotypes. If they aren’t even willing to give you a chance, they’re not worth your time.

Speaking of stereotypes, let’s tackle the second issue in your letter. Unfortunately, inhabitants of Staten Island are typically perceived as simple and boorish. There’s another issue in this specific scenario because many people tend to envision the “typical” Staten Island resident to be Italian and to possess the “typical” personality traits of Italian people i.e. loud and ignorant. (Please watch A Bronx Tale. The Robert Deniro character is also an example of the “typical” Italian male. Quiet but strong, hard working and devoted to family. We’re not all loud-mouth and violent gangsters with mob ties. Kthanxs.)

The other problem is that you live outside of the city. I dread bringing this up as it will just arouse and awaken all the whiny dudes in Queens who like to cry elitist. Boo hoo. You have to understand, OP, that people who attend an event in Manhattan or any other major city want to meet people who live in that particular city. Not Queens or Long Island or Astoria.They don’t want to deal with the commute and all the stress that comes with it.  On the opposite end of this expectation are the people who live in Jersey and Queens who attend Manhattan events and get upset because they didn’t meet a bunch of Patrick Batemans and Mr. Bigs. They, too, struggle to find someone suitable.

The trouble with relying so heavily on stereotypes is that, while there usually is a layer of validity to the stereotype, the image and assumptions constructed are not based on reality. They are usually an extension of our personal opinions and desires. What hinders dating most is the unreasonable expectations that we have the tendency to develop based on ideas we have in our head.

I’ll never forget meeting a guy on OKC. In one of our pre-date conversations, I gave him the link to this web site. He took a tour and read dozens of posts. In his search he came across one of the password protected posts. He emailed me and asked for access to the post entitled “Too Many Cocks.” I assumed he made a typo, as the post was actually entitled, ‘Too Many Cooks.” Suffice to say that this guy had assumed I was some kind of Slutty OKC Unicorn -attractive, intelligent, sexual and interested in extreme sexual acts. When I wasn’t as “open” as he thought I would be, he balked. All it took was to read a blog title too quickly to cause him to manufacture an image of me in his mind that did not exist.

Equally counter-productive is to look at a photo and assume that you’ll be meeting someone who looks exactly like that picture. As a good friend once commented, a photo is nothing more than a moment in time.You can’t expect someone to appear or behave exactly like how you assumed (or hoped) they would because of a couple of one-dimensional representations. There needs to be a learning curve of sorts. If you dismiss someone because you have a specific idea of how they should look or act and most people don’t meet that image, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

My advice, David, is this: If you want to date a woman who lives in the city, move to the city. Either that or accept the fact that where you live and what you do will be used against you and will thereby limit your options. Just keep in mind that everybody’s options are limited. Your assumption that other people have it easier is false. Pretty much everybody struggles to meet someone. It’s the people who accept that their audience is smaller that experience the least frustration and has more success.

 

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The Dating Games Are Over, Folks

Name: J
Comment: Hey Moxie,

I think I already know your thoughts on the subject, but I’ve been having a rather heated debate with friends recently and it seems we’re largely undecided when all opinions are weighed.  Since we can’t come to an agreement, I thought I’d pass the topic on to you for consideration.

Here’s the issue: Early on in a relationship, it seems you have a choice to either be “available and interested” or “reserved and coy” (people are obviously capable of falling anywhere in between but we’ll pretend they’re not for the sake of discussion).  Conventional wisdom tells you that you need to move “slowly” and not let people into your life so easily to avoid getting hurt, but myself (and a few of my friends) reject that wisdom in the name of good faith toward good people.  We believe that all relationships should start out on equal footing, and deliberately making yourself unavailable (by waiting to respond to txts/calls/emails or artificially filling your calendar) is a terrible way to achieve any kind of a meaningful partnership.  We tend toward doing the opposite in fact: breaking plans to make way for the new person, readily corresponding, and including them in our interests.

I consider all of my friends to be “good people” so from that small sample size, it appears that people worth dating live in both camps.  We’ve agreed to disagree on which method is “better” but one thing we can both agree on is this: it’s tragically frustrating when you meet someone (for dating) who’s in the opposite camp.  The values clash like titans on the battlefield and at least one person almost always ends up terribly confused (if not hurt).

So, what’s the method-of-choice?
Age: 28
City: Seattle
State: WA

 

As I’ve said many times now, the dating process has become more intensified. Ten years ago people could get away with saying they didn’t get a voicemail or haven’t had the time to reply to an email. Two to three days between phone calls was plausible. Now? Nope. Not having it. If someone allows for 24 hours to go by before responding to any email, they are not available or not interested. Game over.

Meeting people and forming connections has become too easy now. People no longer have to go out to get dates. All of it can be done while lying in bed and scrolling through various social media apps on your phone.

The days of waiting three days to call or not answering the first time someone rings you up are gone. In fact, all the staple dating rules that people yammer on and on about on the Interwebs are a thing of the past. Honest to God, my eyes gloss over every time I see a new blog post about how long a woman should wait to have sex or how a guy can “create mystery” or use “charisma” to meet women. All of it is dreck, written by people who haven’t a freakin’ clue what it’s actually like to date in today’s digital world. I read chat transcripts and blog posts and honestly feel like I’m sitting around a lunch table in the cafeteria in my high school. You have a bunch of women trying to out do each other in terms of how much attention they get from men and you have a bunch of feeble white knight-ish guys telling these women how awesome they are. It’s all awful and should be ignored, blocked, muted and avoided.

If you’re interested in somebody, you need to communicate that. Pronto. You needn’t be anxious or aggressive about it. All you need to do is state your intentions. No more multiple days worth of email messages. No more counting dates until you reach some imaginary number that will spare you the “slut” label. Now is the time to just act on your feelings while practicing common sense and critical thinking. Be smart, but be proactive. We are all replaceable, more so now than ever before. We are functioning in a semi-detached society. Not replying to an email on Match.com is the norm. People break up via text message. I hate to say this so bluntly, as it makes it sound somewhat hopeless, but we just can’t get as invested in all of this as easily and quickly as we used to.

Anybody who makes you wait for a response in some way simply isn’t interested enough to make it worth your effort. While it’s always prudent to give someone breathing room, a person needs to make their interest known as quickly as they can. If someone feels like they have to wait or delay the process, consider them questionable. I don’t believe this excuse that people do this to protect themselves. I believe people who use this excuse are just ambivalent about dating in general or seeking attention. The men or women who genuinely want to meet someone will react in kind and return the effort. It’s that simple.

There’s no such thing as “taking it slow” anymore. Any time a person says they need to “take it slow” they’re either communicating that they’re not that interested or not capable of having a relationship at that point. “Take it slow” is an acceptable way to say, “I need you to complete a series of tests before I will return the effort or interest.” That’s it. It’s a ruse.

No more over-thinking everything. Now is the time to act. No response from them?  Move on.

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Elementary, My Dear Watson: He Just Wanted To Get Laid

Name: Eleanor
Age: 30
City: Carbondale
State: CO
:
Comment: I’ve read your blog for a few months, but as a (potential) contributor, I’m a virgin…try to be gentle?

Everybody plays a fool…sometimes.

I live in the mountains in Colorado. It’s lovely, but remote- as you’d imagine -moving here as a single woman has yielded a wealth of professional growth, but not companionship. I soon figured out the bar scene was not the place to remedy this. And though it’s winter here, I’m one of few with no real interest (money to burn) in skiing or snowboarding. So I decided to try okcupid for a few months. (dun dun dun DUUUN!)

I went on a number of dates, nothing special. This was ok by me; we can find a value to each experience even if it isn’t the one we had in mind. One day, a man emailed me and we hit it off.

He was my age, articulate, into rugby, and Irish. Like me, he worked with computers, enjoyed dry wit, his presentation style was a bit blunt, he seemed to be looking for more than a one night stand. All appealing fare to me. Pretty soon, we graduated from email to text, then to phone. That week felt great, with calls each night lasting near to dawn; it had been a long time since I’d felt any sort of connection with a man. Yes, I’ll admit it: we had phone sex. Once. Barring stigmas, it was grand fun, and no regrets!

Then he asked to see me. But in order to do so, he’d have to drive 4 hours. We talked about it for a while, neither one wanting to over-step any boundaries, deciding in the end that we wanted to meet. My apartment is a separated basement level of a home in which the family I rent from lives, and they would be a wall away. Anyway, my intuition told me I didn’t have cause for worry. I offered to make dinner for us there.

The night came, and he arrived. I served us drinks and cooked while we talked. By the time dinner was in the oven, he asked to kiss me, and I said yes.

Most people can recall a few times where an attraction was unmistakable, a tension hanged in the air, building to the point where a simple gesture comes on like a collision. Make fun if you want, it was a great feeling. Familiar with the nature of passion as I am, I knew it likely wouldn’t last, and that perhaps it was only a feeling I had in my head, in my body…and all the other things about red flags, people just saying things to get sex, and the rest. I make choices knowingly that I can live with. I felt I could talk to this guy, and I liked him enough, to be open and see what happened. It was not my first rodeo.

I don’t use sex as a tool for respect. If it feels right to me in the moment, and I can accept whatever the consequences might be, then I’m in. I don’t give credence to any double standards between the sexes in regards to the quickness of sex. I’m selective, with changing wants and needs over time, and according to each circumstance. My ideal is a lasting companionship- but delaying sex an arbitrary amount of time is not going to make that possibility more likely, nor will it determine, in my mind, whether or not a mutual respect exists between two people. If it feels right, I’m go for take off, working with the information I have at the time.

Needless to say, he stayed the night. We were in bed for hours, and to this day, I don’t feel bad about it.
Though by now any astute reader has caught on to my use of the past tense as foreshadow; for, why else would I be writing this? The truth is, I have begun to seriously doubt my ability to judge men, to read what people are doing when I’m inside the situation. With someone else, I can see it a mile away- but when it’s me, clouds descend. I have been in bad relationships and good ones. I’ve had experience with abuse. All I want is to seek, in earnest, perspective on how I might improve upon that seeming ineptness on my part.

Before the date, he pursued me. After, he did not. Except in text message form. He phoned one time after we met, one time alone- when I basically insisted we speak and not text, the week I had a car wreck and health issues spring up simultaneously. He said I shouldn’t question his motives based on something as trite as phoning- but on his actions in the long run. He said he didn’t have enough minutes on his phone, he hated talking on the phone anyway, and he was simply too busy with his 2 kids and work to call. We were having lengthy quasi-discourses via text, to the point where the blatant irony of it stared me stupidly in the face. The simple truth to me was: I wasn’t a priority.

I asked if he’d like to meet again, and he said, if he could borrow his brother’s car and could afford it, during an upcoming weekend. That weekend came 2 weeks later, and went. He grew volatile with me when I wanted to do more than text, more than once, threatening to “cut it off”, unless I could give him a reason he should “roll the dice on me”.

I told him I couldn’t make him care about me; either he did or didn’t, and I didn’t understand the anger in his responses. I asked him what he wanted, and never got a straight answer.

Several days go by and I don’t attempt to reach him. Valentine’s Day comes, and that evening he texts saying he’s sorry it’s been a few days since he was in touch, but apparently he had a stroke. I sympathize with him, tell him I’m here if he wants to talk, and nothing changes. Several more days pass, and then the message comes: “So this is a fresh start is it?”

I never answered. I didn’t hear from him again. I’m fairly certain he just didn’t give a shit, or just wasn’t in a good place to consider anything with a woman who lived 4 hours away anyway, wasn’t into me, or whatever. Before we’d even met, he said he was “falling for me fast”. The night we had our date he told me: “Only one kind of guy does my job for a living- an asshole.” His job- by the way- not in computers, as his profile attests, but as a bouncer for a night club. I didn’t really know him at all.

I’ve been feeling a bit down on myself for playing pony to him- I ended up apologizing during his temperamental outbursts related to our text-only interactions- while he proclaimed I was delusional and didn’t “know how these things work in the real world”. Again, for wanting us to speak by phone, not just text.

I deleted my okcupid profile. I started thinking I have no clear idea of how to tell if someone’s being sincere. Truthfully, I feel stupid and a little hurt. But I know there are men out there who feel this way too, and I’m not harboring any sexist resentment. I take responsibility for my actions.

I know the adage about actions, not words. I know about red flags; I saw some of them here. I know that it is more or less smarter for women (especially one who currently feels vulnerable) not to initiate things with a man, and I’m not. I only put a month’s worth of time into this whole thing, before walking away. But it would be much more worthwhile if I could choose more wisely from the start.

Does a woman’s willingness to engage sexually early on represent to most men as: no assembly required? Or have I yet to simply find one who is into me? What should I work on in myself, in order to send out the signals I mean to, to those I mean to?

 

If it feels right to me in the moment, and I can accept whatever the consequences might be, then I’m in.

Orly? Because the 1381 words above say differently.The problem here is that you are experiencing a profound cognitive dissonance. You tell yourself how okay you are if the sex turns into nothing more, but you’re clearly not. Let me break this scenario down for you, as it’s not nearly as unique or uncommon as you’ve imagined it to be in your head. Ready?

This guy is down and out and has no options. He met someone woman who sounds to be equally, shall we say, unsettled and forgiving. He’s broke, works some menial wage job, has little money, etc. Guess what? He rarely gets laid. That’s why he was willing to drive 4 hours for sex. There was not some incredible gravitational pull forcing you two together. This wasn’t fate or kismet or happenstance.

The problem isn’t online dating or that these men are shady. For the most part, these guys reveal exactly who they are. The problem is that people often refuse to challenge assumptions or perform the slightest bit of critical thinking.I loathe trite expressions about how women should watch a man’s actions, not his words. This is a perfect example why sayings like that are misleading. This guy drove four hours, which to many women would say that he was genuine and interested. Except he wasn’t. He was desperate. Don’t just look at someone’s actions. Compare those actions to what you know to be typical or “normal” and ask yourself why someone would behave in such a way. Observe. Compare. Deduce.

Someone submitted a story a few months ago about a guy she met online who was, in her words, “The OK Cupid Unicorn.” This unicorn, this catch, managed to multiple nights free in succession. Now, if he were the unicorn she believed, wouldn’t it stand to reason that this guy had other women just as interested? That’s what critical thinking is is all about. Don’t just take what is presented to you at face-value. Examine it.

You should also examine your own motives. To me, you seem to just want attention. Hence the insane length of this letter and all of the unnecessary details and rational and reasonable thinking. There’s the cognitive dissonance again.You knew the whole time that this wasn’t a productive experience. You pursued it any way. Why?

You got caught up in the attention. That’s what you miss. Not the guy himself. You miss the attention. That’s why you’re here. You are trying to fill that void. That’s also probably why you had this experience in the first place. The fact that you even entertained a guy 4 hours away tells me you weren’t looking for much beyond a little drama and attention.

 

 

 

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Are City Singles More Attractive Than Suburb Singles?

Name: Chris
City: Nutley
State: NJ
Comment: Any ideas on how to meet single girls in the suburbs? I don’t meet anyone through my job and the people I meet in the different activities I try, like co-ed sports, are already in a relationship. Then the only ones who are interested in me on the dating websites are the overweight women – which is the exact opposite of me. I’m athletic and active. Also, I’m white, and it seems like women of other races are interested in me, but white women are not. I don’t get it.
Age: 35

 

My opinion is that, if you can’t find anybody online that you want to date, you’re probably not going to find them offline, either. When you use online dating you are literally surrounded by single, eligible people. If you go to a bar or a sports group or some other activity that isn’t singles related, you have no idea who is available. With online dating, you do. If you can’t manage to find or attract anybody to your liking when you’re online, there’s a disconnect. It all comes down to perception. If you go around thinking that there’s nobody out there to your liking, you probably won’t ever find them. So the first thing you need to do is change your attitude.

Then the only ones who are interested in me on the dating websites are the overweight women – which is the exact opposite of me.

When you say overweight, what exactly do you mean? Like, severely overweight or, like, 10 or 20 pounds overweight? Because if you’re one of those people who refuses to date someone even slightly overweight, you should really just stay home. You should also take a reality pill. Unless you are objectively hot, you don’t get to insist upon only dating women of a certain body type. If you can’t manage to meet or find anybody to you liking anywhere, you’re either too picky or not as attractive/engaging as you think. It’s that simple. Someone slightly over weight (to you) can still be quite healthy and fit. I’m a size 10. I probably weigh about 155-160 pounds. I do intervals/run 3-4 times a week and, for the most part, stick to a diet of 1400 calories a day. I’ve had doctors comment on my immune system, my heart and my lungs. I have great skin and hair. Someone not a size 4 or 6 can be fit and healthy. Some people just don’t have the genetic make up that allows them to be a smaller size. Please don’t say that women with some extra weight aren’t healthy and that’s why you won’t date them, as fitness is really important to you, because that’s crap. You want a thin woman. That’s fine. You’re allowed to have your type. Just don’t justify it with a bunch of BS.   Also? Based on your other admission about never hearing from white women, you just might be a tad ignorant. Preferring to date someone of a certain race is one thing. Expressing it as you did is another.  That is suburbanite simplicity at work. I’ve said this many times before, the City Single mentality is very different from the Suburb Single mentality. There is a simpleness to people that live in suburbs that people who live in cities simply can not jibe with.

The slender and in shape women you seek? They’re going for guys in Manhattan. And they’re getting them. They’re not looking for Suburb Guy. They want City Guy. I’m going to throw this little theory out there. I think City Singles are more attractive mentally and physically than Suburb Singles.  City Singles are more concerned with their looks because they are surrounded by other attractive people. Walking down the street in a major city is a constant reminder that there is always someone younger, richer and hotter. Hence why people in the city tend to pay more attention to the external. We are always being exposed to what else is out there and are starkly aware of who our competition is.

If meeting someone fit and active is important to you, then you have to create a dating profile that makes that clear. You need to discuss, without going over board, how you stay active and healthy. You should post pictures of you involved in activities or outdoors. You’re never going to be able to prevent people who aren’t your type from contacting you. You have to just accept that pretty much everybody online thinks they’re better looking than they are or are willing to throw a bunch of darts at a dartboard. That’s online dating. If you can invent a filter that will stop messages from people you don’t find attractive from hitting your inbox, email me. Until then, you just have to accept that online dating involves slogging through a lot of people that don’t interest you. There is no avoiding that.

I would not make any kind of statement in your profile about only wishing to meet women of a certain race or ethnicity. That makes you sound ignorant and possibly racist. Same goes for including a disclaimer in your profile that you only wish to hear from petite/slender/slim women. You’ll end up turning off a large majority of the people you wish to meet.

Chris, if you only wish to date slender women, my suggestion to you is to look towards Manhattan.I believe you are more likely to meet a slender, fit and active women in Manhattan than you will in Nutley, New Jersey. Go ahead. Flame me and call me an elitist. You’ll hardly be the first.

As for why so many women of color contact you, I’ll leave that up to women and men who fall in to that category to offer insights.

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She’s Just Not That Into You, Bro

Name: Mark
Age: 31
State: CA
Question: Super Responsive but No Initiation Whatsoever

Hey there, love your column and would also love your advice on something.

I recently went out on a few dates with this girl who I met a few months ago.  We met at a bar in LA and she actually gave me her number without me asking.  We texted a bit back and forth and finally decided to meet up.  She lives in a suburb of LA so our commutes were a bit of a pain, but we managed over the course of the past 2 months to have 3 really nice dates, spaced out in 2 week intervals on Saturday nights.  Nice places, great times, and impromptu post-dinner visits to bars and even a random comedy show.

Now I’d like to think I’m a guy that “generally” gets when a girl is into me and when she’s not.  I’m not like a lot of the guys that write to you complaining about women and the plight of the dating world.  I had a great time with her and I do want to see her again.  And I forgot to mention, all 3 dates we ended out making out/necking/petting and sometimes dancing in public but never going back to each other’s places (the commute issue).  I also left each of those dates pretty happy about how things went.

If you’re of the belief that most people exhibit rational behavior when dating, to not only advance their own interests but make the other party know what they’re thinking/feeling without saying it, then this girl would be the exception.  She was super sweet, cool, classy, and respectful during the 3 dates, and is a relatively successful career woman and well educated.  Nothing in her behavior indicated anything to the contrary.   However, there’s been one problem: while she is very responsive to all of my contact, she has never once initiated anything.  No text, call, email, anything.  I feel like if I never reached out I’d never hear from her again.  Once I do reach out, boom, I plan a date and we’re all set.

After our 3rd date, a few issues came up with our schedules and we haven’t been able to set it up for something more.  Every time I’m free, she’s not, and vice versa.  But every time this is even decided, it’s me reaching out.  (I’m a text guy, not a call guy).  As I got more confused, I decided to wait several days without contacting her.  Still nothing.  Then I sent her a text, and she sends a flirty response within 2 minutes.  Bunch of flirting back and forth.  Then I say we should hang out this coming weekend. “I can’t next few weeks but definitely at some point.”

I’m just not used to behavior like this so I don’t know how to read it.  Not interested? Just very aloof? Has a bf so thinks she can ‘back pocket’ me? Leading me on, but getting what out of it? I definitely dont text her every day, sometimes going almost a week, and never more than a few back and forths, so it can’t just be for attention.

At this point I’m just kind of exhausted.  It’d be nice to go out again, but I don’t know if I can deal with this kind of contact style for the foreseeable future.  I also haven’t mentioned any of this to her because it’ll come off as needy.  I think it’s a little bit like your passive aggressive email article, but we’ve been on 3 dates and given the flirtiness and responsiveness I don’t see this as a “pissing contest”.  If it’s a ploy to get me more attracted it’s not working, it’s just confusing.  On the other hand if she’s not interested, she should just stop responding and let it run its natural course by fizzling it out.

 

I’m leaning towards thinking she’s not terribly interested. The commute, as you said, is somewhat of a pain and it’s not like you two can just pop by each other’s apartment’s or make last minute plans. You’re fun to hang out with when she has nothing better to do. As I’ve always said, if both parties want sex, they have it, distance or lack of condoms be damned.

If her schedule is so busy that she can’t make time for you for two weeks, that’s a pretty good indication of how she feels about you. That’s actually  polite way of telling you she’s moderately interested at best. That’s how a lot of people handle these types of situations. Will she hang out with you if she doesn’t get a better offer? Sure. She’s not repulsed by you. My guess is the distance isn’t ideal so she’s keeping you on her roster, as some people are wont to do. She’s not totally ready to dismiss you, as she might have a dating dry spell. But she’s not going to move mountains to get together with you. Her message is mixed and inconsistent. She’s busy…but she totally still wants to get together. You’re right. That’s exhausting to try and decipher let alone deal with on a regular basis.

I think a lot of women tend to believe that the man is supposed to initiate contact and be the one to make plans. That’s a test to see just how interested the man is. The funny thing is, a woman doesn’t even have to be all that interested in a man to make them pass this test. It’s all about the ego stroke. The making out and petting are just empty gestures, much like the post-sex for the first time text or paying a tab. They are things men and women do because they know it’s expected and will grease the wheels of progress, so to speak. If she wanted you, really desired you, she’d have jumped you by now or made it quite clear she wanted to have sex with you.

She’s just not that into you, brah.

 

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True or False: A Woman Can Get Laid Whenever She Wants

On the topic of women who seek casual/nsa/non-monogamous sex/relationships, G. writes:

“I’d say there are two assumptions:  one is that a woman, no matter what she says, is always “looking” for a more-than-sexual relationship should one present itself and two, as you said, is that a woman can get “just sex” pretty much anytime she wants, without much effort.  So, a woman who seeks “causal sex” or selects it on her profile is suspect.” – G. , Male, 37, NYC

Thoughts?

I think there is some truth to this. However, I think the men who might see these women as suspect probably would have eventually rejected them anyway. If they can’t take a woman’s choice to seek casual sex at face value then that speaks to their pre-conceived ideas about women in general. Seeking sex in some form is merely an outlier of the woman’s personality and belief system. These women would not be compatible with a man who felt she should keep certain carnal desires to herself. Or these guys have a general mistrust of women. Either way, why bother with such men?

Yes, it’s pretty easily to just get sex if that’s what you want. But it’s even easier if you use online dating. Sure, a woman could go out to a party or a bar if she liked. But what if she can’t be bothered to do that? What if she doesn’t have that kind of time or money? What’s wrong with optimizing her online dating experience by using it to find sex? I’m guessing the issue is it’s because she’s being overt about it. See my previous point.

I do agree that “just sex” to men and “just sex” to women is often different. A lot of men are less discerning. As we said last week, for many men attraction isn’t even necessary. I don’t know if many women share that opinion or experience. For some men, “casual ” just means available. When some woman seek “casual” they also often seeks consistency and a sense of companionship or just rapport. But they can want those other aspects without wanting commitment. I guess the segment of men who believe that is just small?

I’m curious to hear what others think about G’s quote.

 

 

 

 

 

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