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In Dating, Does Water Truly Seek Its Own Level?

March 18, 2013 by 14 Comments

Name: Clarissa
Age: 25
City: boston
State: massachusetts
Comment: I have been in a relationship with this guy for 3 months. We were together before but we broke up. Now we decided to get back together and that our feelings are still there. We tell each other that we love each other and we check up on each other. But my only issue is that he is really needy. He always needs me to do something for him and it gets annoying.I don’t like when people are very needy especially when they have a job or the proper resources and they feel that you have to help them with everything. He is also very controlling and whenever I fuss he gets really mad and tells me to stop acting different. Which I’m not, I am just speaking my mind. Now he is really listening and trying more. but it won’t be long before he goes back to being the same way. He is always partying and at his friends house. And I can only see him on his time. Like if I go somewhere he has to know with who and where. Or he will just randomly pick a day to come over my house. I hate it. Every time I tell him I am about to leave or i start to pull away or call less he starts begging and saying sorry or saying how much he misses me. It’s like how many times can you say sorry. I’m starting to get tired of him. And even though I love him these things are pushing me to the edge. One day he called me out of nowhere and said babe where are you. I want to see you, and meet your family. I asked him if he was OK because he wasn’t into meeting my family for a short time in our relationship. After that day he has become very clingy. Two days after he was sad about something and I gave him advice and talked to him. And he wouldn’t let me go to sleep. He kept calling me saying he couldn’t go to sleep without talking to his babe. Then the next morning he just kept texting me all day and being loving. Which he does. No lie. And then after that day he went back to his old self. I feel like he is afraid of commitment. And he is backing off a little out of fear. But what do I know. What are your honest thoughts? Because I am on my last straw.and i really want to be with him but how more can you take.

You two are clearly incompatible. You have very different personalities and thresholds for certain behavior. So much so that I’m trying to figure out what you saw in each other in the first place.

I remember be at a happy hour with co-workers back when I worked a regular 9 to 5 job. One of the guys was saying how most people were average looking. Or as he referred to them, “a solid 5 or 6.” He pointed out a couple of women at the bar and assigned them a number on his sliding scale of hotness. Then he said, “My girlfriend is average. I’m a little above average.” There went my belief that every man found their girlfriend or wife beautiful. My stomach developed a knot thinking that, if he made such an obnoxious comment publicly, what the hell did he say privately. Or worse…to her face.

I had met his girlfriend a few times and did often wonder what the attraction was. As much as I hated to admit it, he was a very good looking – if arrogant -  guy. Lookswise he could have scored a woman who was more objectively “hot.” But the real confusion came to their personalities and lifestyles. They seemed like polar opposites in every possible way. The point that stuck out to me most is that he was so disciplined when it came to what he ate and working out and she was a little overweight and out of shape. She had actually expressed insecurity about her body another time we had been together socializing. I imagine it must have been difficult to be struggling with your own body image issues as your partner fastidiously stuck to a diet and work out regime. I toyed with the idea that he enjoyed passive aggressively torturing her with his fixation on his body. That’s something that has always puzzled me: how does someone so focused on their own fitness reconcile with being with someone who doesn’t share the same mind set? Could it be that there really was something psychological at work there? A type of gaslighting, perhaps?

It wasn’t until many, many years later as I reflected on that pairing did it start to make sense to me. I wondered if he preferred a woman who was non-threatening. Was his ego too fragile to endure having it challenged? Is that, like, a real thing? Was his relationship an example of water seeking its own level?

I think that sometimes attraction has nothing to do with the physical and everything to do with the mental. Subconsciously – or maybe in some cases even consciously – we seek out people who won’t intimidate us or make us feel inadequate. Or who make us feel needed. Or who make us feel superior. And so on.

My point, OP, is that even to the casual observer, your relationship doesn’t appear to be working. It seems the obvious answer is to break up. I would encourage you to ask yourself what you really found so attractive about this guy in the first place. Is it possible that his needy, weak behavior somehow compliments your domineering and, well, cold demeanor? Maybe you are with him because he’s someone who, because of his own limitations,  accepts you as is?

Just something to consider.

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Break Ups, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Mental Health/Illness, Dating & Weight, Dating a Manipulator, Dating Advice

Why Taking Revenge On An Ex Is a Waste

February 27, 2012 by 20 Comments

I was reading this post yesterday and had a case of deja vu.

Listen. Many of us have been there. We’ve been involved with someone that we knew in our gut were being disingenuous. But we stuck it out, hoping against hope we were wrong. We weren’t. We discussed this briefly in last weeks post about emotional grifters.  The shame we feel for being suckered almost overpowers us at times.

Anyhoo, the whole revenge angle – while extremely tempting – is a huge waste of energy. You know why?

Because they don’t care.

I was watching a TV special on MSNBC this weekend about online dating. One of the singles they interviewed was a woman who said she met a guy online and he told her that they were in a relationship. Eventually she learned he was dating multiple people. Instead of just walking away she and the other women all got together and confronted him. Now, I’m not sure how these ladies all found each other. That part was conveniently left out of the story. But they did. Instead of all of them agreeing to just tell this guy to go to beat it, they thought it more productive to stage some kind of Player Intervention. The purpose? I have no idea. No doubt each one of them was having their own sideline conversation with the guy and had deluded themselves that he would dump the rest and be with her.

Allow me to enlighten you on something. These types of people NEVER CHANGE. Ever. In fact, having women go to such extreme lengths to call them on the carpet does nothing but feed their egos. It also provides them with the opportunity to craft up a drama that they can use to generate attention and sympathy from whatever single minded girl they eventually go on to date. Now they are the Leading Man in their own scripted soap opera. Being able to say that a woman dug through his Facebook page and contacted the other women they dated is a badge of honor for these guys. They get to do things like lock up their Twitter pages and hide their Facebook profiles. All things that people will notice and question. It will serve no purpose other than to add to his perceived “mystique.” It’s Le Cray. People eventually wise up to someone like this. But that doesn’t matter to them. They just find a new circle. These people will always find someone inexperienced or immature or insecure enough to buy in to their story. There’s a sucker born every minute, as they say.

I left a comment on the post I linked above. It is still awaiting approval. It said:

for her sake and for the sake of any woman that came after her.

How altruistic. Complete crap but altruistic. Why would *any* woman stick around for this sort of behavior for any other reason other than she didn’t want to lose him?

This is unnecessary melodrama. The signs were there all along (her wore a ring???) , and she ignored them. Only when they were confirmed did she decide to “act.” And that was probably motivated more by her desire to scare these other women off the guy’s trail so she could have him to herself. Or so he couldn’t have anybody if he didn’t just have her. It’s not something to be proud of.

When women say things in their profiles like they value honesty or don’t want any games/drama it sends a clear signal to the players that she has fallen for this sort of shadiness in the past and likely will again. Then there’s the whole “I had a crush on you in HS” story. Then he “insists” they are in a relationship after, what, three or four dates? And don’t forget the ring. And the canceling. And the texts. And possibly the fact that he never actually said to her or promised that she was the only woman he was dating. You made no mention of *exactly* what he pledged.

Come on. Women should just walk away from these assholes. He’s not panicking in the slightest. He already has a new mark or two. All this drama is feeding his ego. And all the women he “burned” have is their collective misery and bitterness. What a waste of energy.

Like I said. I get it. I’ve had those feelings myself. You hate the idea that someone like this got away with it and went on to be happy. Sure, all your girlfriends say things like, “But what does he have?” or “I feel sorry for his girlfriend.” Meanwhile, he’s quite happy and having no trouble at all moving on. He might let you think he’s terrified in hopes it will appeal to your ego. I mean, he was able to work that before, right? But he’s not afraid. He’s not alone. He’s not hiding. Not really, any way. He’s using all this hub bub to build up his image and mystique.

The reason why we get stuck in that place is because we resent the fact that they got away scott free while we’re miserable. Here’s another one of those realities we like to talk about here.

Sometimes? Bad people get everything they want. Life isn’t fair.  Some people just suck. Your time would be better spent figuring out why he saw you as a mark. Not sitting around with other women burnt by the asshat who dumped you scheming and plotting and bitching.

I don’t find stories like this empowering. They make the women involved look pathetic. Other women might high five the woman who “turned the tables” on this guy. But that’s only because they, too, were duped. It’s their way of getting vicarious vindication without having to make a fool of themselves.  They’re more than happy to let another woman roll around in the mud for them.

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Filed Under: Closure, Dating, Dating a Manipulator, Douchey Guys, Latests Posts, Uncategorized Tagged With: , , , ,

“Girlfriend” Is Just a Word

October 27, 2011 by 26 Comments

I know what you are saying Moxie and I don’t expect him to be a virgin when I’m thousands of miles away. But he did call me his girlfriend and he did say he loved me. While I told him I was disgusted at him having sex with someone else HOURS before he was with me, I was more upset by the emotional connection with another woman. That he led her to believe too that they had something special. In some ways watching someone sleep, eat and iron is more personal than sex. – Marshmallow

 

As I said to Marshmallow in response to her guest post, the words “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” don’t really mean anything. They are just titles. They are words we use to encapsulate or describe a certain kind of dynamic between two people. Calling someone your girlfriend is a hell of a lot easier than saying, “She’s this woman that I see from time to time and that I have sex with.”

Here’s a different way to describe it. When you’re making a photo copy of something, most of us typically say that we’re “Xeroxing” something. The machine itself probably isn’t a Xerox brand. But the term “xeroxing” is a way we associate the action with a commonly known product. That way we don’t have to go in to a deeper or longer explanation.

Calling someone your girlfriend or boyfriend is similar. It implies something, but often times what the term implies is not accurate.

A man can call a woman his girlfriend, even though they’ve never explicitly discussed monogamy, exclusivity or long term goals. The man knows that the use of the word alludes to a certain level of commitment. Most men don’t throw this word around liberally, as they know it’s a verbal contract of sorts. They use it sparingly and correctly. But others, like the guy in Marshmallow’s story, use it quite casually. It’s a manipulative tactic employed for her benefit. He knows how she interprets the word. It appeals to the woman’s romantic side. The side that counts and documents milestones. The side that likes to insert the word “boyfriend” into her status updates, tweets and in conversations with friends. (See an interesting article here about how women use the words boyfriend and husband as bragging rights.) Use of the word provides the woman with a sense of superiority amongst her female friends, and certain men know that and use it to their advantage.

Unless there is an explicit agreement between the two people that they do not wish to date or sleep with anyone else, then the terms “boyfriend”  or “girlfriend” are simply titles that can be used for bragging rights and nothing more. Someone who tells you that they aren’t dating anyone else because they are too busy is not saying they are exclusively dating/sleeping with you.

Also not very reliable is when you have to badger a man in to agreeing to allow you to call him your boyfriend. Warning to any man that finds himself in this position.  I can remember reading a conversation one between a man and a woman. They had been dating about  a month. The woman had recently been dumped by another guy and was clearly trying to make that guy jealous, because the minute the other man agreed to be called her boyfriend, she hopped on to Twitter to make a “formal announcement.” Of course, they broke up a couple weeks later. She didn’t really want a boyfriend. She just wanted to say she had a boyfriend. The word didn’t really mean anything. It was what the word implied that mattered. Behavior like this makes a woman very, very vulnerable to predatory guys.

One thing that worked against Marshmallow is that she saw the women fawning all over him on his Facebook page and questioned him about them. Right there, she played her hand and demonstrated her insecurity and competitiveness with other women. He had her. While I don’t think the guy in her story is crafty or even smart enough to come up with some master plan to manipulate her, he certainly knew what buttons to press. And pressed them and played into her insecurities. Calling her his girlfriend is a great way to soothe her, thereby making her more manageable. That’s the point of using these words. For control.

These are the types of loopholes that women need to look for when getting to know a man. A man with true intentions says exactly what he means, succinctly and concisely. In fact, the more he says, the more likely he is just trying to bamboozle you with words.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating a Manipulator, Douchey Guys, Friends With Benefits, Latests Posts, Sex Tagged With: , , , , ,

Can You Master The Master Manipulator?

March 22, 2011 by 41 Comments

Name: NERDgirl  |  | Location: Atlanta , GA |Question: First I’ll start with background info: over the past 2 years a male friend and I have gotten closer, hanging out, spending time at each other’s apartments, going on “dates” etc…We already expressed that we “liked” each other and clearly enjoyed spending time with one another. Perfect. One night via text message he asked if I wanted him to be honest, of course I said yes. He said that he had been “considering taking things more seriously” with me which I assumed meant that he was trying to gauge whether he wanted me to be his girlfriend. Fine. But in the same message he says he’s not ready to be serious with someone….ok?? I asked if he felt like I was pressuring him in any way and he said “I don’t feel any pressure from you and I love that about you”…ok?? He later goes on to say that he’s scared and doesn’t know if he’s mature enough to handle a relationship with me which is completely okay with me since I NEVER even brought up the boyfriend/girlfriend thing with him. My question is why would he even bring all of this up if I never talked about it or hinted at it and he claimed that he never felt any subliminal pressure from me about it? Was I supposed to say that I wanted to be his girlfriend? Was this some strange kind of “test”? I’m so confused. If you can help please do.  |Age: 21

I want to say right off the bat that I think my response is going to be heavily influenced by personal experience. I’m going to say what jumped out at me and what I think, but I really want you to pay just as if not more attention to the people leaving comments. I think they are more objective.

He said that he had been “considering taking things more seriously” with me which I assumed meant that he was trying to gauge whether he wanted me to be his girlfriend. Fine. But in the same message he says he’s not ready to be serious with someone….ok??

There. Right there.  This line tripped my trigger. There’s something very, very manipulative about this sentence. As if he’s dangling a carrot on a string in front of you in order to make you jump. It reminds me of this, something a man in the recent past said to me while we were in the midst of an argument. .

and if this conversation had gone differently, we’d be happily exchanging emails over the weekend until seeing each other again next week.

This is an example of someone trying to make you feel guilty for questioning their intentions or standing up to them. Of course, context is key, but I’m not going to publish the whole exchange. Statements like this are used – depending on the context – to keep the other person in line and make them unsteady. The point is to keep you in the place where you’re so twisted up you don’t know what’s real and you begin to question your own judgment to the point where you become reliant and dependent on the manipulator’s opinion and approval.

“I don’t feel any pressure from you and I love that about you”…

Translation: Don’t pressure me. Even if I say things that imply I want more from you or that there’s an intimacy between us, don’t push. I’ll come around in my own time. Maybe. I think. If you’re lucky. You don’t actually have to bring anything up or express your feelings. He obviously knows how you feel. Maybe he even feels the same way. I don’t know. But don’t think that, because you’re not acting clingy or needy or because you think you’re playing it cool, that he isn’t picking up on anything. The fact is…it’s not really okay with you that he’s expressing possible interest and at the same time expressing uncertainty. If it were okay, you wouldn’t be writing in to us.

Now, since you told me via email that this guy is 22, this might not be a situation where you’re being manipulated. He could just be young and/or inexperienced. But behavior like this starts somewhere. It continues if said behavior achieves the person the desired results. Which is why you need to take control of the situation.

But let’s forget about him for a minute. I’ll get back to how you take control in a second.

Let’s talk about you. You’re devoting time trying to figure out him. But..what about you? What do you want from this situation? You’re allowing this guy to monopolize your thoughts about a situation that equally involves you. That’s the other thing that jumps out at me, as it’s common in dynamics where someone is being manipulated. One person has all the control, using it over the other, leaving that person confused and unsure of themselves.

I may be a big advocate of texting to ask people out and for preliminary/simple conversations. But this is not an example of that. Sure, he could be afraid of you rejecting him. He is young, after all.  But why would he be afraid if you two had already been spending time together going on “dates” (whatever that means.) See, this feels controlling to me, too. You’re not getting to see his reactions. After all this time “growing closer” (your perception, btw) why wouldn’t he feel comfortable enough having this conversation in person?

The test to see what this guy’s deal is is to take control. You need to ask him why he would bring this up if, as he said, you’ve never sent him any messages. You need to ask him what he wants or expects from you. DO NOT start this conversation off by complimenting him or telling him how you feel. DO NOT allow him to be privy to what you’re thinking JUST YET. LET HIM REVEAL FIRST. I know to some this might sound like a game, and I admit that it is to some degree. But it’s more about self-preservation. If you let a Manipulator in to your head, he’ll rummage around and find any and everything he can to use against you.

The way to tell if you’re dealing with a Manipulator is to call them out, challenge them. If they try to turn the tables, place blame, deflect or threaten to walk in either an overt or passive aggressive way, there’s a really good chance this person is a Manipulator. By challenging them you’re putting their ego in question. And they won’t stand for that. Which brings me to a great article I read yesterday. I read this article yesterday morning and found myself nodding along with every point. I recognized almost every sign.

The type of guy Christine was dealing with is all too common, but there’s nothing “normal” about it, says Dr. Mary Casey, author of “How to Deal With Master Manipulators”. “Manipulators aim to control their partners by pressing the buttons that get them emotional, whether it be making them feel afraid, unworthy, stupid, insecure, angry or frustrated,” she says. But because manipulators are typically passive-aggressive in their tactics, unlike domestic abuse, it can be difficult to tell when you’re in a manipulative relationship. “While abuse is obvious, victims of manipulation don’t even realize they are being manipulated because the manipulator masks their behavior as positive, caring and nurturing,” she says.  Read The Full Article Here

These type of people – and both men and women can be Master Manipulators – hone in on your buttons and triggers and then use them to their advantage. I’ve seen and heard of stories where men and women have encountered these types of people. The thing to remember is that these people rarely change. No amount of confrontation or even gentle hints will get them to adjust their behavior. They do not – or can not – believe they aren’t the person they believe themselves to be. Trying to one up them, telling them off or getting revenge is pointless. They will get off on it.

Again, I fully admit I might be projecting out the wazoo here. But people don’t just become Manipulators overnight or out of the blue. There are enough signs here that make me think this guy might be manipulating her. I do not in any way know if he is. This was a topic I wanted to cover when I read the article I included above.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating a Manipulator, Latests Posts, The Svengali

Could You Master The Master Manipulator?

March 22, 2011 by Leave a Comment

Name: NERDgirl  |  | Location: Atlanta , GA |Question: First I’ll start with background info: over the past 2 years a male friend and I have gotten closer, hanging out, spending time at each other’s apartments, going on “dates” etc…We already expressed that we “liked” each other and clearly enjoyed spending time with one another. Perfect. One night via text message he asked if I wanted him to be honest, of course I said yes. He said that he had been “considering taking things more seriously” with me which I assumed meant that he was trying to gauge whether he wanted me to be his girlfriend. Fine. But in the same message he says he’s not ready to be serious with someone….ok?? I asked if he felt like I was pressuring him in any way and he said “I don’t feel any pressure from you and I love that about you”…ok?? He later goes on to say that he’s scared and doesn’t know if he’s mature enough to handle a relationship with me which is completely okay with me since I NEVER even brought up the boyfriend/girlfriend thing with him. My question is why would he even bring all of this up if I never talked about it or hinted at it and he claimed that he never felt any subliminal pressure from me about it? Was I supposed to say that I wanted to be his girlfriend? Was this some strange kind of “test”? I’m so confused. If you can help please do.  |Age: 21

I want to say right off the bat that I think my response is going to be heavily influenced by personal experience. I’m going to say what jumped out at me and what I think, but I really want you to pay just as if not more attention to the people leaving comments. I think they are more objective.

He said that he had been “considering taking things more seriously” with me which I assumed meant that he was trying to gauge whether he wanted me to be his girlfriend. Fine. But in the same message he says he’s not ready to be serious with someone….ok??

There. Right there.  This line tripped my trigger. There’s something very, very manipulative about this sentence. As if he’s dangling a carrot on a string in front of you in order to make you jump. It reminds me of this, something a man in the recent past said to me while we were in the midst of an argument. .

and if this conversation had gone differently, we’d be happily exchanging emails over the weekend until seeing each other again next week.

This is an example of someone trying to make you feel guilty for questioning their intentions or standing up to them. Of course, context is key, but I’m not going to publish the whole exchange. Statements like this are used – depending on the context – to keep the other person in line and make them unsteady. The point is to keep you in the place where you’re so twisted up you don’t know what’s real and you begin to question your own judgment to the point where you become reliant and dependent on the manipulator’s opinion and approval.

“I don’t feel any pressure from you and I love that about you”…

Translation: Don’t pressure me. Even if I say things that imply I want more from you or that there’s an intimacy between us, don’t push. I’ll come around in my own time. Maybe. I think. If you’re lucky. You don’t actually have to bring anything up or express your feelings. He obviously knows how you feel. Maybe he even feels the same way. I don’t know. But don’t think that, because you’re not acting clingy or needy or because you think you’re playing it cool, that he isn’t picking up on anything. The fact is…it’s not really okay with you that he’s expressing possible interest and at the same time expressing uncertainty. If it were okay, you wouldn’t be writing in to us.

Now, since you told me via email that this guy is 22, this might not be a situation where you’re being manipulated. He could just be young and/or inexperienced. But behavior like this starts somewhere. It continues if said behavior achieves the person the desired results. Which is why you need to take control of the situation.

But let’s forget about him for a minute. I’ll get back to how you take control in a second.

Let’s talk about you. You’re devoting time trying to figure out him. But..what about you? What do you want from this situation? You’re allowing this guy to monopolize your thoughts about a situation that equally involves you. That’s the other thing that jumps out at me, as it’s common in dynamics where someone is being manipulated. One person has all the control, using it over the other, leaving that person confused and unsure of themselves.

I may be a big advocate of texting to ask people out and for preliminary/simple conversations. But this is not an example of that. Sure, he could be afraid of you rejecting him. He is young, after all.  But why would he be afraid if you two had already been spending time together going on “dates” (whatever that means.) See, this feels controlling to me, too. You’re not getting to see his reactions. After all this time “growing closer” (your perception, btw) why wouldn’t he feel comfortable enough having this conversation in person?

The test to see what this guy’s deal is is to take control. You need to ask him why he would bring this up if, as he said, you’ve never sent him any messages. You need to ask him what he wants or expects from you. DO NOT start this conversation off by complimenting him or telling him how you feel. DO NOT allow him to be privy to what you’re thinking JUST YET. LET HIM REVEAL FIRST. I know to some this might sound like a game, and I admit that it is to some degree. But it’s more about self-preservation. If you let a Manipulator in to your head, he’ll rummage around and find any and everything he can to use against you.

The way to tell if you’re dealing with a Manipulator is to call them out, challenge them. If they try to turn the tables, place blame, deflect or threaten to walk in either an overt or passive aggressive way, there’s a really good chance this person is a Manipulator. By challenging them you’re putting their ego in question. And they won’t stand for that. Which brings me to a great article I read yesterday. I read this article yesterday morning and found myself nodding along with every point. I recognized almost every sign.

The type of guy Christine was dealing with is all too common, but there’s nothing “normal” about it, says Dr. Mary Casey, author of “How to Deal With Master Manipulators”. “Manipulators aim to control their partners by pressing the buttons that get them emotional, whether it be making them feel afraid, unworthy, stupid, insecure, angry or frustrated,” she says. But because manipulators are typically passive-aggressive in their tactics, unlike domestic abuse, it can be difficult to tell when you’re in a manipulative relationship. “While abuse is obvious, victims of manipulation don’t even realize they are being manipulated because the manipulator masks their behavior as positive, caring and nurturing,” she says.  Read The Full Article Here

These type of people – and both men and women can be Master Manipulators – hone in on your buttons and triggers and then use them to their advantage. I’ve seen and heard of stories where men and women have encountered these types of people. The thing to remember is that these people rarely change. No amount of confrontation or even gentle hints will get them to adjust their behavior. They do not – or can not – believe they aren’t the person they believe themselves to be. Trying to one up them, telling them off or getting revenge is pointless. They will get off on it.

Again, I fully admit I might be projecting out the wazoo here. But people don’t just become Manipulators overnight or out of the blue. There are enough signs here that make me think this guy might be manipulating her. I do not in any way know if he is. This was a topic I wanted to cover when I read the article I included above.

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Filed Under: Dating a Manipulator, Latests Posts, The Emotional Vampire, The Svengali, Uncategorized