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Do Men Consider Women In Their 40′s Relationship Material?

April 24, 2013 by 162 Comments

Name: NBKEYBOARDACCESS

Comment: Moxie,

I’m a 40 yo single woman who has usually had a boyfriend, hence, I just started online dating about 5 months ago. Needless to say, it has been a disappointing and discouraging experience. I’ve never proactively dated, so I’m on the naive side. I do look 6-10 years younger,(and yes, I know every girl says this, but I’m happy to attach pictures to confirm)and am often asked out by men in their late 20′s to early 30′s. I recognize that these men have no interest in a relationship, but I’m always up for a fun night so I occasionally go. When I first started online dating the endless parade of dates was fun and exciting, but it got exhausting fast. 80% of them were unattractive or incompatible, and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand. Mind you, OKC was my site of choice.. so now I’m trying to limit myself to men who want more than a one night stand and to that end, will be upgrading from OKC to match.

My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material, or should I limit myself to 45+ yo men? As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand.

I’m going to blown your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.
My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material,

For the most part? No. Certainly not if they want children. But you’ll pursue them anyway, I’m sure because you’re convinced that you look young enough to be considered relationship material by them. That’s why you made it a point to mention your youthful appearance. You were setting up your defense. (And mind you, I wrote that part before I even read that last line.)

should I limit myself to 45+ yo men?

I don’t know if I would say that you should “limit” yourself to them. I think a better word is “focus.” You should direct your attention and efforts to meeting men in the 45+ range if you seek something committed and long term. If you seek a relationship, then you need to be looking at the Divorced Dad crowd and the guys in their mid/late forties to early fifties. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I don’t understand this whole thing about not wanting to date guys in their mid-forties. Yes, I know. You’re really active and fit and still dance like nobody’s watching, like when you were 25. You know what is the best thing about dating men 45 and older? They actually want you. Unlike those 38 year olds you’re hanging your hopes on who might date you for a few months until someone younger comes along. Because she will.

As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.

Nope. They pretty much still prefer younger women. The ones who are open to dating a woman of 40+ are in pretty high demand. If you want them, then be ready to go to the mattresses, because you will have stiff competition. Age trumps hotness, I’m afraid. Except with the younger guys. They just want to bang you for the story and experience.

I realize that this isn’t what you wanted to hear. But the fact is that you’ve had a string of boyfriends and nothing appears to have resulted in what you wanted. Or maybe it did and you’re just looking for a guy to date for a little while. I don’t know. What I know is that you’re now 40 and you’re doing what you can to find reasons why you can’t meet someone appropriate. It’s not OK Cupid’s fault. Welcome to dating at 40. Match isn’t going to be much different, especially if you try to get the guy in his thirties. This is what it’s like. You had 15+ years to find your Mr. Right. For whatever reason, none of those worked out in the way you wanted. Now you’re hoping that lightening will strike again.

The problem isn’t an algorithm or a website. You’re grappling with facing the reality that this is how dating is for you now. I’ve noticed that the women who return to the dating scene at some point in the last few years struggle the most. The dating landscape has changed and will continue to change change rapidly. It’s just..harder now. Especially for women our age. I’ve said this before: the 37-44 year old men in Manhattan and even Brooklyn aren’t looking for us. You’re going to have to branch out and start looking in Connecticut and New Jersey or even further. If you insist on local, then you have to channel your search and make yourself available to the 45-50 crowd. A lot of men 40-45 are still hanging on to the possibility of having children. Even if that pang to reproduce is faint, those guys are going to naturally seek out women they believe are of optimum child bearing age.

Dating isn’t like a vending machine. When the last Snickers bar is gone, the universe doesn’t magically put 10 more in your path. Your choice is to wait around for someone to come along and refill that option or select the Twizzler or Baby Ruth. Yeah, it’s not what you originally wanted. Someone came along before you and bought that Snickers before you could have a chance. That’s what it’s like to date at 40 in Manhattan or probably any other major city where there is an overage of single women to single men.

You can continue to pursue the late thirties to early forties guy. I’m not saying that getting one of them to commit is impossible. What you have to ask yourself is whether the frustration you will experience by holding out for them is worth your time. You also have to consider is whether or not you want to take those hits and run the risk of becoming less available and more impatient. There really is nothing more sad than listening to a woman in her mid-thirties and older complain about online dating and dating in general. The stench of bravado and remorse in her words is a pungent one.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, Older Women/Younger Men, On OK Cupid, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

In Dating, Does Water Truly Seek Its Own Level?

March 18, 2013 by 14 Comments

Name: Clarissa
Age: 25
City: boston
State: massachusetts
Comment: I have been in a relationship with this guy for 3 months. We were together before but we broke up. Now we decided to get back together and that our feelings are still there. We tell each other that we love each other and we check up on each other. But my only issue is that he is really needy. He always needs me to do something for him and it gets annoying.I don’t like when people are very needy especially when they have a job or the proper resources and they feel that you have to help them with everything. He is also very controlling and whenever I fuss he gets really mad and tells me to stop acting different. Which I’m not, I am just speaking my mind. Now he is really listening and trying more. but it won’t be long before he goes back to being the same way. He is always partying and at his friends house. And I can only see him on his time. Like if I go somewhere he has to know with who and where. Or he will just randomly pick a day to come over my house. I hate it. Every time I tell him I am about to leave or i start to pull away or call less he starts begging and saying sorry or saying how much he misses me. It’s like how many times can you say sorry. I’m starting to get tired of him. And even though I love him these things are pushing me to the edge. One day he called me out of nowhere and said babe where are you. I want to see you, and meet your family. I asked him if he was OK because he wasn’t into meeting my family for a short time in our relationship. After that day he has become very clingy. Two days after he was sad about something and I gave him advice and talked to him. And he wouldn’t let me go to sleep. He kept calling me saying he couldn’t go to sleep without talking to his babe. Then the next morning he just kept texting me all day and being loving. Which he does. No lie. And then after that day he went back to his old self. I feel like he is afraid of commitment. And he is backing off a little out of fear. But what do I know. What are your honest thoughts? Because I am on my last straw.and i really want to be with him but how more can you take.

You two are clearly incompatible. You have very different personalities and thresholds for certain behavior. So much so that I’m trying to figure out what you saw in each other in the first place.

I remember be at a happy hour with co-workers back when I worked a regular 9 to 5 job. One of the guys was saying how most people were average looking. Or as he referred to them, “a solid 5 or 6.” He pointed out a couple of women at the bar and assigned them a number on his sliding scale of hotness. Then he said, “My girlfriend is average. I’m a little above average.” There went my belief that every man found their girlfriend or wife beautiful. My stomach developed a knot thinking that, if he made such an obnoxious comment publicly, what the hell did he say privately. Or worse…to her face.

I had met his girlfriend a few times and did often wonder what the attraction was. As much as I hated to admit it, he was a very good looking – if arrogant -  guy. Lookswise he could have scored a woman who was more objectively “hot.” But the real confusion came to their personalities and lifestyles. They seemed like polar opposites in every possible way. The point that stuck out to me most is that he was so disciplined when it came to what he ate and working out and she was a little overweight and out of shape. She had actually expressed insecurity about her body another time we had been together socializing. I imagine it must have been difficult to be struggling with your own body image issues as your partner fastidiously stuck to a diet and work out regime. I toyed with the idea that he enjoyed passive aggressively torturing her with his fixation on his body. That’s something that has always puzzled me: how does someone so focused on their own fitness reconcile with being with someone who doesn’t share the same mind set? Could it be that there really was something psychological at work there? A type of gaslighting, perhaps?

It wasn’t until many, many years later as I reflected on that pairing did it start to make sense to me. I wondered if he preferred a woman who was non-threatening. Was his ego too fragile to endure having it challenged? Is that, like, a real thing? Was his relationship an example of water seeking its own level?

I think that sometimes attraction has nothing to do with the physical and everything to do with the mental. Subconsciously – or maybe in some cases even consciously – we seek out people who won’t intimidate us or make us feel inadequate. Or who make us feel needed. Or who make us feel superior. And so on.

My point, OP, is that even to the casual observer, your relationship doesn’t appear to be working. It seems the obvious answer is to break up. I would encourage you to ask yourself what you really found so attractive about this guy in the first place. Is it possible that his needy, weak behavior somehow compliments your domineering and, well, cold demeanor? Maybe you are with him because he’s someone who, because of his own limitations,  accepts you as is?

Just something to consider.

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Break Ups, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Mental Health/Illness, Dating & Weight, Dating a Manipulator, Dating Advice

How Long Should You Wait For The Second Date?

March 17, 2013 by 65 Comments

Name: Scott
Age: 30
City: New York
State: NY
Comment: So I’ve decided to get back on the sauce and once again use a fairly popular, well-known internet dating website that’s free…Yes, I’ve been going out with a few women, with mixed success, and thankfully enjoying the experience for the most part without getting too exhausted and/or frustrated.

Last night, I was pleasantly surprised to have a first date which I initially thought wouldn’t go anywhere turn out to be excellent…instead of having the typical one round of drinks and calling it a night, we ended up having four rounds, and our conversation flowed smoothly as we opened up and got to know one another…as I got the sense that she was enjoying my company and somewhat into me, just as I was into her, I asked her if she would be interested in seeing me again.  I’m in my 30’s now; I’m not into the dating games and am fairly clear with my intentions, and she was in her mid-20’s and respected the fact that I’m a bit older and have my act together (for the most part).   She seemed receptive to getting together again, and I suggested getting together the upcoming weekend – we went out on a Wednesday night, so it seemed like an appropriate amount of time.

When she indicated the weekend was not looking good, I suggested the following week, and she seemed hesitant, and said she was pretty booked.  Now, I understand how someone can easily book 7 dates for each night of the week, and I’m not implying that she did that.  When she suggested that we meet a week and a half later, I mentioned something like, “I’m going to have to wait a week and a half to see you again?”  Keep in mind as well that she’s relatively new to the site, having signed up about a month ago, but she was the one who initially contacted me on the site.  After my comment, she checked her schedule again and she realized she was free on Tuesday, so we agreed on getting dinner that night.

However, I’m wondering what your thoughts are with respect to waiting too long for that second date…If she were to make me wait, let’s say a week and a half, when there was no discernible excuse like going out of town, studying for a test, etc. etc., then would that be too long to wait and a sign that she wasn’t really into me, as I had thought?  Do you think my comment about waiting a week and a half compelled her to “free” up a night, because she sensed I would lose interest?  What’s your take?

I generally feel like after a successful first date, barring any exigent circumstances, i.e. catering to out of town guests, out of town trips, heavy work loads, etc., you shouldn’t have to wait more than a week to see someone you’re interested in.   What say you?

 

My take is that she’s new to the site and probably, since she’s in her mid twenties, getting a lot of offers. I don’t think she’s any more interested in you than she would be any other guy she met on there.

Here’s the thing: when a woman is into a guy, she finds excuses to free her schedule. That’s it. She doesn’t tell a man she’s booked. That is, unless she’s trying to play hard to get and/or not terribly interested. She could have been trying to seem aloof and like she has options. I tend to think that women like this are more invested in the chase and the attention than anything else. Either way, her response doesn’t bode well for you.

I’m not sure if all of this back and forth happened the same night of your first date or what. If so, yikes. You came on pretty strong. If this whole conversation happened while you two were face to face after that first date, I’m thinking she felt kind of awkward and uncomfortable. If that’s the case, she might have agreed to see you Tuesday just to get away from you and planned on cancelling once she got home.

In the future, when a woman says she’s booked, just reply back and say, “No problem. Get back to me when you know your schedule.”  Don’t offer commentary like, “I have to wait a week and a half to see you again?” It just makes you seem overly invested and aggressive given you only had one date. Not only that but you really shouldn’t have to convince someone to want to see you again. That, too, is a bad sign. My guess is she wasn’t 100% psyched to go out with you again, was trying politely to get out of it, and you pushed a bit. That or her plans cancelled and she had nothing to do so she figured, “Why not?” I wouldn’t be surprised if you followed in the comments and told me that she cancelled on you. Like I said, if we like you, we make time for you. If she had been on the same page as you you wouldn’t have sensed hesitation. You would have sensed antici….pation. (Rocky Horror reference!)

I think a lapse of a week and a half after the first date ruins the momentum. There’s too much time between meetings for things to develop naturally. You want to be able to build on whatever attraction and compatibility is present in person, and rather soon. Suggesting to a date that you and they should get together again over the weekend following the first date sounds reasonable to me. I used to think that suggesting a second date within the next 2 or 3 days after the first date was too much, but that’s changed. Time is of the essence. If the connection and attraction is there, go for it. Within reason, of course. Don’t become all clingy and barrage them with texts, don’t suggest a date the next night,but do something to let your interest be known.

What was considered “too available” a few years ago doesn’t necessarily stand now because of how intense and fast the process of meeting and connecting has become.

Now, to touch on your distinction that she messaged you first and therefore that is an indicator of her interest level. You’re rationalizing. The online experience and the offline experience are two separate animals. Your profile is a one dimensional representation of who you are and nothing more. She probably sent a few messages to different men. I can assure you that her investment level was minimal, as it should be since she hadn’t even met you yet.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating Advice, Dating Realities, Dating Skills, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips, Rejection, Social Rules of Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Sexy Isn’t A Compliment & Sarcastic Isn’t Attractive

March 8, 2013 by 10 Comments

Name: E
Comment: I’m new to online dating, and I wanted to know how flirty should you be on emails?

So far I’ve had a couple of messages from men lead into them saying that I’m sexy. In person, I would have a flirty response that wouldn’t be taken too seriously but would let them know that I was interested; however, online, it seems difficult to relay that without insinuating if we me meet, there will be sex.

Also, I’m finding it difficult to translate who I am (witty/sarcastic) online. In one case, I made a joke and it ended with me apologizing because they thought I meant something else; it was a debacle of an exchange.  Can you provide a scenario/sample flirty response?

Also, am I right to assume that if I’m called sexy without much banter that their sole purpose is sex? I would buy “attractive” or “pretty” but “sexy” seems to pour it on.

Thanks for your advice!
Age: 30
City: Jacksonville
State: FL

 

There are two types of men that tell a woman they just met that she is sexy.

Type One: The socially awkward guy who thinks that complimenting the looks of a woman they just met is appropriate. In my book, it’s not.

Type Two: The guy who, as a male friend says, “just wants to get right to it.” The use of the word sexy is intention and meant to get you thinking in a sexual way.

Take a look at the comments on this thread over at XOJane. Now, this woman pretty much admitted she’s a trainwreck when it comes to dating. Yet look at how many White Knights jump in to tell her how hot she is. Yes, she’s attractive. But she could have said she likes to strap bombs to her chest and walk into playgrounds and these guys would still be all up in her business about how gorgeous she was. Those guys use compliments to get on her good side. It smacks of trying too hard.

Personally, if a man addressed me as sexy, or commented on how sexy I was in the first few initial emails, I’d bail. That is, unless I knew with great certainty that I wanted to have sex with him and therefore opened that door for him to walk through. Then I’d go along to get along.  I’d reply with something demure like, “Aww. That made my day. Thanks! So, how about [subject change.]” But those cases are rare. The guys who know how to play the game don’t typically go there. The ones who don’t, well, they do. Since I’m not a fan of being involved with men who wear training wheels, I usually just stop responding or suddenly come up with a reason why I ‘m “taking time off from online dating.” Then I just block him. Guys who go the “sexy” route just seem juvenile and inexperienced to me. It’s a delicate dance, and if a man is going to need me to lead that early, I have no time for him. Then there’s the fact that these men see nothing wrong with sexualizing and objectifying a stranger. No, I don’t take it as a compliment that you think I have beautiful calves or a hot mouth. Nor do I need you, Internet Stranger, to enlighten me on all the ways my physical appearance is arousing.

So, E., to summarize, I’d ignore men who go this route with you via email. Not worth your time. They’ll either require a great deal of handling or they’re shit testing trying to gauge the level of difficulty involved with getting you into bed. or they’re just lying because they’re desperate. Who wants to be with someone like that?

I would also pay close attention to the messages (both the written ones and the underlying ones) that you send in your profile and email communications. Often I hear women talk about how guys say something dripping with innuendo “out of the blue.” Mmmm….no. I mean, yes, some dudes are just that boorish and stupid. But just as often the woman has said something she knows will be taken in a sexual way. Then when she’s called on it, so to speak, she starts clutching her pearls and fanning her face. If you put something out there that can in any way be construed as sexual, expect a lot of men to jump through that door you just opened.

I would avoid trying to wow people with your personality in the initial email exchanges. There’s too much that can go wrong with that. Keep it as simple as possible. I would also avoid any references to how sassy or sarcastic you are. That’s another one of those buzz words I consider a red flag if I see it in a profile or in email exchanges. Sarcasm is extremely difficult to convey in writing. Which is why people who use it tend to tip their hand as to how lacking in self-awareness they are. I’m a god damn barrel of monkeys, but you won’t see blatant examples of that in my profile. I focus on aspects of my personality that I feel men find important – I’m kind, I’m nurturing, I’m healthy,  I’m intelligent, I’m strong,  I like sex. Boom. Done. I have my filters in place to ward off guys I know I won’t be compatible with offline. I still get the occasional message from a Beta type. Delete. Block. Not for me. For the most part I hear from and get responses/meet men my speed. The profile is the teaser. It’s not a bio or resume.

Neither men nor women should try to be flirty or sexy or funny or aloof at any time online.  Be cordial, be polite, be engaging,  be vague, don’t get into to much detail about personal history and movie it offline ASAP. Never invest too much time or effort in these messages. The goal is to get offline. Stay online too long and you’ll get too comfortable and develop unreasonable expectations.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Beware, Dating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,

Dating & Stereotypes: What’s Your Learning Curve?

March 7, 2013 by 25 Comments

Name: David
Comment: Hi Moxie, I recall you mentioned that as a dating blogger you have difficulties finding suitable mates.

How about being a psychologist? I had great conversations and wonderful first dates until I revealed (when asked for my occupation and education) that I am a psychologist with a PhD.

In addition, even before revealing the above, when I say to City dates that I live on Staten Island, it seems to be the end of the encounter, either in person (e.g. speed dating) or on a dating site. I am fit, attractive, and own a car.

Your advice?
Thanks.
Age: 44
City: Staten Island
State: NY

 

There are two separate issues here.

Let;s tackle the non-problem of your career. My ex is a psychologist. Personally, I loved being with someone who not only appreciated and understood my need to analyze things, but encouraged it. However, I can see why some people might find that intimidating. As I said in a recent post, no matter what you do for a living, there is going to be somebody out there who will not date you because of it. If anything you should use your job as a filter of some kind to help you determine compatibility.

Yep, some people won’t date me because of what I do and some people only want to date me because what I do. That’s life. I think the problem is that people mature believing that they have far more options than they actually do.  There will always be stereotypes and biases applied to us that cause us to be pursued, judged or dismissed. Lawyers deal with it. Finance people deal with it. Fireman deal with it. If someone recoils or stops showing interest once you reveal what you do for a living, it’s because they are either intimidated or ignorant themselves, as they live their lives basing decisions on stereotypes. If they aren’t even willing to give you a chance, they’re not worth your time.

Speaking of stereotypes, let’s tackle the second issue in your letter. Unfortunately, inhabitants of Staten Island are typically perceived as simple and boorish. There’s another issue in this specific scenario because many people tend to envision the “typical” Staten Island resident to be Italian and to possess the “typical” personality traits of Italian people i.e. loud and ignorant. (Please watch A Bronx Tale. The Robert Deniro character is also an example of the “typical” Italian male. Quiet but strong, hard working and devoted to family. We’re not all loud-mouth and violent gangsters with mob ties. Kthanxs.)

The other problem is that you live outside of the city. I dread bringing this up as it will just arouse and awaken all the whiny dudes in Queens who like to cry elitist. Boo hoo. You have to understand, OP, that people who attend an event in Manhattan or any other major city want to meet people who live in that particular city. Not Queens or Long Island or Astoria.They don’t want to deal with the commute and all the stress that comes with it.  On the opposite end of this expectation are the people who live in Jersey and Queens who attend Manhattan events and get upset because they didn’t meet a bunch of Patrick Batemans and Mr. Bigs. They, too, struggle to find someone suitable.

The trouble with relying so heavily on stereotypes is that, while there usually is a layer of validity to the stereotype, the image and assumptions constructed are not based on reality. They are usually an extension of our personal opinions and desires. What hinders dating most is the unreasonable expectations that we have the tendency to develop based on ideas we have in our head.

I’ll never forget meeting a guy on OKC. In one of our pre-date conversations, I gave him the link to this web site. He took a tour and read dozens of posts. In his search he came across one of the password protected posts. He emailed me and asked for access to the post entitled “Too Many Cocks.” I assumed he made a typo, as the post was actually entitled, ‘Too Many Cooks.” Suffice to say that this guy had assumed I was some kind of Slutty OKC Unicorn -attractive, intelligent, sexual and interested in extreme sexual acts. When I wasn’t as “open” as he thought I would be, he balked. All it took was to read a blog title too quickly to cause him to manufacture an image of me in his mind that did not exist.

Equally counter-productive is to look at a photo and assume that you’ll be meeting someone who looks exactly like that picture. As a good friend once commented, a photo is nothing more than a moment in time.You can’t expect someone to appear or behave exactly like how you assumed (or hoped) they would because of a couple of one-dimensional representations. There needs to be a learning curve of sorts. If you dismiss someone because you have a specific idea of how they should look or act and most people don’t meet that image, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

My advice, David, is this: If you want to date a woman who lives in the city, move to the city. Either that or accept the fact that where you live and what you do will be used against you and will thereby limit your options. Just keep in mind that everybody’s options are limited. Your assumption that other people have it easier is false. Pretty much everybody struggles to meet someone. It’s the people who accept that their audience is smaller that experience the least frustration and has more success.

 

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , ,

Can Someone Be The One After One Date?

February 11, 2013 by 26 Comments

Name: Denny Laine
Age: 44
State: New York City
Question: I have a minor question regarding our favorite holiday: Valentine’s Day. I had a great first date last week with someone I met online. She could possibly be “the one” for me. We hit it off on the phone, hit it off in person, and since then we’ve been constantly texting and e-mailing. We made plans to see each other again on Wednesday. I had suggested hanging out Thursday not realizing it was Valentine’s Day. She said Wednesday would be better for her so we agreed. I realize that flowers and love letters and being Valentine’s might be too soon after just one date. But at the same time I want to somehow acknowledge it, that VD is the next day because there’s a good chance we can become a long term couple. I have some ideas. Or should I just let it pass and wait for next year? Any thoughts from anyone?

 

Ok. You need to slow down, Captain. First, let’s revisit your history a little, shall we?

This question was submitted by you:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2011/10/26/is-he-too-nice-thats-why-he-cant-get-a-2nd-date/

And this one:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2013/01/12/how-to-tell-if-theyre-a-dating-liability/

And this one:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2011/09/28/guest-post-cock-blocked/

And here is a recent comment from you from last month.

Denny, you have only had one date with this woman. It seems like you get ridiculously invested with every woman with whom you have a decent first date. If you asked this woman to get together on Thursday aka Valentine’s Day and she said Wednesday works better, she’s telling you she feels it would be weird for you two to have your second date on Valentine’s Day. Which, sorry to say, is not  a good sign. She’s turning down the opportunity to tell people she has a date on Valentine’s Day. Many women live for that shit. So you have to ask yourself why she doesn’t want to get together on Thursday.She either is not on the same page as you or has another date. Neither of which bode well for you. These are the things you need to learn to deduce so that you can gauge where you stand and appropriate expectations.

It’s hard to navigate a situation like this. You don’t want to come off too detached or disinterested, but you also don’t want to give the impression that you might skin a woman and wear her as a suit. Right now, you’re tip toeing in skin her and wear her as a suit territory. You’re already considering V-Day 2014. Sorry, but that’s a little scary.

If she wanted you to acknowledge the upcoming holiday, she’d have accepted the V-Day date. I’m sorry to say this so bluntly (no I’m not) but I’m guessing she’s not as into you as you think. If you push the V-Day idea, this woman will back off. I’m going to speculate that you’re coming on too strong and it’s making her uncomfortable. I’m also going to throw out there that you do this a lot, which is why you have such trouble keeping a woman around. I have told you before that I feel you come off weak and needy. Those are two things that will automatically get you friend zoned and blown off. You need to learn how not to get so attached and invested so quickly. It’s not healthy.

You’ve been out with this person ONCE. You have NO IDEA if there is any substantive long term potential. I think you’re so used to being blown off early that you haven’t had enough experience with the early dating process. What you need to do is detach a bit. Go back online and find someone else and start engaging them. Do anything you can to distract you from thinking about this woman if only to temper what has to be perceived by women as too interested. Do not acknowledge Valentine’s Day in any way other than maybe in passing via a text conversation that day. But don’t start that conversation off with “Happy V-Day!” You’ll send her a text the morning after your date and say, “Hey, had fun last night. How about we meet up on Xday for whatever.” She will either reply and say yes or no. If she says yes, then make plans. Then and only them, as you’re signing off, wish her a Happy Valentine’s Day.  You can’t make a big deal of this. You just can’t. If she acts all schmoopy woopy with you on that second date, then maybe you can send her a cute e-card the next day. But that’s it. You should not be spending any money on this or making it into a production.

Denny, the pattern here with you is clear. You get too invested and likely give off a really off putting vibe. You have to become more self-aware and pay more attention to what I can only assume a glaring red flags of moderate interest from these women. You’re pinning all your hopes on every single woman who shows interest. I realize how great it feels to feel like someone is out there thinking about you or that you some how matter to someone. That can be intoxicating, especially if you go a long time without it. But you have to understand that things that are said and done in those early stages are either disingenuous or done without any real thought. People can get caught up, or they like the attention or they’re just otherwise insensitive and thoughtless.

It all means nothing until it means something. Please try to remember that.

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Realities, Dating Skills Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Moxie 101: After 35, You Just Don’t Get To Be So Picky

February 6, 2013 by 63 Comments

Name: JaneF
Age: 45
State: FL
Question: I find it impossible to meet anyone of quality. I’ve tried online, offline, inline, outtaline, you name it.
I’m slender, pretty, and fun, over 40 but playful and ‘young’ for my age and not attracted to anyone 50+ or 250lbs+  (I’ve tried!). I’m friendly, smiley, attractive, smart and get attention from men…it’s me who doesn’t like them, not the opposite.I’m friendly, smiley, attractive, smart and get attention from men…it’s me who doesn’t like them, not the opposite.
Yeah, I have “baggage” (who doesn’t?) – I’m divorced, gainfully employed, and share custody of the two most amazing, happy, delightful kids imaginable -we’re very close, but they are 1 year away from leaving home and I am looking for a true love to share my life with. I’ve been divorced for ages, and looking for 4 years since losing my long-term BF (no, there’s no chance of reconciliation- he’s engaged- to someone with no kids).

I see so many red flags when dating someone new and have come to the conclusion I’m just a bad “fit” for men here (FL) who are used to flashy, shallow golddiggers who throw themselves at man, and just expect the same from me. (again, the “fit” issue) I expect courtship and old-fashioned romance, but that’s gone the way of the dinosaur. I see some of my friends’ husbands are good guys, but I’ve not met any single guys of strong character (and I’m not interested in stealing someone else’s man, I have a strict moral code).

I’ve tried meetup. Grocery stores. Bookstores. Asking friends to fix me up. Social media. You name it. That saying “all the good ones are taken” is absolutely true. (Or gay). Ok, so tell me I’m wrong, or that there is something I can do differently and get a different result. I’m open to and appreciate gentle suggestions – just don’t beat me up – I’m fragile and sensitive ;) I’d even relocate if I met the perfect guy, which is something I’d never consider til now (now that the kids are grown).

I’m convinced there’s a better place where men are honest, faithful, spiritual, respectful, smart and sexually attractive – it’s called Oz. Just kidding. Am I on crack, or does a place like this exist – do I just have to drastically lower my standards and date men I don’t even respect or give it up and retire an old maid?

 

I’m slender, pretty, and fun, over 40 but playful and ‘young’ for my age and not attracted to anyone 50+ or 250lbs+  (I’ve tried!).

Try harder. You’re 45. Your target age range, if you’re looking for a long term relationship, is roughly 47-57. Yes, you’re going to have to make some concessions if you seek a committed relationship. I’m sorry to seem curt, but I simply can’t keep answering letters like this. I can’t. I can’t keep saying that you need to choose wisely when you get married or when you commit to someone. I can’t keep saying that fewer men are committing and therefore you need to refocus your energies and re-evaluate these so-called standards you have.

It’s not that all the good ones are taken. It’s that all the good ones you want are either taken or don’t want you. There. Fixed that for you. There are plenty of great guys out there who seek a relationship with a 45 year old divorcee with kids. Unfortunately for you, they all fall under your undesirable category. Yes, you’re going to lower your drastically out of whack standards. Sorry, but that’s your only recourse here. That and get a more accurate perception of what your value is in your particular market. 45. Divorced. With kids. If you seek a serious relationship, you’re probably going to have more luck focusing on the Divorced Dad market. Guys your age or a couple years old who don’t have children don’t have them for a reason: they don’t want them. They also don’t want to take on the added responsibility of being financially responsible for another man’s children. Yes. I know. That wouldn’t be the case. Unfortunately, many men won’t believe you. And let’s be honest…that wouldn’t be entirely true. At some point, if you and a man get serious, he will be shelling out money for your kids in some way.

I am looking for a true love to share my life with

But…you already had a true love. That guy you married, remember? Weren’t you going to have true love with him and share your life with him? What happened there and what makes you think that a) you deserve another shot at it and b) you’ll be any better at it the next time around? Look, you might be everything you say you are. A catch and a half. That’s not the issue. The issue is this entitlement you appear to feel about how every lid has a pot, etc. You might have to settle for great companionship. It’s not what you want to hear, but it’s the truth.

As for whether or not you should give up, that’s a personal choice. I do think you’ll need to make changes. Maybe that includes moving or maybe that involves lowering your standards. I don’t know. If you’re using all these mediums and outlets to try and meet someone and nothing is working, obviously changes need to be made.

Whatever you do, you need to confront this fear you have of ending up alone. Because..you might. Dating just so you can alleviate this fear of dying alone in your home and having cats eat your face off rarely ends well.

 

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Filed Under: Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating After Divorce, Dating In a Big City, Dating Over 40, Dating Realities, Dating Skills, Humblebrag Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Here’s Why You Never Reveal That You Cheated

January 31, 2013 by 39 Comments

What if you cheated on your ex-spouse. I’m not talking about serial philanderer, but you got involved with someone and it lead to the end of the marriage.

When would you tell a new love interest…sooner or later?

If you were the new love interest, would you continue seeing someone who told they’d cheated? – jp?

You wouldn’t tell your new love interest. You’d never go into details about why your marriage ended other than to say something vague like you grew apart.

If your ex is especially vindictive, she might spill that can of beans. If you feel that might happen, you wait until absolutely necessary to come clean. When you do, you tell the truth. You don’t make anything up or make your ex out to be a shrew or a psycho. If you messed up, own it. But do not make a martyr of yourself and offer this information under the guise of being honest or whatever other nonsense you read in some magazine or on a website.The only reason you’d be doing it is to beat your ex to the punch or out of a fear of being caught. If you know enough women, you learn that all that yammering about wanting to know the truth is a crock. They don’t. They can’t handle it no matter how much they insist they can.

Remember…women will tell you to be honest because they want to see you fail and hate the idea of being duped and deceived. Nobody likes that, obviously. It’s bad enough to know that a guy made a fool of you. It’s much, much worse when you believe (or rationalize) that you were fooled or humiliated by another woman.

Keep this news to yourself. No good can come from it. No, you will not score points with your refreshing honesty. You’ll stir up a shit storm that will never calm back down. The woman you tell will never trust you again. If your ex wants to be the one to reveal that, let her. Then you’re a victim and you’ll have a better chance of using the tried and true, “I was just unhappy but that all changed when I met you, baby” line. Which will work on most women because, again, women are competitive with other women. We like the idea of beating out another female, even in competitions that only exist in our heads.

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Filed Under: Cheating, Critical Thinking, Dating, Dating Advice Tagged With: , , , , , , , ,

Beware The Man Who Was Burned By His Ex

January 30, 2013 by 35 Comments

Name: Peter
Age: 28
State:
Question: The last post in regards to single vs divorced is the impetus for this letter.  I am currently separated from my wife and required to live apart for 1 full year before filing for divorce in my state with 6 months down and 6 more to go.

I have listed myself as divorced on my online profiles versus separated as there is zero chance of reconciliation, although I remain legally married.  We have a separation agreement, so our assets are settled and all that is left is a court date in 6 months to tell the judge we’re done.

My problem is that being 20-something and divorced carries a stigma.  I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage.  I told her to cancel the ticket and move out or she could fly out to see the guy with the expectation of me not being here when she got back, so she moved out and cancelled the ticket last minute, keeping her options open.  A month later, she asked for a divorce, rebooked her plane ticket, and ended up moving in with the guy several states away just a few weeks later.  I found her journal on the computer when I was sorting through backup files and figuring out what files I needed to get back to her and found out before we got married she cheated on ex-boyfriends, tried to break up engaged couples, and basically fell in love with every man she ever met and manipulated them for her personal gain.  It turned out everything was an elaborate front and the woman I married never existed.

The bottom line is I was a victim in my marriage/divorce.  Before I found out she wasn’t the person she claimed to be, I told my ex-wife I’d quit my job, quit grad school, go to counseling, and do whatever else it took to save our marriage, but it was all for nothing if she wasn’t willing to put forth the effort since I couldn’t save our marriage on my own.  She told me not to do any of the above and gave up on me, which in hindsight was a good thing after finding her journal.

I live in the Bible Belt/South and the type of women I want to attract are those with strong values as my ex-wife turned out to not have any values at all.  This typically means a woman who is religious or politically conservative (of which my ex-wife was neither), which I have no problem with, but I carry the divorced stigma and get judged negatively despite the fact I was willing to give up everything to make my marriage work.  My parents are divorced and a “family history of divorce” seems to also be a red flag with  women also.

Beyond the divorce stigma, I’m a catch: I’m good looking, work out regularly, earn six figures, own a house, finish grad school in May, and I’m obviously not afraid of monogamy or commitment.  I realize that everyone my age has baggage and the key difference is how people have managed their baggage.  The only thing scarier than a man with a past is a man with no past. I don’t want to tick the box as never married and be deceptive and I don’t think it is appropriate to go into divorce details on a dating profile, but it sure would be nice if the women who weren’t emailing me back because I ticked the divorce box knew the reasons behind it without sounding like a vindictive crazy man.  If I would have had a church wedding, I’d have grounds for an annulment and would have never been married in the eyes of a church and could claim never married with an asterisk. What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

 

Here’s my question:

Do you want to date or do you want to bitch? Because it sounds like you just want to bitch. I’m not sure you should be dating at all at this juncture because you’re clearly not any where near past what your ex-wife did. This wasn’t really a letter seeking advice. You just wanted to vent. Which, I’ll tell you now, is unattractive. It’s unattractive in women and it’s unattractive in men. I understand that what she did was selfish, thoughtless and hurtful. I do and I’m sorry. But this woman didn’t become a shrew overnight. Nor did she hide it, as so many people like to say happens when they wake up one day and realize they dated an asshole. These people aren’t the cunning and calculated sociopaths we like to tell people they are. We refer to them as such because that’s a much easier pill to swallow than admit we were just blind or needy or lonely or desperate. And because it removes all responsibility from us for why we chose them.  She always was who she was. You just chose to ignore it.

Sweetheart, you’re wife picked you for a reason. Yep. She carried on affairs and manipulated you behind your back. Do you know why? Because she knew you’d either never catch on or you’d ignore it and let her do what she wanted because you feared losing her.

I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage. 

Do you understand that by doing this she was telling you she couldn’t have cared less how you felt? No matter what you said, she was going to do what she wanted to do. I guess what I’m wondering is how you fell for this girl in the first place.  You need to figure out why you married this woman or else you’re doomed to repeat this mistake.

As for the rest of your letter, TL/DR. I mean, I read it. You’re so stuck in victim mode that it was struggle to get through it. I’m guessing that this is just who you are: a professional victim. You’re whining about stigmas and your selfish ex-wife and society. People who adopt a victim mentality tend to get victimized. That’s how it works.

What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

Well, the first thing they do is to swear never to say “liar liar pants on fire” again.  This isn’t about online dating and being divorced with an asterisk. What can you do? You can stop feeling sorry for yourself, take responsibility for choosing poorly, find out why you were attracted to your ex-wife and fix the problem. There you go. Boom goes the dynamite.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Beware, Break Ups, Cheating, Closure, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating Advice, Dating After Divorce, Dating is Fun, Dating Lies, Dating Myths Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,

The Mystery of The Disappearing Dick

January 18, 2013 by 14 Comments

Name: Alexis
Age: 21
State: Georgia
Question: I’ve been talking to this guy for about a week and things were going great until he ask for “pics” of me. Our conversations were really good up until that point, I told him I don’t do that, but he kept asking. Prior to that he was telling me what he wanted to do to me. Then he sent me a “pic” and I told him what I thought about it. The other night he asked again about the pictures because he said “just one to get me off” so I told him “there are millions of other pictures that can get you off” he said that he only wanted to look at me, which is sweet, but come on. Then i just finally snapped. I told him it’s late and I’m not taking any pics. Now ever since that little conversation we haven’t been talking as much. He used to text all the time and now nothing. So now I’m thinking of that old saying “what one won’t another will”. I think since I didn’t send them he had someone else do it. He claimed he wanted something real, but what his actions are telling me a different story.

Was there a question here? It sounds like you solved the Mystery of The Disappearing Dick (Pic) all on your own. Boy meets girl. Boy talks sexy (or “sexy” since most men suck at this) in hopes of getting a woman all worked up. Girl jerks boy off via Skype or a cam or Ghat. And…scene. That’s all he wanted from the start. He wasn’t genuinely interested in you. He just was trying to get you to help him get off. He doesn’t even have to be attracted to you to do it.

I know that it sucks to have interesting conversations with someone thinking they genuinely liked talking to you. I’m sorry that you feel abandoned in some way. It’s not fun. I’ve been there, and it feels pretty cold and disappointing to get this attention and then have it taken away. All I can tell you is that this guy’s feelings or interest never changed, because it never existed in the first place. He likely had a few women he was communicating with and, yes, I’m sure one or two are giving him what he wants.

There are guys on these sites who will engage women strictly for the stroke material. They’ll feign all kinds of interest and say all sorts of disingenuous things. It’s kind of crushing when you learn the things they said weren’t real. Almost as crushing as believing that you had forged some semblance of a connection with someone only to find out it never truly existed. This is something that, admittedly, I have a hard time with.

I’ve met guys online that I really enjoyed chatting with and would absolutely have stayed friends with them if things didn’t take us to a romantic or physical place. Being someone who places a high importance on a certain level of social aptitude combined with being a person who works in a very non-traditional and somewhat self-isolating/intimidating niche, I do what I can to maintain some form of a relationship with anybody who “gets me.” I’ve spoken of my psychologist Ex. We still talk and occasionally hang out to this day. I enjoy having him in my life because he’s someone I can bounce ideas off of and discuss things that, for the most part, my friends either don’t really understand or care about. Someone who truly gets me or who is as fascinated by a certain topic as I am is a rare thing, and I tend to hold on to those connections.

You’re right that this guy never wanted anything real. A guy can be bored or looking for spank material and decide to engage someone he saw on a dating site. Some guys are just like that. That’s why, unless you’re comfortable making yourself that vulnerable, you need to stay away from having conversations that cross over into “too intimate” territory. You also can’t complain if a guy pesters you for sexy pictures if you sit there and involve yourself or indulge their attempt at naughty banter. That’s not to be confused with “flirty” banter. It’s not flirty. It’s a blatant attempt to get some form of sexual gratification. No man who is genuinely interested in you will go for that without meeting you.  In general, you should avoid any kind of sex/oooh this is what I want to do to you talk with someone you haven’t met for one reason. Because if you do meet and the chemistry isn’t there, you’ll feel really stupid. I did this once. Once was enough.

I was damn skippy sure the physical chemistry was a given. But it wasn’t.  I did not handle that situation well. The next day he apologized for making the situation worse than it had to be and admitted to contributing to it. He said I should learn to take rejection better. I clarified to him that the rejection wasn’t what made me angry. I’m a 40something year old, size 10 woman in Manhattan. I can handle rejection. It’s not like I can’t wrap my brain around it. The rejection stung, of course, especially since I wasn’t allowed the courtesy to process that privately. He decided to tell me while we were on the date. The angry reaction came from feeling as though I had been held hostage for 2 hours while he formulated an escape plan, a plan that involved showering me with compliments and then telling me I was too [insert positive attribute] to date. I felt that was insulting to my intelligence. The next day he shared that he took so long to tell me because he was hoping the attraction would materialize but it never did. Could be true. Probably wasn’t. Doesn’t much matter at this point. It was uncomfortable for both of us and was a good lesson learned: keep the expectations to a minimum. The higher the expectations, the more likely it is that you will be disappointed.

My purpose in telling you this, Alexis, is that you need to do what you can to avoid these kind of disappointment and embarrassment. Starting with disengaging from any conversation with someone you’ve met that takes on a sexual tone.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Low Hanging Fruit, Naughty, Online Dating, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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