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Is It Wrong for a Man To Challenge a Woman?

May 8, 2012 by 33 Comments

 

Interesting article over at The Frisky about “negging.”

His teeny little profile picture was cute. He was the right age range and city. But when I opened the online dating message from this random dude, this is what he said:

Isn’t feminism a little obsolete? Men and women are equal nowadays. In fact, the balance is tipped in your favor.

Of all the things for a man to comment upon in my profile, he chose to kinda-insulted me by calling my belief system “obsolete”? I rolled my eyes. I hit delete. Another one bites the dust.

I’d been “negged.”

 

I have a different take on this. I actually think the guy was trying to make conversation by challenging her about something she mentions in her profile. The definition of “negging”, according to the Urban Dictionary, is:

Low-grade insults meant to undermine the self-confidence of a woman so she might be more vulnerable to your advances.

Therefore, to me, this was not a case of negging. This was a case of a woman being askedabout something she included in her profile. The guy may have intentionally been trying to insult her. Or he was trying to engage her in a spirited back and forth. But I don’t think he was “negging” her. I think this has now become a go to explanation for why  a man might not immediately jump to effusive ass kissery when trying to woo a woman.

We see this all the time. We read statements in someone profile that pretty much BEG for a response. They are either blatantly inflammatory statements or they involve hot button issues like religion, sexuality or politics. My personal feeling is that people include these bytes because they want to be noticed or acknowledged for those particular thoughts or opinions.  What they don’t want to do is have to defend their stance. Which, to me, comes off as inauthentic.

If I mentioned in my profile that I believed in heaven, and someone emailed me and asked me (without being rude) why or suggested they didn’t believe the same, I’d reply. If it’s important enough for the person to include certain beliefs or ideologies in their profile, they should be prepared to defend them. Unless, of course, the person identifying themselves in a way that they know is provocative is doing so just to get attention. If they’re going to write anybody off who tries to debate their publicly stated opinions, then maybe they should take such points out of their profile. You won’t get as much attention, you say? Oh, alright. Someone can challenge a point and still respect whomever they are engaging. It isn’t always an attempt to be combative or insulting or degrading.

When looking through profiles, I tend to avoid the vocal self-identifiers. If a man said he was a Men’s Rights Activist, or that he didn’t want to hear from anybody that wasn’t Democrat or Republican, or brings up Occupy Wall Street, or talks about their spanking fetish, I’m clicking the back browser. I have no  desire to date a rabble rouser. They’re attention seekers. They want you to argue with them. They want you to ask them about their problems, fetishes and passions. They also want you to give them a reason to disqualify you because they don’t really want a relationship. They just think they do. They’re spinning their wheels on those sites trying to see how much attention they can get or so they can have all their negative opinions about women confirmed.

Now, of course, “negging” is a real technique. Like the author, I believe it’s a horrible way to try and get a woman’s attention and I think it works on a specific type of woman. I just don’t agree that this was an example of “negging.” I think the author brought something up in her profile with the intention of getting attention from it. She just didn’t get the attention she wanted. What if he had replied and mentioned spanking or something sexual?  How much should we bet that he’d still be labeled a wanker?

Look, there are many words that are immediate boner killers for men. “Feminist” is one of them. It’s not that they don’t respect a woman who identifies as a feminist. Nor does it mean they don’t believe in the fundamental principles that are the cornerstones of feminism. Where most men become super-cautious is when a woman announces – like in a dating profile – that she identifies as a feminist. To many men, dating such a woman will involve a series of ongoing arguments and ‘intellectual discussions.” They envision a frequent battle of wills. That’s unfortunate and inaccurate, of course. But that’s the typical internal reaction that a man has. A woman is better off showing how she’s a feminist than just stating she’s a feminist. It’s like when people talk about being into polyamorous relationships. They’ll probably have more luck simply stating that they’ve engaged in relationships where they had two partners that shared them rather than saying, “I’m a poly!” Show. Don’t tell. Showing makes certain things sound less intimidating, confusing or scary.

Personally, I think a lot of women like to identify as feminist because it’s a good defense. Use sex for attention? Oh, you’re a feminist, so that’s okay. Perpetually single? Oh, you’re a feminist, so that’s okay.

Let’s not get carried away and start assuming that any man who doesn’t automatically agree with us or who challenges us is somehow being disrespectful. This is one of those areas where I really feel like certain self-identifying feminists are being inconsistent. If you want to be respected and admired for your mind, then what is wrong with a man who tries to engage you in a debate?

Isn’t that what we want?

 

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Filed Under: Article Review 1, Article Roundup, Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Blogging, Dating & Communicating, Dating Skills, Game, Online Dating Tagged With: , , ,

Is Slutty Really Such a Bad Thing?

April 14, 2012 by 28 Comments

Name: Linda
Age: 39
Question: My last relationship was very sexually intense. My Ex and I were very sexually compatible and had similar interests. I’ve been dating someone new for about 6 weeks. He’s more reserved than my Ex. The sex is great but I want to incorporate some of my fantasies into it. When is the right time to ask him for certain things i.e. facials, porn, etc? I feel shy and embarrassed asking him for what I like. I don’t want him to think I’m slutty.
Age: 39
State: NYC

 

Oh, sweetie. It’s never too soon to ask for a facial. :)

I think there’s a difference, at least in a man’s mind, between a “slut” and a woman who is “slutty.” My belief is that most men like “slutty” women. And yes, they’ll even date them seriously despite what you’ll hear out there from your girlfriends and insecure men.

You never want to deny yourself pleasure in this area for the sake of not looking “easy.” The trick is to make the guy think he’s the one who inspired this sudden, slutty turn. You don’t want to say something like how you love it when men do XYZ. The reasons should be obvious. While he might enjoy that one particular act in the moment, at some point he’ll imagine some other dude doing that. That kind of takes the fun out of it.  The guy knows he’s probably not the first guy to do these things to you. He just doesn’t want to know it. Catch my drift?

As far as the timing, you obviously shouldn’t be pulling out the bag of tricks after one or two dates. Get to know each other first. Find your sexual groove. That in and of itself can be fun. A lot of people have secret fetishes and fantasies that they’ve never shared because they’ve never felt comfortable. So start there. Ask him about his fantasies. Open up the dialogue that way. Then share yours. Just leave any mentions of past lovers out of it. Tell him that when you fantasize about such and such, he’s the man in the fantasy. Best time to do this is when you’re in bed. Obviously. Maybe you’re revving up for a session and you just come out and ask him what he likes.Ask him if he’s every been with two women. That usually kick starts the conversation. Once you get them going down that path it’s pretty easy to tell him you want a facial. A facial seems tame in comparison.

Ooh. I know. Here’s something fun. On your next date, excuse yourself and go to the ladies room. From there text him how you have been thinking all night of him doing XYZ., so can we pay the tab when you get back and get out of  here? There are all kinds of ways to make this fun and open his eyes to what you like. Send him erotic photos. Tell him you had a dream or fantasized about him that night or morning. Write out the fantasy and email it to him.

As long as you and this guy have established a good sexual rapport and the basic foundation is there – attraction, compatibility, mutual respect, arousal – you should be fine. But watch for any comments he might make that sound like judgments. As I’ve said before, any time I saw a man’s OK Cupid profile and he states that he doesn’t or won’t have sex on the first date, I roll my eyes and clicked the back browser. Same if he said “yes” to the question of whether or not there is such a thing to having too many sexual partners. He’s either lying or he’s insecure. If you are going to answer those questions, and I don’t think you should, be honest. Those men need to realize the type of women they are scoring points with – the ones who need to feel “special” or who denies that they’re “that kind of girl.” Let me tell you something…most of those women? They’ve taken a number of blasts to the face. I can assure you of that. So you ultimately end up with a woman who is either completely disinterested in sex, makes you work for it  or who denies that she likes it.

For the guys who say they insist upon only seriously dating women with a low partner count, I’ll say this. You’re either  woefully sexually inexperienced yourself or just plain bad in bed.  Same goes for the ladies. If you shun a guy for his level of sexual experience, it’s not because you think he’s a “manwhore.” It’s because you fear you won’t measure up or don’t like sex and don’t want to be expected to have it very often.

There. I said it.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Communicating, Kinky, Naughty, Oral Sex, Servicey!, Sex, sexuality Tagged With: , , ,

Are You Really Prepared for a Relationship?

February 13, 2012 by 59 Comments

Last week we were talking about a 36 year old man who had never had a relationship that lasted more than 6 months. A few women said that that was a major red flag. Which is understandable But let’s do a little critical thinking. What if he had had a relationship that lasted 3 years, but the last 2 were tumultuous? What if he cheated? What if they stopped having sex a year in? What if that relationship, overall, was unhealthy? Do those 3 years still count as a plus for him?

It’s funny thing things we choose to take at face value because they align with our inner narrative.

“Well, if they’re divorced, at least that means they can commit.”

And my personal favorite…

“Why would you ask a SINGLE WOMAN for advice?”

While reading Private Man’s latest post, I came across an interesting comment.

If you want to seek advice from a woman, talk to a happily married woman. There’s a huge difference in how they respond, versus the single bitter woman. – Anonymous

Another commenter responded with:

“If you want to seek advice from a woman, talk to a happily married woman who has been married for many years. There’s a huge difference in how they respond, versus the single bitter woman.” There. Fixed that for you. A woman who can remain happy in her marriage once the big day is over and reality has set in probably is a valuable resource. Women place way to much emphasis on marriage and being married. The credit they give women just for being married is undue. - Sheldon

Allow me to now amend Sheldon’s statement:

The credit they give women just for being in a relationship or married is undue.

There. Fixed that for ya, Shel.

It’s true. Women, for the most part, place a heavy emphasis solely on the fact that a man can commit or that a woman can get a man to commit. The quality of those relationships doesn’t really matter. As long as they’ve “done it” then those people hold a higher place on the relationship food chain and have more credibility. Watch how women react to the men in the comments or in posts that appear to be “serial daters” or “not looking for commitment.” Some women love to throw that in their faces in an attempt discredit them. (Fun fact: Upon doing a little research, those guys come from families where their parents are still together. Something else people dismiss that they shouldn’t.)

There are other attributes that could imply that someone has the ability to both commit and develop a healthy relationship that have nothing to do with relationship history. Starting with:

1. Owning a Pet- Taking care of an animal is a big commitment. Not only that but it takes nurturing and patience. I know people who plan dates around being able to get home and walk their dog. They aren’t going to let their pet hold it in until 10 or 11pm when they get home. You also don’t get a dog or cat, take them home and they magically behave. There’s training involved. Which takes patience and a time investment.

2. Owning a Home - It’s rare that someone invests 25K or so in a home and then bail a year or two later. They worked hard to save up some or all of that money. By buying a home, they are agreeing to take on all the responsibilities involved. They don’t have the luxury of ringing up the super to unclog their drain.

3. Holding long time friendships/Being at a job for several years – Friendships take work. It’s easy to let them slip to the wayside. They take maintenance. Friendships, like romantic relationships, have peaks and valleys. Friends don’t take advantage of each other (often). Friends apologize even if they know they’re wrong. Friends are supportive. It’s almost impossible to avoid conflict or disagreements in a years/decades long friendship or job position. Learning how to navigate these arguments effectively takes skill.

All of these things require a willingness to commit, effective communication, conflict management and compromise.

Other things to consider when trying to determine someone’s ability to commit or ability to have  a relationship:

1. Does this person support themselves (for the most part?) - Someone who is responsible for paying their own bills/debt and other day to day needs usually does so through hard work and discipline.  Getting help from parents every now and then is one thing. Being mostly supported by your parents is another. Some who is financially aided by parents typically miss out on some major life skills. Namely financial management and general responsibility.

2. Are they surrounded by sycophants? – When you’re always being told what you want to hear, you never learn how to disagree. Nor do you learn how to deal with criticism.

3. Are they emotionally mature? – A lot of people have an overly idealized or romanticized view of relationships. When reality doesn’t match up to their fantasy, they’re more likely to quit the relationship.  This is one of if not the biggest hurdle that many single women encounter. Especially women who have been single for a very long time. They’ve been alone for so long and are likely surrounded by women like them that their ideas about relationships never mature. They’re expectations and perspectives are almost childlike and definitely one-sided. They are baffled by the simplest of things.

There are a lot of people out there who commit pretty effortlessly. I’ve spoken about the guy I know who, by age 30, has already lived with 3 different women. Take that at face value and he might have real relationship potential. Dig a little deeper and you learn that he cheated on two of them. Multiple times. For years.

Still want him to be your boyfriend?

One’s experience with commitment has little to do with one’s understanding of commitment. And like anything, a true understanding of something involves knowledge of all aspects of the experience. Not just the act itself.

 

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Filed Under: Commitment, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating Over 40, Latests Posts, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , ,

How To Succeed In Online Dating Without Really Trying

February 8, 2012 by 33 Comments

I’m sure many of you have read the latest study about online dating.

I’m frequently asked to write people’s online dating profiles for them. I always tell them that I won’t do that. Not because I can’t or don’t want to but because I truly believe that what someone says in that About Me space has little to nothing to do why someone does or not respond to them. Here’s my personal opinion: you could write out the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner in that space, and as long as you’ve got a few really good photos, you’re set. The text in the body of the profile means very little. At least to the most men. Women, on the other hand, need to have a bit more control over the process. They want to be sure the date will be worth their time.  Oddly enough, the man could show all the signs of being a self-important poser and she’ll still go out with him as long as she thinks he’s attractive.  Even more so if she thinks she’s out of his league. So much for rules.

Men? They just want to know the woman won’t be a pain in the ass. But even if she does seem high maintenance or a little wacky, if she’s attractive, he’ll meet her. Especially if one who like sot bat out of his league.

From the article

One of the weaknesses of online dating is an over reliance on “profiles,” the researchers say. Although most dating websites feature photos and detailed, searchable profiles covering everything from personality traits to likes and dislikes, this information isn’t necessarily useful in identifying a partner, Finkel and his coauthors write.

That’s partly because daters don’t always know what they want in a mate — even though they generally think they do. Studies suggest that people often lack insight into what attracts them to others (and why), and therefore the characteristics they seek out in an online profile may be very different from those that will create a connection in person, the review notes.

I tend to think we place little emphasis on the profile text. If we find someone attractive, we will meet them, so long as their ad doesn’t contain any major red flags. Both men and women will meet someone “out of curiosity.” As long as you don’t sound like a loon and use proper grammar and don’t set off any red alerts, you’re fine. But those red alerts are common, and we usually don’t even know that they are there.  For example, I met with a woman who said she kept meeting men who never offered to pay the bill for their dates. When I looked at her profile, she made it a point to state that she was financially secure and independent and owned her own apartment. Her intention was to convey that she wasn’t looking for a man to support her. Unfortunately, what many men inferred was that she didn’t need nor want a man to pay her way.  These are the type of things we say that end up attracting the wrong people and turning the right ones away.

The most common complaint I hear in my profile review sessions is that people send out a ton of emails and get few responses. I can say, across the board, that EVERY client I’ve had has this issue. And these are attractive people with solid profiles and photos. Like the article says, online dating creates a “shopping mentality.”

The shopping mindset may be efficient online, but when carried into face-to-face interactions it can make daters overly critical and discourage “fluid, spontaneous interaction” in what is already a charged and potentially awkward situation, Reis and his coauthors write.

Ever heard the saying “The only way to win is not to play?” Apply that to online dating. Don’t get caught up in how many people respond. Don’t comb through profiles looking for someone that presents themselves, on paper, as ideal. Don’t engage in the days long exchanges. Don’t take it personally when someone flakes. That’s the part of online dating that is “a game.” Understand, going in, that you’re going to face a ton of rejection. That is the only way to survive and thrive in that medium.

Your dating profile has little to do with why you don’t have a relationship. It possibly could be why you don’t have as many dates as you would like. But it’s not the cause for the fact that nothing seems to flourish or last. That has to do with your social and dating/relationship skills. Don’t buy in to this idea that the problem is your profile. It’s not. Nor is online dating to blame because you keep meeting “dinner whores” or “players” or “weirdos.” I can assure you that the signs were there, right in their profile. You just ignored them.

Dating success hinges on being able to read certain signals and cues. Getting a bunch of dates is not “dating success” unless that is your goal. If your goal is to have a relationship – casual or otherwise – then you need to become as socially adept as possible. Don’t kid yourself or be bamboozled in to believing that somebody can write your profile and emails for you and everything will improve. That’s a lie. If anything, that very thing is going to make your dating life harder, not easier. Know why? Because that would be like a parent doing their child’s homework for them. The kid might get an A, but they won’t retain or learn anything that they can apply or implement in future similar situations. Being able to effectively communicate is a cornerstone to having a healthy relationship, be that a casual one or a committed/long term one. Someone needs to not only be able to identify their needs and limitations, but also communicate them in a way that is productive. That requires hands on experience. This sort of thing is a learning process. You don’t just have an epiphany one day. You acquire these skills by trial and error. Those are the lessons that stay with you. Those are the ones that propel you forward.

The profile is merely the lowest hurdle. The bigger ones involve your communication skills, your social aptitude, your attitude and your ability to pick up on signals. Succeeding in those areas requires experience.

You can be told what to do and how to do it and what to say. You could even say all the right things and look the part. But if you don’t understand the fundamental reasons why certain things happen or understand and accept appropriate courses of action, then you’re going to struggle.

 

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Filed Under: Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating Advice, First Impressions, Latests Posts, OKCupid, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , ,

Look for My Texts, But Not My Call

February 1, 2012 by 47 Comments

An interesting post from Private Man

I’ve been corresponding with a reader who is doing some good work on improving his dating skills. He was castigating himself for talking too much and revealing too much when on the phone with his current or potential dates. To help him limit his phone time, he now sets a timer (his workout timer) to remind him to not get carried away with the phone gabbing. That’s a great idea.

 

I have a better idea. Skip the phone call all together. Here’s why:

 

1. It’s a litmus test - This is a step that women use to see how “serious” or “interested” you are. A man or woman is not obligated to prove themselves to someone they haven’t even met yet.People who get stuck on issues like this should be avoided. They’re letting you know how limited their dating experience is. And it is limited for a reason. I’m telling you. Avoid these people who express doubt or mistrust or question the simple things. If someone can’t just meet up with you for an hour without a phone call or canceling or rescheduling last minute, there are issues going on there that will cause that relationship to be a struggle. That includes requiring the other person to fulfill some gender-specific role in the date. Like choosing  a place, paying, asking the person out, sending a thank you email, etc. Someone who had these ideas in their head of what the man is supposed to do and what the woman is supposed to do is going to be way more trouble than they are worth. If they show that they get stuck on issues like this, disengage. Or at the very least greatly lower your expectations and how much effort you invest.

2. It’s an excuse not to meet you - The phone step is just another barrier put in place to keep you and the other person at a distance. That person is looking for a reason to disqualify you. The longer somebody puts off actually getting together, the less interested they are or become. I’ve said this before, the classic sign of a time waster is the person who takes forever to finally meet. They should get a week. That’s it. If there’s no meet up within a week, and they haven’t shared  any major issues explaining why (work doesn’t count) then move along. I’m telling you…barring extenuating circumstances like illness or travel…somebody truly interested in dating someone is going to get you offline and in person as soon as possible. Yes, I know. “But the guys who just want to have sex with me and nothing more do this too.” Oh noes. I guess you’ll just have to either a) not sleep with them or b) sleep with them and enjoy yourself without getting invested in a guy you never met because, like,  that’s irrational.

3. It’s a no win situation - Most men are just not good on the phone. Unfortunately, many women use this 15 minute experiment to determine a man’s overall personality. Joke’s on them, though, because some of the most engaging and interesting men as well as those with the most dating experience know to be cautious for fear of offending the woman.

4. It builds a false sense of security and familiarity – As we saw in a recent post where the man and woman spoke for almost 90 minutes, the woman assumed she had license to change plans over and over and choose a pricey restaurant for their date. While there were likely already present issues that caused her to be entitled, a 90 minute phone call didn’t help. Most men don’t bond over conversation the way many women do. Most men bond over shared experiences, not verbal engagements. Another problem? Women get sucked in to a guy’s ability to be charming and engaging. Before they’ve even met, she’s wooed by his words, not his actions. While I do lend some credence to the non-verbal cues like tone, rate of speech, pitch, etc all those things mean little to nothing because the subject is basically being watched and analyzed and knows it. There also is no pre-established baseline to use for comparison.

I say avoid the phone step at all costs.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Latests Posts, Men & Communication, Online Dating, Texting Tagged With: , , , , , ,

When Is The Right Time to Set Boundaries With Men?

January 26, 2012 by 8 Comments

Name: Mimi
State: NJ
Age: 35
Comment: I met this guy during the holidays. We’ve been on 1 date and we’re gearing up for the second. I like him. He’s attractive & I’m attracted to him. We made loose weekend plans for a second date but he never followed up. He called to apologize saying he had a personal matter early in the week and now we have plans for the weekend again. Was I stood up?

I’m definitely going to say something about it the next time I see him. I know to tread lightly but wanted an idea of how to approach it.

I’m not pissed or hurt because practically I can’t think of one man in my past that would’ve called to apologize. I don’t think it’s major but I want to make it clear it can’t happen again.

I just read a post about am I in a relationship. You’re saying waiting 4 mos to get down is too long?  How long are supposed to wait? Admittedly I have a very checkered pass when it comes to this but I’m determined to get it right. The next guy, i want him to be definitive marriage material if he’s not my husband. I say marriage material because the reality is I can’t wait that long.  The fella I’m seeing now, I’m good to go but I think we have to put in what 6 dates? What’s a good number?

 

Was I stood up?

Since the plans were, as you put it, loose then No you were not stood up. Had you two made clear plans and scheduled a time and day and he just never followed up then that would be considered being stood up.

I’m definitely going to say something about it the next time I see him. I know to tread lightly but wanted an idea of how to approach it.

The time to say something has passed. Not that I think you should even say anything. You didn’t have concrete plans and he did follow up with you and apologize even though you and he only had one date. You’re trying to set boundaries, which I understand. Boundaries are necessary. But you have to pick your battles. Now is not the time to be setting down ground rules. You’ve had one date.  Should he make tentative plans again, ask him if you and he can firm things up because you have some other things going on that week and you’d prefer to know so you can plan accordingly. That’s it. If he says he needs to get back to you about it, just respond and say , “Okay. Try to let me know by X day. If I don’t hear from you I’ll assume we aren’t meeting up.” Then, if he doesn’t follow up, write him off and be on your merry way. You are not going to change him. It’s not your job to look out for all womankind by setting him straight.

People who feel compelled to draw some imaginary line in the sand and warn others not to cross it set off warning bells amongst most people. They’re alerting people to the fact that they have, in their mind, been screwed over before and won’t stand for it. Nobody wants to be faced with that kind of proposition. Especially after one date.

I don’t think it’s major but I want to make it clear it can’t happen again.

You’re trying to assert yourself here but you’re not coming off strong or independent. You’re coming off like a hard ass. Not feminine. Not attractive.  It’s an aggressive trait, usually reserved for people with chips on their shoulders. I think this is another area where women erroneously try to emulate “male” behavior, thinking the man will respect them more for acting in this sort of domineering manner.  But they don’t. The only people who act this way are a) their parents or b) douchey guys who like to pick fights in bars. No man with a backbone enjoys or appreciates a woman who tries to bait him in to a pissing match. That’s what you would be doing by speaking up over something like this this early on.

It’s good to want to assert yourself. But you have to learn to read the room first. One date is not enough time to gauge how this man will react or respond. As adults, we know that making confirmed plans with someone and not contacting them to cancel is wrong. We know that. We don’t need some random person we shared a couple of cocktails with to give us a lesson in manners. If someone treats you that way, then you just cease contact and move along. Speaking up to someone who has no vested interest in your feelings is pointless. It will go in one ear and out the other. If they ditched you so rudely, they don’t care about your feelings.

You’re saying waiting 4 mos to get down is too long?  How long are supposed to wait? Admittedly I have a very checkered pass when it comes to this but I’m determined to get it right.

Let me tell you something that will blow your mind. How long you did or did not wait is not why the relationship didn’t work out. Everybody’s “right” time is different.

The fella I’m seeing now, I’m good to go but I think we have to put in what 6 dates? What’s a good number?

There is no “good” number. You don’t score more points by waiting just so you can say you waited. PS? Guys know when we’re doing this. If there’s one thing that will get you pumped and dumped faster it’s this.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Closure, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Latests Posts, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, Men & Communication, Men & Conflict, Sex, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , ,

Should Women Play Harder To Get When Dating Online?

January 11, 2012 by 11 Comments

So here was an interesting scenario discussed at our he said/she said event.

A woman was talking about her online dating experience on Chemistry.com. She said that she sent out a number of emails and got no responses. But then, in an attempt to switch things up, she started including her phone number in the initial message along with a suggestion that she and he meet for a drink. Using that approach she got a couple of responses versus getting zero responses before.

My immediate thought was that, by sending her number and suggesting a drink in the initial email, she was sending the wrong signal. As I’ve said before, I’m a big believer of getting offline as quickly as possible. But I know when I’ve received emails like that I’ve been hesitant. To me, it felt too eager.

One of the men who attended last night piped up and told the woman that this approach “seemed a little desperate.” To which I agreed. I said that I felt that the guys might have assumed that she was going to be an easy target and just looking to get laid. The woman insisted that that wasn’t the case.

In the cab ride home, my friend and I (male) discussed this further. He said that he didn’t necessarily think that the men assumed she was “easy” sexually. Just easier, if that makes sense. Less effort, less work. Whether that was a good thing or not is unknown.

So in order to keep up with the times I’d like to get feedback from other online daters, both male and female, and ask them if they feel this is a wise approach and why or why not. Does it send the wrong signal and potentially put the woman in a vulnerable position?

Let me also say that I’m hoping to hear from men and women who date a lot or who don’t necessarily struggle with getting dates online as well as those who do. It’s implied that a man who has a hard time getting dates online is going to find this approach appealing.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Profile Review, Latests Posts, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , ,

Do You Pass His/Her Sh*t Test?

November 23, 2011 by 16 Comments

Good evening. I have a question for you and your community of women.

Are there a substantial number of women who simply won’t engage men in casual conversation on places like the subway, bus or street even though they may actually like their vibe?

I was on a NYC bus today and it really felt like this woman sat next to me because she was kind of feeling me a bit. There a good number of other seats available. We briefly checked each other out before we got on. But when I chatted her up, the conversation didn’t really flow. I was quickly the one asking all the questions so I backed off because I wasn’t feeling any reciprocal interest.

This situation reminded me of this book I read recently called The Power Of Eye Contact by Michael Ellsberg. He quotes Lauren Frances a dating coach. She says this, “Most women date like what I call ‘Sleeping Beauties in a Coma.’ It’s totally bred into us…all Sleeping Beauty had to do was spin flax and take long naps to find her dream man…a lot of women who play ‘hard to get’ go home alone.”

There could have been a number of really good reasons this woman didn’t respond to me but I’m curious to know from the other gender directly if there are a good number of women playing “hard to get” as a strategy of some sort.

Furthermore, I’d like to know, if after I throw out a few conversational openers to woman I meet randomly, should I just back off and take it a sign of disinterest? Or power on a bit, as charmingly as possible, so one may get through, what some guy dating coaches would call a shit test.
(http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/shit-test/) I want to be respectful but I don’t want to be weak either.

There’s also a great section in chapter three of Ellsberg’s book about how women are afraid to engage men in public situations (supermarket, subway, etc) because if they open up a conversation and he’s uncool or dorky they don’t know how to take care of themselves and quickly draw boundaries and exit the conversation.

Sincerely,
Walker, 36, NYC

 

I was quickly the one asking all the questions so I backed off because I wasn’t feeling any reciprocal interest.

Okay. Define “quickly.” That could have been the main problem. You could have come across too eager.

Walker, I know you. I’ve met you a few times. So I’ll say this: you come off kind of flakey and over eager, which I think many women read as weak to some degree. I can remember being at a gathering with you and standing by as you tried to chat up a woman you had met. That woman pretty much dumped on you. She was like a girl in high school, complete with being flanked by her court of sycophants, and was performing for her friends. She continuously talked down to you. You just stood there and took it and you tried to win her approval. Approval you were never going to get. When a a person smells blood in the water or senses their “target” is “in distress” they’re going to attack. We see it here in the comments all the time. The minute a man or woman expresses a genuine confusion or vulnerability and is perceived as weak, the commenters with axes to grind swoop in.  Typical bully crap. There are plenty of men and women out there looking to use others as punching bags because they’ve so badly beaten and bruised themselves.

It’s nice to get attention from men. But that attention can seem overwhelming if it is given too quickly or in an inordinate amount. “Quickly” asking questions could make you appear over eager. That would explain why the woman pulled back. She may have seen you had had an initial interest. But the minute you started firing questions at her, her natural instincts kicked in and she recoiled and shut down. Yes, it was the bus. Yes, you were in public. I’m sure those two things did accentuate the possible danger factor involved. I agree with the Ellsberg that the public factor of the encounter probably did make her feel more uncomfortable. She had no idea if you were going to ask her out and she was going to have to say no and risk public ridicule.

Furthermore, I’d like to know, if after I throw out a few conversational openers to woman I meet randomly, should I just back off and take it a sign of disinterest?

If she doesn’t return the interest in a comparable way, like asking questions of her own or trying to prolong the conversation, then yes. You should back off. Not just because she might feel threatened or might not be interested. In this day and age, there’s just no time for the whole “playing hard to get” thing. Anybody who functions under the belief that they can make someone “work for it” is shooting themselves in the foot. There’s just no time for that anymore. My friend K. and I were walking home from an event one night a few weeks ago. He was supposed to have a date with a woman he met on OKCupid. She had said that he should text her when he was done with his other appointment. He sent her a text about a half hour before we left. 45 minutes later he hadn’t heard from her. What did he do? He went on to OKCupid, popped open the OKC app, logged in to the Locals section and sent out a broadcast saying he was in Midtown and wanted to know if someone wanted to meet up. In ten minutes he had two responses. In twenty minutes he had a date.

It’s that easy. Think about that the next time you cancel a date with a woman or man last minute. You are replaceable.

Or power on a bit, as charmingly as possible, so one may get through, what some guy dating coaches would call a shit test.(http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/shit-test/) I want to be respectful but I don’t want to be weak either.

Why bother with all that? Why would anybody tolerate or engage someone “testing” them? There’s game…and there’s a game. That’s a game. As I said above, any man or woman who thinks they’re so God damn unique or special that they can put up a flaming hoop and find some sucker to jump through deserves to be alone. Someone who uses sarcasm or some other kind of closed non-verbal or verbal behavior to “test” someone has issues. Period. You want to schlep their baggage for the duration of that relationship? Go right ahead. My friend J. showed me the profile of a guy that emailed her on Match. There was a line in the profile that mentioned a sport that he liked. It was an obscure sport. He said, in his profile, that if the woman reading didn’t know what it was she should Google it. Then they’d have something to talk about. Um…next? All something like that reveals is that you have a ridiculously high opinion of yourself. That’s not someone with whom you want to be involved.

Walker, if you’re going to approach women in public (as in the bus, train, supermarket, bar) situations, then do so cautiously. Those types of environments naturally encourages someone to have a suspicious or defensive nature. Smile, make eye contact, keep conversation light and impersonal. Wait to see how they initially respond before escalating. If they don’t, move on. If they’re attracted to you in those first moments, then they will slowly let their guard down. People chat each other up all the time on subway platforms and on trains. If they shut down, it’s either because they aren’t attracted or sense some kind of “danger.” If you come on too strong or too eager or too curious, you will be perceived as some kind of threat. Don’t get caught up in trying to get a certain reaction or response. If you become that consumed with what they think of you, you’ve lost the battle. You have to learn to shrug it off, not take it personally and move on.

That is THE biggest challenge for single people. You can’t take everything so personally or assume it’s about you.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Dating, Dating & Communicating, First Date Jitters, First Impressions, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Meeting Men, Meeting Women

What Single Women Are Really Up Against Today

October 30, 2011 by 106 Comments

Name: Lisa
State: TX
Age: 37
Comment: Hi Moxie & friends,
I think I need some perspective here.

Situation:
Meet guy online, chat a few times.
Meet guy in person, have hours of delicious fun sex.
Both consistently make plans with each other for sex over summer.
Both do not ‘chase’ the other. This is clear.
He spend hours of time with me (mostly talking) before sex.
Agreement: I continue to date other men, but will not have sex with others before telling guy. Guy will continue his dating pursuits with the same condition.
So far as I know, we’ve held to our agreement.
This is 5 months going now.
Lately, we see each other like every other Friday.
We do not go on dates.
He has not been to my house or met my friends.
We do not chat on the phone in-between.
We text & chat on yahoo some.
He gives me small sweet gifts and holds my hand when we’re together.
He regularly asks if I’ve been on a date.
He treats me more passionately in bed than anyone I have ever been with (eye contact, holding hands, millions of kisses, completely open and free, concerned with my climax).
He has trusted me with private information about his business.
He has asked about my future, my past love life, and even my thoughts on babies.
I’ve never been married, nor do I have kids.
He is 33, European born/raised, & has been in the US for over 10 yrs now.
He works 7 days a week with long late hours & is often exhausted.
He recently took his profile down from OK cupid (where we met).
He doesn’t give me a hard time about anything.
Lately, I feel I have been doing all the initiating of plans/contact.
I recently told him I didn’t like the situation anymore because of his unavailability.
He admitted he was wrong (didn’t call when he said he would-was sick) and apologized/explained and made plans with me for the next weekend.
I feel I may be dealing with the huge/fragile ego.
I fear I may also have a huge/fragile ego.

Dear Mr. 5 months of ‘casual sex’,

When I met you I truly did not expect to come home with you and have sex for hours and hours. But the fact is we did do that and it was wonderful. I enjoyed our time together all summer.

I have never had a sex-only relationship with someone. So this is strange and new to me. When I have this much sexual connection with someone, it is natural to grow to care for them as I have for you. You are sweet and I think you try to be good to me and I feel like we connect really well in many ways, yet there are some things about this situation that feel bad to me.

It is like I said before, you do not show that you really have much time for a woman in your life, even casually. It is for this reason alone that I have made attempts to back away. It is hard to do because I like you and you seem to want to keep it going. I must admit it is a little confusing. I do not ever want to play games or manipulate a situation. I just want to be honest and happy. I have simply wanted to spend time with you because it feels good when we are together.

When I sent that text a couple weeks ago saying that I don’t like this situation anymore, you know it was because I hadn’t heard from you. But it is even more than that. I know that if you really liked me and wanted to see me more, then you would make the effort… and maybe even take me on a date. But from what I can see, this is still all just for a little sex. I am not faulting you for this… it is how we started! But even then, once every 2 or 3 weeks is not enough for me. I mean, is it really worth it?

There are men who want to take me on dates and spend time with me each week. So I ask myself then, why are you focused on [Mr. 5 months of 'casual sex']? It is because I have connected with you. I am human and I feel this is natural. I do not think casual sex over this long period of time is for me because I am a passionate and warmhearted person. So if I am seeing things clearly, what seems best for me to do is end things now.
Thanks for the good times and take care.
—–

So… I do obviously want to see him more often, have the mind-blowing sex, and continue to experience the connection we do have. But I also want to take it slow. I don’t necessarily see him as ‘the one’, nor do I want to rush into a major commitment. I just want to see where it could go. But I can’t and will not try to MAKE that happen. Anyway, it is not currently happening so I just feel like it is best for me to be open with him in this letter and cut it off for my own sanity. It makes us crazy when they do not pursue. Thoughts?

 

Okay. I think you’re trying to pigeon hole this guy in to a negative category so you can justify your frustration. What you should be doing, instead of trying to change or alter what you have going on, is accept it as what it is.

We like to label these men the ones who fear commitment or refuse to grow up. In reality, they are neither. They’ve just decided that they’d either rather date someone casually, even for an extended period of time, in an open ended and undefined fashion. Or they’re refusing to jump through hoops and play guessing games and “work for it.”

Many articles and stories (mostly if not exclusively written by women) have spoken about the decline in marriages, citing the alleged fact that – due to the economy and the fact that there are more women graduating college and in the workforce than men – that there are now fewer men who are “marriage material.” What these pieces basically do is imply that, since fewer men are high earners or hold degrees, most women are deciding that there are fewer men out there that will make suitable partners and choosing not to settle down or marry.

Rarely do these same authors ever challenge how women determines if a man is “marriage material”  and if it’s justified or accurate. They don’t question the hypocrisy surrounding this supposed reason for why fewer women are marrying. Especially given the fact that many men, if not most, don’t place the same level of importance on how much a woman makes or how educated she is. Something else rarely factored in to this equation is the number of women out there who, themselves, are totally emotionally ambivalent and unavailable. Fear of commitment isn’t just for men any more.

In response, many of these men are choosing to exercise their options rather than deal with hoop jumping. They’re not sticking around those women long enough to be  judged based on things for which they never judged women in the first place .

Don’t kid yourselves. There’s a movement going on out there amongst men. People think I’m being dour and negative. I’m really not. I’m trying to get women to understand what they are up against.

These women are being replaced with the slew of women out there who don’t want or need a man to prove himself, for various reasons. Either the woman herself has decided she doesn’t need or want something committed and is fine with casually dating. Or she has let go of all the rules and guidelines and other trappings that keep many women single.  These women are paying their share of the bill, they’re perfectly comfortable being the breadwinners, and they’re not following anybody else’s rules about sex. They’re not listening to their friends or peers. They’re doing what they want. These are the women who are getting the relationships they seek. As Crotch Rocket once said. It’s not that men fear commitment. It’s that they fear committing to the wrong woman. Many of these men are committing. They’re just committing to the women who are available and free of all the rules and requirements.

Back to you, OP. You seem to be a little melodramatic here. If he’s not giving you what you want, leave. That’s it. But don’t demonize him for not fulfilling expectations that he never agreed to meet in the first place. If you must send him an email, get rid of that monologue above. It’s ridiculously involved and makes this guy very aware just how much you have thought about this, thereby scaring the bejeebus out of him. All you say is, “I’m hoping to spend more time together. Once every couple of weeks isn’t enough for me to continue to do this. Do you see yourself being able to give more time?”  No ultimatums or passive aggressive reveals about all the dates you’re passing up. He’s either going to try to meet your requested expectation or he’s going to be honest. But I have a feeling that, even if he says he can’t give you what you want, you’re still going to continue getting together with him. So I think you’re spinning your wheels here.

Those are my thoughts.

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Filed Under: Book, casual sex, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating Over 40, Dysfunction Junction, Friends With Benefits, Online Dating, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , ,

“Girlfriend” Is Just a Word

October 27, 2011 by 26 Comments

I know what you are saying Moxie and I don’t expect him to be a virgin when I’m thousands of miles away. But he did call me his girlfriend and he did say he loved me. While I told him I was disgusted at him having sex with someone else HOURS before he was with me, I was more upset by the emotional connection with another woman. That he led her to believe too that they had something special. In some ways watching someone sleep, eat and iron is more personal than sex. – Marshmallow

 

As I said to Marshmallow in response to her guest post, the words “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” don’t really mean anything. They are just titles. They are words we use to encapsulate or describe a certain kind of dynamic between two people. Calling someone your girlfriend is a hell of a lot easier than saying, “She’s this woman that I see from time to time and that I have sex with.”

Here’s a different way to describe it. When you’re making a photo copy of something, most of us typically say that we’re “Xeroxing” something. The machine itself probably isn’t a Xerox brand. But the term “xeroxing” is a way we associate the action with a commonly known product. That way we don’t have to go in to a deeper or longer explanation.

Calling someone your girlfriend or boyfriend is similar. It implies something, but often times what the term implies is not accurate.

A man can call a woman his girlfriend, even though they’ve never explicitly discussed monogamy, exclusivity or long term goals. The man knows that the use of the word alludes to a certain level of commitment. Most men don’t throw this word around liberally, as they know it’s a verbal contract of sorts. They use it sparingly and correctly. But others, like the guy in Marshmallow’s story, use it quite casually. It’s a manipulative tactic employed for her benefit. He knows how she interprets the word. It appeals to the woman’s romantic side. The side that counts and documents milestones. The side that likes to insert the word “boyfriend” into her status updates, tweets and in conversations with friends. (See an interesting article here about how women use the words boyfriend and husband as bragging rights.) Use of the word provides the woman with a sense of superiority amongst her female friends, and certain men know that and use it to their advantage.

Unless there is an explicit agreement between the two people that they do not wish to date or sleep with anyone else, then the terms “boyfriend”  or “girlfriend” are simply titles that can be used for bragging rights and nothing more. Someone who tells you that they aren’t dating anyone else because they are too busy is not saying they are exclusively dating/sleeping with you.

Also not very reliable is when you have to badger a man in to agreeing to allow you to call him your boyfriend. Warning to any man that finds himself in this position.  I can remember reading a conversation one between a man and a woman. They had been dating about  a month. The woman had recently been dumped by another guy and was clearly trying to make that guy jealous, because the minute the other man agreed to be called her boyfriend, she hopped on to Twitter to make a “formal announcement.” Of course, they broke up a couple weeks later. She didn’t really want a boyfriend. She just wanted to say she had a boyfriend. The word didn’t really mean anything. It was what the word implied that mattered. Behavior like this makes a woman very, very vulnerable to predatory guys.

One thing that worked against Marshmallow is that she saw the women fawning all over him on his Facebook page and questioned him about them. Right there, she played her hand and demonstrated her insecurity and competitiveness with other women. He had her. While I don’t think the guy in her story is crafty or even smart enough to come up with some master plan to manipulate her, he certainly knew what buttons to press. And pressed them and played into her insecurities. Calling her his girlfriend is a great way to soothe her, thereby making her more manageable. That’s the point of using these words. For control.

These are the types of loopholes that women need to look for when getting to know a man. A man with true intentions says exactly what he means, succinctly and concisely. In fact, the more he says, the more likely he is just trying to bamboozle you with words.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating a Manipulator, Douchey Guys, Friends With Benefits, Latests Posts, Sex Tagged With: , , , , ,
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