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Renting vs. Owning – What’s Really Involved With Living Together?

May 1, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 43 Comments

Boyfriend and I want to buy an apartment together. I asked my parents for a loan. They said they’d help me buy a place of my own but not one with him. They said I’m too young and haven’t been dating him long enough for me to make such an investment and that it’s too risky. I’m 22 and been dating him a year. Advice? – Nerve Confessions

I thought this might make for an interesting discussion.

First, there is the financial aspect of this scenario. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but in theory buying  an apartment with someone you’ve been dating all of a year – at 21/22 no less – seems like a huge financial risk.

I’d also be uncomfortable moving in with someone – at any age – where it was just his name on the paperwork. There just doesn’t seem to be any security in that.

How does one handle the legal aspects of co-habitation? Do you request that your name be put on the lease or mortgage? Or do you just cross your fingers and hope it works out and decide to think about the rest later?

Do you do credit checks on each other? Would you really reconsider living together if their credit or financial history doesn’t appear to be as sound as you’d like it to be?

What if the person you’re thinking of moving in with has never fully financially supported themselves? Would that be a concern?

As far as the poster’s age goes, when did people start moving in together at such a young age? I freely admit that I am an Old and could be out of touch. But is it me or does it seem that people move in together much more quickly these days? There was a time when living together meant you and your partner were on your way to something more long term. Now it feels as though this is just something people do and don’t put much thought in to it other than it will help them cut down on expenses.

I also wanted to discuss the whole renting vs. owning thing. Eliza brought up in a comment recently how she met a man who lived in a less than stellar apartment. She pointed out that it was a rental. Do people really care about whether or not someone rents versus owns? Why or why not?

Thoughts?

Filed Under: Co-Habitation, Commitment, Couple Conundrums, Dating, Dating & Finances, Shackin' Up Tagged With: , ,

True or False: How Much He Pays = How Much He Cares

April 18, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 46 Comments

I don’t judge men by how much money they make (I can take care of myself just fine), but I’ve learned through many years of dating that men paying for things is a pretty reliable predictor of how well they’re going to treat you in general and how much of a priority you will be for them. – Anonymous

 

True or False, folks?

 

Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Finances Tagged With: , , , ,

He Won’t Pay for Dates Until They’re Exclusive – Agree or Disagree?

March 22, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 72 Comments

I’ve been dating this guy for the past 3 weeks.  He seems sweet and shy.  When we are together we have a great time and are able to hold great conversations.  The chemistry seems to be there as he makes suggestions to hold my hand when we are walking around during our dates and the kissing just gives me the butterflies in my stomach.  However….two main issues have been a bit troublesome for me.  After our 1st date he suggested we take turns paying for our dates.  That was a big WOW for me.  I am a very giving person  and tend to help out on paying for dates but after 3 or 4 dates have passed.  Well, long story short I agreed to it.  Especially since he spoke with me about his past dates taking advantage of him financially and his last girlfriend was dependent on him financially.  He basically paid her personal bills.  This is new for me but it seems taking turns paying for our outings has eased him.  The bigger issue for me is that he is dating other women, including me.  I know that we are not exclusive but…  I have been use to the one on one dating routine I have had with other men.  I have been use to that if it doesn’t work out well then we can cut our loses and move on to dating others and end things.  I had this conversation with him and he states that he prefers to date me and openly date other women because we are not yet exclusive.  He states when we are then the situation will be one on one.   Am I conservative in my thinking or is it far fetched now a days to expect a guy to do the one on one dating and not date other women until we figure out what can happen between us? – Annabelle, NYC  – 38

This is new for me but it seems taking turns paying for our outings has eased him.  The bigger issue for me is that he is dating other women, including me.

So, he’s choosing not to spend money on you until you and he are exclusive? Hmmm. That sounds eerily familiar. Where have I heard that before? Oh. Right. From 75% of the women who have written in saying they won’t have sex with a guy until they are exclusive. Now you know how men feel. It’s all feels very quid pro quo, doesn’t it? That’s dating in this city and many others. The man is keeping his options open and refusing to spend too much money on any woman until he decides that he’s ready to be exclusive. What’s funny is that when a man does this, a woman dubs him “cheap.” But when a woman holds off on having sex with a man until she gets exclusivity or a promise of something more, she’s considered “prudent.”

Yes, I think you’re being conservative in your thinking. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but I can assure you that some if not all of those men you thought were engaging in a “one on one” dating situation weren’t. They just didn’t make the mistake of telling you that. Or they were smart and, if you asked, lied. Just like a woman should skirt the truth if a man asks her the same question. Bottom line is that neither parties want to know.

No guy wants to know that he’s paying for meals and drinks for a woman who is going out with other men who are doing the exact same thing for her. It makes him feel like a fool. And who wants to date a fool? I was reading this blog the other day, the one with the “Nominate a Date” campaign, and questioned out loud how this woman ever thought she would find a guy perfectly okay with knowing she was being treated to expensive outings by various men. We all know that the people we date are probably dating others. Especially if we meet them online. But we don’t want to know it. It makes it harder for us to justify spending the money or having the sexy time.

There are some questions that just should not be asked this soon in the dating process. “Are you dating anyone else” would be one of them. Any person who asks that question or offers up that information so soon in the dating process has very poor dating skills. So take note and heed that warning.

I am a very giving person  and tend to help out on paying for dates but after 3 or 4 dates have passed.

Right. And guys prefer that they get to get a blow job before they pay for 3 or 4 dates. Crass? Yes. Honest? Yes. Point? It’s not all about you.

I’m not sure what it is you gain from a man paying for 3 or 4 dates other than the delusion that that means, for sure,  he’s totally into you or not going to have sex with you and never call. Thoughts like this are to women what a woobie (blanket) is to a child. They provide nothing but a false sense of security. Women need to understand that if a man is that desperate for sex, money is no object. A sucker will take you out 4 times and pay every time without any sort of reciprocation because, well, he has to.

A man with a backbone will take you out on 4 dates, pay every time, but have sex with other women while he waits for you to decide it’s safe to reach in to your wallet or have sex. Then he’ll either dump you strictly on principle or continue sleeping with you and those other women and never offer you more than that.

 

 

 

Filed Under: Awkward, Book, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating In a Big City, Dating In The New Economy, Dating Skills Tagged With: , , , , , , ,

Money Matters

February 23, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 25 Comments

Remember this post?

Well, it seems the same woman went out with another starving artist type. Only this time he didn’t stick her with the bill. He actually paid for everything, every time. This unemployed man made sure to pick up the check after every date. And guess what? She’s still complaining.

Since he was a gentleman, he picked up the tab. We went out a few more times and each date was the same — bottles of wine, elaborate food, plus dessert. One day he revealed he had no idea how he was going to pay rent. It was a little awkward and it made me question all the elaborate dates. And his sanity.

The author is right in that it is awkward to date people who are unemployed or struggling financially. Typically, most people don’t divulge such information to people they barely know. But when they do, they do it for a reason, and it’s usually to keep expectations about how elaborate a date may be to a minimum. It’s a disclaimer.

Since he was a gentleman, he picked up the tab.

Ah. That again. So, he’s a gentleman for paying, but because he paid he’s financially irresponsible. If he had asked her to pay her share or not paid, he’d have been accused of being cheap. She’s clearly quite pleased with herself that she got  a man to pay for her cheesecake and wine. She wants to be sure everybody knows that. Apparently she has a totally passive role in all of this and isn’t able to suggest they just go for dollar beers and darts. This is all him. Got it. Gotta love that inconsistency.

Should someone be dating when they’re unemployed? That’s a personal choice. Should somebody allow someone who is unemployed to pay for all their dates? That’s another personal choice. Someone going out of their way to pay for their date when they are unemployed might just be trying too hard. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re unstable financially. It seems like people are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

I was saying to a client yesterday that the subject of financial security and stability has no place in an online dating profile. You don’t mention that you’re unemployed in your dating profile. Nor do you mention how financially secure or stable you are.  You don’t talk money, period. That’s the typical rule of thumb. It’s gauche and tacky. Not to mention, if a woman is divorced and she mentions in her ad that she’s financial secure, a lot of the men reading her ad will grumble under their breath, “Yeah. Thanks to your ex-husband and alimony.” In many cases, that’s not even true. The woman made her own investments and had her own savings and secure job. But she’ll be branded in a negative way strictly because many men have been conditioned to believe that every woman sucks her ex-husband dry in a divorce. Some do, of course. But not all women do that.

The whole topic of money is inappropriate this early in the game. But if it is raised, it’s usually done so for a reason, and that’s to communicate just how much they can offer financially. This guy is obviously quite socially inept or else he’d have never mentioned his financial situation at all. Or maybe he was hoping that this woman would get the hint and fork over some cash for her wine and dessert.  Could be that he was trying to keep up appearances or trying to impress her. Poorly, obviously, but still. In any case, the guy was screwed from the get go.

What really let’s say…intrigues me…was this statement:

And if it’s a choice between your rent and a date, you should probably put dating on hold until your finances are more stable.

Now, since she’s so comfortable questioning his financial responsibility, stability and judgment, I’m going to ask a question. Um, what the hell does she do for a living again? Because I’ll be damned if I can figure it out from reading her blog and column. Maybe she has a full time job. I don’t know. She never seems to mention one, but she might have one. It’s unlikely that she makes a living off of writing columns like this. Yes, I know, Carrie Bradshaw did it! Except..she didn’t, because she wasn’t real. If she were, she wouldn’t have been living in an UES studio with a closet full of designer label shoes and dresses. I mean, she could have done all that, but she was probably being very financially irresponsible if that was the case. Or she was doing what so many people in this city do and was withdrawing healthy amounts of cash from The Bank of Mom and Dad. I know I have from time to time. Not consistently, but I’ve been fortunate enough to have a father who worked extremely hard and planned well for me and was completely and utterly selfless when it came to money. Too my detriment actually. But money from parents isn’t the same as money you earn. Are we lucky to have access to it? Absolutely. But having that does not make us more financially secure or stable. It certainly doesn’t elevate us to a higher level where we can justifiably judge someone else’s finances.

So here’s my Fail to Fab moment: It’s tacky to talk money in any context with someone you’ve just met, but it’s even more unattractive to sit around and dissect how someone manages their money, especially when you so willingly allow them to spend their money on you.

 

Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Blogging, Dating & Finances, Dating In a Big City, Dating In The New Economy Tagged With: , , , ,

The Emperor’s New Clothes aka Why You’re Really Single

February 7, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 19 Comments

While looking over profiles a few weeks ago, I came across one that really stood out. Just not in a good way.  The guy’s profile wasn’t just labored. It was awkward. There were stories and references in his ad that just made no sense or seemed out of place. He was trying way too hard to sound breezy and fun and ended up coming across just the opposite.  I debated whether or not to contact him and offer my advice, but decided against it. No doubt this guy believed his profile was great. The best. I didn’t see the point in rattling any cages.

He, along with many, many other singles, suffer from The Emperor’s New Clothes Syndrome. There are these glaring things about their personality or looks or social skills that is obvious to those around them. But nobody says anything because they fear the person is either too fragile, to volatile or too delusional to hear what is being said and believe it. Or they just don’t care enough about the person to say anything. So these people go through life naked not only expecting but wanting people to compliment them on their attire. And many do, either out of pity or indifference. These people tend to surround themselves with others like them. That way they’re more likely to hear what they want to hear. (Which is why blogging about dates is so popular.)

There are certain flaws that are almost always universally ignored, but are undoubtedly why people can’t get past the first date or two.  Such as:

1. They’re not as attractive as they think they are – I’ll go even further. They’re not terribly attractive, period. They’re able to get photos taken at certain angles that make them appear more attractive than they are or to minimize certain flaws. But in 3-D they simply aren’t all that good looking.They’ve gone through life being told they were attractive in a “quirky” way and that beauty is skin deep. Yeah, maybe. But not in dating. Beauty is front and center. We’re shallow creatures. Let’s not pretend we aren’t. Also? How young you look or feel is mostly irrelevant. It’s how old you are that carries the most weight. Women who think they look 35 but are actually 40-45 and pursuing the 35-40 year old guys are deluding themselves. Sorry, but unless they have forgone the desire for kids or marriage, they don’t want you. They might date you for awhile, but you will eventually be replaced with a younger version. Could be in 2 months, could be in 2 years. Same goes for you older fellas of 40+ who date the twenty somethings. Those women will not settle down with you. They will date you and let you woo them. But you are mostly an experiment or a way for them to exorcise their Daddy Issues.

2. They have poor social skills- Nothing is more apparent than someone’s lack of social and interpersonal skills. They talk too much, they interrupt, they’re loud, they’re whiny, they complain a lot. These people go through life exhibiting boorish behavior because people are usually too afraid to speak up to them.They hijack conversations, they’re combative, they’re self-involved. All of this kind of navel gazing behavior makes it apparent that that person has little to no extended or consistent interaction with other people. They have not been socialized properly.

3. They’re  personality is rancid - They’re self-important, pretentious and/or negative.  They have to be right. They’re critical. People can’t wait to get away from them. They tell themselves that people are threatened by them or intimidated by them. No, love. You’re just incredibly unlikeable. People end up wanting you to be alone after being exposed to you for 20 minutes.

4. They’re angry/crazy - Yeesh. There are some comments here that are extremely unsettling. The anger borders on rage. Usually narcissistic rage. People like this have been kicked and battered around so much that they want others to suffer the way they have suffered. Make no mistake. Most people can sense when someone is off kilter mentally or emotionally. Most people just back away slowly from these folks. They offer some silly excuse about not being ready to date. They will never be honest with the person about why things didn’t work. They’re too afraid of them.

5. They’re overweight - I can assure you that a large number of the women who blog about all their bad dates and only have FWB’s and the rare hook up are chubby. They’re okay enough to have sex with, but not date. I speak from experience on this one. People, if you’re constantly getting ditched on first dates, or can only get guys to get together with you once every couple of weeks,  you’re probably overweight. You are the low person on the dating totem pole to them. I can not urge women enough to become acutely aware of how their weight affects who they attract online. When you’re overweight, you become a prime target for the pump and dumpers and opportunists. They think you’re desperate and will accept what you can get. I will say this very bluntly…you are weeding yourself out of the dating pool by keeping that weight on. And mind you, I’m not talking an extra twenty pounds. I’m also not referring to women who carry their weight well and own it. Those women do juuust fine. Trust me. I’m talking to the the women who KNOW their weight is an issue and ignore it.

6. They’ve let themselves go or don’t take care of themselves -  In any competitive dating market, you can’t afford to slack off on your looks. You just can’t. There is constant upkeep necessary. Nothing says, “I’ve given up” like packing on weight or poor skin and hair. I’ve said this before…the difference between the male dating profiles under 38 or so versus 40 and over is drastic. Lots of chubby, pasty guys. The women look far better, but that’s because we’re bombarded with messages and images about skin care and hair coloring products and gyms. Dear Lords, men. Moisturize.  If you do anything, moisturize. And Ladies? Stop with the excuses. In most cases barring medical issues, it’s not your metabolism. It’s your discipline. You can blame work or stress or meds (another common excuse) but more often than not it comes down to good old fashioned effort and desire. Stop lying to yourself and look in the mirror.

7. They’re desperate – Ugh. There is nothing more cringe inducing than someone who tries too hard. The whole time I read that man’s profile I mentioned above, I winced. This guy has no idea how insecure and desperate he sounded. These people always manage to put their foot in their mouths and play their hands. What they reveal is what poor luck they have with the opposite sex. They become too eager and anxious and bombard people with texts and emails. They get defensive. And needy. The send email after email.  The last thing you want someone to know is that they are your only option. It turns on the pressure. Plus, we all want someone who we believe is wanted by others.

Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating & Weight, Dating In a Big City, Douchey Guys, Drama Queens, First Date Jitters, Friend Zone, Latests Posts, Online Dating, Red Flags Tagged With: , , , , ,

Breaking News: Sometimes Dating Is Awkward

February 2, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle 15 Comments

I was reading this story this morning and thought it brought up an interesting dilemma that many of us encounter on first dates.

How do you end a date when you don’t feel that there’s any attraction or mutual interest in a way that’s dignified and respectful?

My interpretation of this story is that the guy decided that he wasn’t interested in seeing the author again. So he waited for a window of opportunity and then announced that he was “low on funds” (yeesh) and had to end the date. When the check came, he offered up a $5 bill and said he thought they would Go Dutch. (Keep it classy, brah!) The bill was $20.

It’s not clear how many drinks each person had. Maybe his portion of the bill was $5. I don’t know. What I know, or at least believe, is that this guy didn’t really care if he made a bad impression. That or he was fishing for a woman to support his starving artist ass and this was a litmus test. Either way, his behavior is horrifying. To be fair,  this woman has  a penchant for going out on dates with some serious asshats. So either her perception of the dates is seriously off or she is a magnet for men who lack any semblance of social graces.

From her story:

You might not be a millionaire but that doesn’t mean you can completely forget about being a gentleman. Spending hundreds of dollars isn’t necessary, but at least plan a nice evening you can afford and offer to pick up the tab at the end.

I do not agree that – because he’s the man – he’s obligated to “be a gentleman” as the author suggests and pay the full tab. If you accept a date with someone who is an actor or “artist” then you should take that to mean they have limited funds. Especially if you met him on a free website like POF or OKCupid. (Not sure where she met him.) You can’t get all gushy because the guy works in some “sexy” field that typically involves less than stable finances only to turn around and be offended that he’s not covering your $20 tab. Here’s the neat thing about those “starving artist” types…they’re usually pretty obvious about it. Thy might not come out and say they are tapped out for the moment, but if you put the pieces together you can figure it out. In for a dime, in for a dollar. So to speak.

Instead of ending the date abruptly because you’re “low on funds,” get the check after a couple of drinks and then head out for a nice walk. That way you can end the date and still maintain that romantic vibe without the reminding yourself (and your date) that money isn’t plentiful.

To me the real issue the author seems to have isn’t that he didn’t pay the bill. It’s that he thought nothing of making his potential lack of interest/class so obvious. He wasn’t even trying to make a decent impression. That can be embarrassing.The rest of her advice seems to encourage that the guy continue with the charade so that she can leave the date feeling like she had been wooed and that she was the one who rejected him and not the other way around. Breaking: some people don’t care if they hurt your feelings. We do not live in Candyland. So gird your loins if you plan on dating in an area where there is a high concentration of douchebags. People don’t suddenly turn in to classless boors or thoughtless jerks after a one Bud Lite. Typically, the signs are there. Even before we meet. We just choose to ignore them. It’s funny how we can be blinded by that “sexy” job. Or accent. Or apartment. Or looks.

Let’s get back to the original issue. What is the right way to end a date when you know you’re not interested in a second one? What’s the protocol? How do you avoid awkward moments?

In my experience, you just try to make the best of it. You finish your drink, you turn down an offer for a second and then you wait for the conversation to lull a bit and then you tell your date you’re going to leave. There’s no need to inform them that you don’t think there’s an attraction or connection. That is probably the worst thing you can do. Let them go. Should they ask you if you don’t feel a mutual interest, then be honest. But don’t make an already uncomfortable situation more uncomfortable by announcing your reason for leaving so soon. Oh, and offer your share of the bill. Don’t force them to take it. Just offer it. That’s why you should always have cash on you when you go on first dates. That way you can avoid that awkward time where you wait for the bill to arrive. Most guys will reject the offer. But some guys won’t and will take your money out of spite. Be prepared for that.

This is all part of dating. If you’re sitting there thinking that this is why you talk on the phone or wait 2 weeks to meet or come up with some other excuse why you hate wasting your time, please stay home. You’re only revealing your lack of maturity, experience and social skills. Yes, Virginia, sometimes we have to do things that make us uncomfortable. That’s part of being an adult. All we can do is try to make it as painless and shameless as possible for both involved. By the age of about 20 one should have learned how to disengage from an awkward conversation or situation. You stick out your hand and you say that it was nice to meet them and you walk away.

“But what if he/she is a scary serial killer!!! I might be in danger!”

I realize that there are times when we encounter people who aren’t, well, all there. It’s a downside of online dating and dating in general. But the chances of that actually happening are slim. Yes, there’s a chance you’ll get a nasty email or snarky text. Just delete it and move on. Don’t engage the person. They’ve obviously been rejected quite a bit or lack experience themselves and take everything personally. Let’s not make  a big production out of this. It’s simply an awkward date.  Nothing more.

If you haven’t learned how to manage these situations, learn. Because that, too, is an intrinsic part of the dating process. Sometimes people are jerks. Sometimes you choose people poorly and ignore red flags. There’s a learning curve involved with dating. If you don’t force yourself to engage in situations where you aren’t 100% sure it will be worth your time or a success, you’ll never get up to speed.

 

Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Finances, Gender Roles, Latests Posts, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , ,

Don’t Get Bamboozled By a Bad Dater

January 4, 2012 By Andthatswhyyouresingle

Name: David
State: NJ
Age: 40
Comment: Looking for an honest perspective, so even though I feel like I handled this well, I figured I’d pose the question.

I’ve been using eHarmony.  So far, not bad.  But eHarmony has this “guided communication process” that some people think is cumbersome, so when I tried to begin it with one woman, she e-mailed me back looking to skip the process.  Not just the process, but the whole e-mail thing.  She e-mailed me her phone number, right off the bat, and asked me to call.  So I did, and we had a nice convo.  We made plans to meet up after work yesterday in midtown Manhattan (she’s in Kew Gardens, Queens, I’m in NJ).

We said we’d firm up the meeting spot on the day of. We had already decided to meet near a particular stop on the subway she would normally take home.  So I found a cafe close to where we’d meet.  I figured we’d meet there, chill, and then, if we wanted, find someplace to eat and continue the date if we wanted.  Her reply was that, because of how cold it was, we should just meet at a restaurant right off the bat.  So I suggested a restaurant down the street from the cafe (I’d already found one).  She said that, since neither of us knew that spot, we should go to this one restaurant in the area that she had been to once and enjoyed.  She said she would find the name of it and text me.

At this point, I’m becoming skeptical of her, for reasons I’ll explain below.  An hour or so later, she texted that she had made reservations at this one restaurant.  I was driving at the time.  later, I googled the place, and I found that it was a nice, but pretty high priced restaurant.  The cheapest entree was $25, and most were over $30.  So she took us from a casual, low key cafe to an expensive restaurant.

While I was back on the road (between work-related meetings), I thought about it and decided that I really didn’t want to spend what would end up at about $110, after tip and drinks, on a pre-first-date meeting with a woman whom I really knew very little about.  And I took the further step of deciding that she probably was seeking the higher $$$ option on purpose.  So about two hours after her text, I texted her back, saying that something came up at work, and that I’d never make it nearly on time.  She did not text back.

I always assume I’m paying for dates, and I pretty much always do.  I’m not rich, but I’m not cheap when it comes to that.  However, I am quite firm in my approach to the first meeting with someone I met online.  A cafe, or a Barnes & Noble, or something like that; no expensive, sit down dinners at classy restaurants.  Especially in this case: eHarmony’s profiles are not detailed enough, so skipping the whole guided process meant knowing almost nothing about her.  We had one phone conversation that lasted maybe an hour.  Plus, for what it’s worth, her pictures are both face-only.  And we’re geographically inconvenient to one another.  Not a deal breaker for me, but a factor under the circumstances.

Having started out suggesting something low key and informal, my intuition was that she wanted to gauge my worthiness to date based on how willing I would be to shell out.  But in this circumstance, I think that’s unreasonable, and, in any event, reflective of a value system in conflict with mine.  Or, maybe I misread the whole thing and sabotaged myself out of a chance with my future one-and-only.  Thoughts?

 

I think you did the right thing. Even if she wasn’t angling for a free meal or sniff testing you, she was displaying horrible dating manners.

I know a lot of people will immediately accuse this woman of just looking for a free meal. That could totally be the case. However, people often assume that there was an intent to use or mislead when, more likely, the person is just a clueless Bad Dater. Sadly, many people don’t understand basic first date protocol or know what is and isn’t appropriate. Those are things you learn the more you date. But if this woman is exhibiting this kind of behavior frequently, she’s barely getting any first dates, let alone second or third.

You said that she circumvented the system and quickly wished to move to a phone call rather than exchange emails and she only had a couple of head shots on her profile. While I don’t know if it’s a bad idea to skip the emails, it’s certainly not  a good sign that she only had two headshots. This woman was in a rush. Not only that, but she wanted to call the shots. Two more bad signs. She wasn’t considering you. Probably because she has been alone for so long that she doesn’t know how to do that. Which is why she’s been alone for so long. See? It’s a vicious cycle.

Then she overrode your choice of meeting spots and chose a restaurant. That’s another bad sign, and also a hint at her possible lack of dating experience. You just don’t do that. You try to make the first meeting as simple as possible. No last minute changes or road blocks, as you then start off with strikes against you and now have to work harder to compensate. You also don’t choose an expensive restaurant for a first meeting. You don’t choose a restaurant, period. Again, anybody who’s dated enough knows that the only people who choose restaurants for a first meeting are either trying too hard, looking for a benefactor or rarely go on dates.

My guess is she assumed that since you two yapped on the phone for an hour, you were now friends and she could therefore be a little more fussy. Side note: What the hell do you have to say on the phone to a total stranger that could take an hour? This might seem odd, but I’d consider that another red flag.  It’s just not normal and it’s overly familiar.

I don’t think this is a simple case of a woman looking for  a free meal. I actually think that this woman probably doesn’t date much and therefore has no idea how to behave appropriately. If I were to spitball, I’d say that this woman has had so many false starts that she’s trying to jump a few steps before she gets ditched.

How do you tell the difference between someone with bad intentions and a bad dater? That really doesn’t matter, as you don’t want to date either of those people. The bad dater will be like a puppy that needs to be trained. The person with bad intentions will seem too perfect. Either way, they’ll end up being too much work.

 

ALSO: Disagreements and debates are acceptable here. Just please refrain from hostility and personal attacks towards other posters. If I see it, I’ll moderate your future comments. And if it continues, I’ll simply never approve any of your future comments.  If your only argument is to call someone  insecure or a bitch or whatever, then you don’t have an actual argument. You just have  a grudge. Also, please try not to monopolize threads by repeating yourself or using conjecture. That is another case where I’ll moderate your comments and wait a few hours until I approve them just to avoid having the threads become difficult to read/navigate. Please stick to the topic. If you don’t know the definition of something, look it up. Don’t ask others to explain something to you. Finally, please don’t use up comment space to say some variation of “I agree.” Just vote them a thumbs up.

Thanks.

Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating Over 40, Meeting Women, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , ,

Do Men Really Care What A Woman Does For A Living?

December 6, 2011 By Andthatswhyyouresingle

Name: Eliza
State: NYC
Age: 40
Comment: Question for the fellas.  Do men really care what type of position a woman holds.  That is, if she is a secretary, that is well spoken, but not in love with her line of work, yet very competent and self-sufficient–will a successful business man or entrepreneur date a secretary?  Or do titles play a role–living in New York City that is?

Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating Over 40, Gender Roles, Latests Posts, Meeting Men Tagged With: , , , , , ,

Why Men No Longer Pay for First Dates

November 30, 2011 By Andthatswhyyouresingle

This would be why so many men have stopped paying for first dates.

RT @villagevoice: Single Lady Brags About Using http://Match.com to Get Guys to Buy Her Dinner http://bit.ly/tlPvA7

From the brillaint Jen Doll’s piece:

Yeah, New York is expensive. Yeah, you have high standards and you want to, like, buy shoes and go out and have fun. Yeah, this is a hilarious little tale to share with your girlfriends, the way you would share tales of bad, hilarious dates. Men use women far more than women use men, that’s the stereotype, right? And bankers “were thrilled to woo her with extraordinary restaurants like the underground taqueria La Esquina and a Japanese restaurant, Megu, in Tribeca. One guy even took her to a champagne bar and purchased a $200 bottle.”

Ha ha. What a gas. Further, what an economic windfall:

Sporty went from easily spending $500 a month on dinners alone to having someone else dole out an average of $60-plus per night. She also stopped eating lunch and opted for a light breakfast to save even more.

There were actually spreadsheets made of all the dates these women had, how much the guy spent, etc. Remember how I said that men have the same fear of being used as women have? This is why.

Hopefully she met a ton of men who were “old fashioned” and “acted like gentleman.”

Thoughts?

Filed Under: Bad Dates, Dating, Dating & Finances, Latests Posts Tagged With: , , , , ,

Should She Give The Cheap Bad Kisser Another Chance?

November 14, 2011 By Andthatswhyyouresingle

Name: Parvati
State: NJ
Age: 44
Comment: I met a guy at a Moxie/ATWYS event and we clicked really well. After a few weeks of emailing and phone calls, we finally met in person.  We found it really easy to talk to each other and I enjoyed getting to know him. At the end of the evening, he asked me to pay my share of the meal.  As a feminist, I have no problem doing this.  As a girl being courted, I was a little surprised as I am accustomed to a gentleman at least offering to pay. Especially as he is an executive at a big corporation with a high salary and I work at a non-profit.  I handed over half the cost of the meal and we ended the date with a hug and made tentative plans to meet the following weekend.

During our second date the next weekend, another dinner, we got along quite well.  Conversation flowed easily and many of our values and thoughts seemed to be in sync. Although I was not unduly physically attracted to him, I felt that we got along so well it was worth spending time with him to see if more romantic feelings might develop. When the check arrived, he said “that will be $45 each.”  This meant the tip would end up being less than 10% so I surreptitiously left a little more to make up for it.

He drove me home and parked outside my building to finish the conversation we were in the middle of. Suddenly, he asked if he could kiss me.  It was said a little shyly and I kind of nodded my head, believing it would be a sweet first kiss, maybe a soft peck on the lips. Instead, he grabbed my head, pulled it forcefully towards him, and drove his tongue into my mouth. It was a very slobbery, aggressive and unpleasant experience.  I tried to push him away but he held my head in a bit of a vice grip and began kissing my face — forehead, eyelid, chin, etc. just when I thought it was over, he went back into my mouth and swirled his tongue round and round in a dizzying imitation of a high school freshman at his first makeout session.  He ended by planting a loud “razberry” on my cheek — so weird.  He ended with “I’m glad we did that.”  When I tried to respond, he asked me not to talk as that would spoil it.

I ended the night thinking I had no interest in seeing him again.  However, the next morning I saw he had left me a voicemail – in it he said “Even though our kiss was obviously a mutual decision, I sensed you were pulling away a little bit so I wanted to let you know that we can go at a slower pace because I want things to work out for both of us.”  Not exactly an apology, but an acknowledgement.

I am left with mixed feelings. Am I wrong to feel that he should have at least offered to pay if he was indeed expecting a romantic relationship?  Is cheapness (not paying, low tip) a quality that can be overlooked?  Am I wrong to feel violated by the aggressive kissing since I sort of gave him permission?  Should I give him another chance since its so hard to find people that you connect well with?  Can sexual chemistry grow from the foundation of a friendship?  I would appreciate any thoughtful advice that will help further my thinking, help me understand his perspective or provide any wisdom.  Thanks!

 

It sounds to me like you’re trying to force attraction where there is none. If you’re not feeling it, you’re not feeling it. I appreciate the fact that you’re trying to give this guy a chance. I also admire that you’re not immediately throwing him in the trash. But if the attraction isn’t there, it isn’t there. Sure, you could give it more time and things might turn around. You can do that. But everything in your letter screams “Tell me it’s okay to dump this guy.” The real question is, are you basing your decision on things that really matter, or are you looking for reasons to justify your lack of attraction? Furthermore, if you are looking for reasons to justify your lack of interest, why do you feel a need to justify it at all? A compulsion to defend a choice like this makes me think you feel you’re being unfair somehow. Or maybe you feel that, at our age, we really don’t have a right to “be so picky.”

I’ll say this. At our age, we do have to be careful of buying in to the “I won’t settle” thing. Bottom line is, if we’re the catch we think we are, we wouldn’t be having the difficult we’re having.  But that doesn’t mean that you have to try and force a square peg in to a round hole. Could the things you mentioned be fixed? Yes. That is, if you really want to fix them. Which I don’t think you do.

Am I wrong to feel that he should have at least offered to pay if he was indeed expecting a romantic relationship?

I think you’re wrong to assume to know why he did or didn’t pay. Maybe he didn’t think you were interested. Maybe he didn’t want to offend you. Maybe he doesn’t believe in paying a woman’s way. Maybe you were giving off signs of disinterest and weren’t even aware of it. Maybe he’s going through some financial difficulties. Maybe he was doing what some guys do and testing you. (FYI..guys? Stop that. It makes you look ridiculously douchey. If you’re that bitter, stay home.) There are a lot of reason why this guy didn’t pay.

Is cheapness (not paying, low tip) a quality that can be overlooked?

Just because he didn’t pay for you doesn’t mean he’s cheap. I’ll give you the low tip thing. That’s a stickler for me as well, but I’ve made that mistake before of calculating incorrectly. It happens. You don’t know enough about this guy to make broad assumptions. He did call you and acknowledge that you seemed distant during and after the kiss. That’s a sign that he’s not totally self-absorbed. He’s acknowledging you and your feelings. That’s something worth considering.

You’ve set up this and all of  these questions so that there’s really only one plausible answer.  Pose the situation this way and the natural response would be No, you shouldn’t see him again. The way you’ve framed this whole scenario makes it clear what you want to do, but you also want to appear as though you’re trying to be flexible. It’s either one or the other. Can’t be both.

Am I wrong to feel violated by the aggressive kissing since I sort of gave him permission?

Ok. Let’s back up here for a moment. I’m not sure when this little trend started wherein women like to paint men as predatory creeps simply because they guy expresses some physical interest, but it’s absolute bullshit. It’s also quite offensive to anybody who has been truly violated. Some dude who doesn’t know how to kiss is not “violating” you. The man in the story is guilty of being a bad kisser. Not forcing himself upon a woman . Those are two very different things. Some guys are tools and deserve the ire they get. But some women need to see the difference between a man who is intentionally ignoring her signals and a man who is just socially clueless and inexperienced. They also need to learn how to recognize when they are projecting their issues on to the guy and trying to make him out to be the bad guy just to reconcile with their own regret or insecurity. Take these examples:

1. Women meets man. Man sends her a text asking her to meet for a drink. Woman tells man she has a busy week ahead of her but doesn’t specify how or why. Guy sends a text the next day asking if she’s free for a drink. Woman says no and complains to friends about how pushy the guy is. She agrees to meet him later in the week at a loud bar with a DJ, with friends in tow. (Hi. Rude.) The guy ends up standing close to her to talk to her. Woman accuses him of “violating her personal space.” Or,gee, maybe IT WAS LOUD IN THAT BAR YOU CHOSE and he wanted to be sure you heard him. At one point they attempt to move through the crowd to a quieter spot. Man puts hand on the small of the woman’s back as they walk. Women tells friends he once again was invading her personal space. (Actually, I think that’s somewhat chivalrous, as their trying to guide you through a crowd safely.)  She then allows this man, the one she said kept invading her space, to escort her through a dark parking lot and offers him a ride to his car. Upon arriving at his car, guy leans in for a kiss. Omigod!!! Predator! Predator!!!! Woman declines his invite for  a second date because she felt the guy didn’t pay attention to her signals and violated her personal space.

2. Woman dates a guy with a female roommate. One morning she wakes up to find him lying on his roommates bed, with his female roommate who is clad only in a “nightgown”, watching television. Man is accused of not being a gentleman. It couldn’t be that he was trying to be courteous and not wake her and chose to go to his roommates room to watch TV so as not to disturb her. He MUST be trying to seduce his roommate while she’s asleep in the other room.

3. Woman gets fixed up with a guy through friends. Woman decides the guy is a jerk and turns down his invitation for another date. Woman reads the newspaper some time later (it’s not clear when) and reads about the man, and learns the man is now engaged. Women does some Googling and learns he’s been with the woman for some time. (Good thing she was so disinterested in him.) Therefore, it MUST be that the man was a cheating asshole. Which makes no sense because she was introduced to him via a friend. So now the friend and the guy are complicit in his act of douchebaggery. Couldn’t be that he and this woman took a break. It HAS to be that he’s an unfaithful louse and his friend was a pimp.

All of these are examples of how some women like to immediately assume the worst in men. Now, maybe these guys were all shady. Or maybe these women are just really, really insecure or trying to justify why they discarded yet another perfectly decent guy.

OP, if you’ve decided he’s cheap, then there doesn’t seem to be a point in me trying to talk you out of not seeing him again. Which is what I think you want me to do. Sorry. Not giving you absolution.  I’m sure you have girlfriends who would be happy to tell you they think this guy is a cheap face-raper. You don’t need me.

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