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Do Men Consider Women In Their 40′s Relationship Material?

April 24, 2013 by 162 Comments

Name: NBKEYBOARDACCESS

Comment: Moxie,

I’m a 40 yo single woman who has usually had a boyfriend, hence, I just started online dating about 5 months ago. Needless to say, it has been a disappointing and discouraging experience. I’ve never proactively dated, so I’m on the naive side. I do look 6-10 years younger,(and yes, I know every girl says this, but I’m happy to attach pictures to confirm)and am often asked out by men in their late 20′s to early 30′s. I recognize that these men have no interest in a relationship, but I’m always up for a fun night so I occasionally go. When I first started online dating the endless parade of dates was fun and exciting, but it got exhausting fast. 80% of them were unattractive or incompatible, and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand. Mind you, OKC was my site of choice.. so now I’m trying to limit myself to men who want more than a one night stand and to that end, will be upgrading from OKC to match.

My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material, or should I limit myself to 45+ yo men? As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand.

I’m going to blown your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.
My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material,

For the most part? No. Certainly not if they want children. But you’ll pursue them anyway, I’m sure because you’re convinced that you look young enough to be considered relationship material by them. That’s why you made it a point to mention your youthful appearance. You were setting up your defense. (And mind you, I wrote that part before I even read that last line.)

should I limit myself to 45+ yo men?

I don’t know if I would say that you should “limit” yourself to them. I think a better word is “focus.” You should direct your attention and efforts to meeting men in the 45+ range if you seek something committed and long term. If you seek a relationship, then you need to be looking at the Divorced Dad crowd and the guys in their mid/late forties to early fifties. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I don’t understand this whole thing about not wanting to date guys in their mid-forties. Yes, I know. You’re really active and fit and still dance like nobody’s watching, like when you were 25. You know what is the best thing about dating men 45 and older? They actually want you. Unlike those 38 year olds you’re hanging your hopes on who might date you for a few months until someone younger comes along. Because she will.

As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.

Nope. They pretty much still prefer younger women. The ones who are open to dating a woman of 40+ are in pretty high demand. If you want them, then be ready to go to the mattresses, because you will have stiff competition. Age trumps hotness, I’m afraid. Except with the younger guys. They just want to bang you for the story and experience.

I realize that this isn’t what you wanted to hear. But the fact is that you’ve had a string of boyfriends and nothing appears to have resulted in what you wanted. Or maybe it did and you’re just looking for a guy to date for a little while. I don’t know. What I know is that you’re now 40 and you’re doing what you can to find reasons why you can’t meet someone appropriate. It’s not OK Cupid’s fault. Welcome to dating at 40. Match isn’t going to be much different, especially if you try to get the guy in his thirties. This is what it’s like. You had 15+ years to find your Mr. Right. For whatever reason, none of those worked out in the way you wanted. Now you’re hoping that lightening will strike again.

The problem isn’t an algorithm or a website. You’re grappling with facing the reality that this is how dating is for you now. I’ve noticed that the women who return to the dating scene at some point in the last few years struggle the most. The dating landscape has changed and will continue to change change rapidly. It’s just..harder now. Especially for women our age. I’ve said this before: the 37-44 year old men in Manhattan and even Brooklyn aren’t looking for us. You’re going to have to branch out and start looking in Connecticut and New Jersey or even further. If you insist on local, then you have to channel your search and make yourself available to the 45-50 crowd. A lot of men 40-45 are still hanging on to the possibility of having children. Even if that pang to reproduce is faint, those guys are going to naturally seek out women they believe are of optimum child bearing age.

Dating isn’t like a vending machine. When the last Snickers bar is gone, the universe doesn’t magically put 10 more in your path. Your choice is to wait around for someone to come along and refill that option or select the Twizzler or Baby Ruth. Yeah, it’s not what you originally wanted. Someone came along before you and bought that Snickers before you could have a chance. That’s what it’s like to date at 40 in Manhattan or probably any other major city where there is an overage of single women to single men.

You can continue to pursue the late thirties to early forties guy. I’m not saying that getting one of them to commit is impossible. What you have to ask yourself is whether the frustration you will experience by holding out for them is worth your time. You also have to consider is whether or not you want to take those hits and run the risk of becoming less available and more impatient. There really is nothing more sad than listening to a woman in her mid-thirties and older complain about online dating and dating in general. The stench of bravado and remorse in her words is a pungent one.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, Older Women/Younger Men, On OK Cupid, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Online Dating: How Much Rejection Is Normal?

March 31, 2013 by 37 Comments

Name: Maria
Age: 35
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Comment: Hi, I am wondering if what happens to me is “normal” in the dating world here in NYC.  I am 35, on OKC and I get asked out a lot.  I meet an average of 3 guys per week, which some would consider lucky.  I think I would feel lucky if all I wanted was to go to countless dates with men that 98% of the time I never hear back from.  Is this normal? Do other women experience what I take as rejection??

 

3 dates a week doesn’t sound abnormal for OK Cupid. It’s a free website. As many people have mentioned in previous threads, OKC attracts a number of time wasters. That site is heavily populated by folks not terribly interested in anything beyond attention or a casual relationship. Hence why you’re getting so much action. I’m going to guess that you’re a quantity over quality person. You go out with pretty much everyone who asks because you like feeling so in demand. OK Cupid is like a fun house mirror in that it provides a distorted view of our desirability and attractiveness. Hate to be the bearing of bad news, but let’s just say that that site isn’t known for attracting men who are terribly picky.

I highly doubt that the majority of men you’re meeting on OK Cupid are actually looking for a relationship.  Getting dates with OKC is beyond easy. Getting quality dates is much, much harder. Many of those guys are taking you out in the hopes of hooking up. When that doesn’t happen they just move on. That would explain a good portion of the rejection that you are experiencing.

The other contributing factor is probably that you’re disappointing these men somehow. Either your profile is too good and full of embellishments or..dun dun DUN! you don’t look like your photos.

While it’s not abnormal to have many one off first dates that lead no where, it is atypical to have that many not lead to a second date. So something is off. Whomever you present online is not translating offline. You should be getting more men following up if you’re having 3 dates a week. So, in addition to meeting a lot of one and doners,  it’s either an issue of inaccurate photos or you’re just not terrible interesting/engaging. That’s something that a lot of people don’t consider. Everybody thinks they “rock” first dates. Few people actually do. Every person I’ve ever known or heard of who was booking multiple online dates every week always, to me, seemed to have something “off” about them. Either they seemed burnt out on the process or over-anxious or completely desensitized to the process. I think 2 dates a week with two different people is pushing it. More than that and you’re just overloading your mental hard drive. People assume because they get so many dates or have so many people eager to commit to them that that actually means what they think it means. A lot of times it doesn’t. You’d be surprised what people will do and say just to get sex on the regs. Or at all.

I don’t know how to say this without some people feeling as though I am trying to crush their spirit. Dating in Manhattan or in any city where there is an overage of single women to single men is tough. Trying to date in Manhattan as a woman in her mid to late thirties and older is brutal. As harsh as this sounds, the odds are just against us. My suggestion to you, OP, as well as to all the other women in your age range and above is to branch out. Way out. Like Boston or Connecticut or Philadelphia. Or maybe even further. We are just not in demand here. I’m not saying that you should completely count out the men where you live. I’m suggesting that you widen the net.

I will also advise any woman over 35 that is looking for a relationship to rely more heavily on the paid dating sites. Use OK Cupid, as it’s a great way to get dates and get out. Who knows, you might strike gold. But if you really want something serious, OK Cupid is just not the place to go. You are up against it on that site, competing with a lot of women in the same boat.

As for the guys who struggle, all the whining and sad sackery has to stop. Get off the angry man forums. Many of you sound like the 98 pound weakling who just had sand kicked in his face at beach. If you want a certain type of woman, you need to up your game. That means dressing and sounding the part. You can say all you like how unfair it is that women don’t like nice stable guys but deep down you know that’s not true. They just don’t want you. It’s time for you to stop listening to all the other losers at love and break free from that pack. Maybe it would serve you well to look elsewhere, too. Either that or suck it up and accept that your $10 first date policy isn’t cutting it. Time to break open the wallet and pull yourself together. Congrats, you stay in shape or you’re pretty or you have a job. Whoopee. You’re hardly unique. If you want people to notice you or take you seriously you have to present yourself in a certain way.

If you’re surrounded by people who bring more to the table, and at any given time you probably are, then you need to either up your game in some way and/or go where people want what you can offer. If you aren’t willing to do either, then you need to accept the reality of your situation quickly and learn to adapt.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, OKCupid, On OK Cupid, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips, Rejection Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Why Did She Get More Attention From Men When She Was Overweight?

March 10, 2013 by 9 Comments

Name: Just Wondering
Comment: This is more for curiosity’s sake than anything else–why did I get more attention from men (online) when I was chubby?  A few years ago (in my early 20s) I was 50 pounds heavier and got FAR more responses from my online profile.  A serious 5 year relationship and a loss of 50 pounds later I’m back on and get next to no attention (I have chosen photos to post that I get compliments on, full body shot, etc. I do get more attention from men when I’m out in public than I used to, though).  Really I only seem to get contacted by guys looking for sex, which in and of itself is fine, but I am pretty clear about looking for a relationship in my profile.

It’s not like I’m losing sleep over this, I’m just curious.  Should I post a chubby pic on my profile to go along with the others now?
Age: 29
City: Edmonton
State: Alberta

Unfortunately, I just don’t trust people who say things like the “only” people who contact them are such and such looking for so and so, despite how “clear” they are about what they want.

I think we need some examples of how you’re “pretty clear” about wanting a relationship in your profile. If you’re making statements like, “Not looking to be a booty call!” or other such declarations, well, that’s why you’re hearing from so many men who “just want sex.” Remember what I said about keywords. People who cruise these sites looking for no strings sexual encounters are going to search for profiles that include words like casual, fwb, sex, nsa, no strings, etc. If you have any such words in your profile, take them out.

The people who genuinely are “just” looking it get laid aren’t even bothering to read your profile. They are spamming women with messages in the hopes something will stick. There is no way to stop hearing from these men. None. You have to build a tolerance for that.

I think reason you got more attention before is two fold. First, you were younger. Let’s face it, age can often trump extra weight/bad behavior…for awhile. Second, and this one is a little more unseemly, your weight made you a target. Guys thought you were more forgiving.

Again I’m going to refer to this post over at XOJane.

The author insists that, because she gets attention from men, that her body type/weight isn’t universally unattractive. The problem with that, as we’ve said before, is that attraction is often secondary when it comes to seeking sex.  Men and women both have the ability to get past the lack of intense physical desire if the goal is to get off. Basing your perception of yourself and your attractiveness upon insincere  attention you receive is where you can get into trouble. The otherspeed bump is ignoring the possibility that our weight/body type is more appealing to people of certain ethnicities other than the one we predominantly date. You can’t take that attention and assume that their race or cultural experience doesn’t play a part. The woman from this article is choosing to believe what she wants – including the feedback from her friends that her weight isn’t an issue – than accepting her reality.

No, you shouldn’t post a pic of yourself when you were heavier to your profile. People will assume that that is what you look like now. Not only that but, what’s the point? Why would you want to highlight the fact that you used to be 50 pounds heavier? We’d all need to see these older photos to better answer this question. Maybe you were posed in such a way that your extra weight wasn’t as obvious. I can’t trouble shoot a scenario like this without evidence or actual data. But then, that’s the point, I guess. I’m not sure you want an answer as much as you want an opinion/experience validated.

You seem bothered that you’re not getting the amount of responses you used to get. I understand. But I’d guess the majority of people who were emailing you before weren’t genuinely interested in you in the first place. If you want more emails, post a great shot of your cleavage. If you want to find something substantive that could possible turn into something, then except that a handful of messages a week is the standard.

People really need to accept the fact that, when it comes to online dating, we don’t have the amount of options that we think. Everybody is so thrown when nobody replies to their messages or they don’t get any emails. Hello? Is this thing on? That’s online dating for pretty much everybody. It’s a crap shoot, one that requires effort and patience and self-awareness. Forget those stories you’ve heard about all the people you know who have met online and gotten married. They are not the rule. They are exceptions to the rule. To meet them it’s going to take more than a handful of dates or a few months on a dating site. The only people trying to convince you otherwise are the online dating companies themselves along with dating coaches who are probably being compensated to promote these so-called “facts.” These sites and experts chirp about studies and research and then create pretty info-graphics and blast them out to bloggers and encourage us to post them. Trust me. I’d bet the majority of people these sites poll are not the people you’re trying to meet.

It would also serve the general dating population well to dispel themselves of the notion that they are somehow doing somebody a favor by overlooking certain “flaws.”  . No, you’re not meeting them out of curiosity. No, you’re not giving them the what for because you want to school them in etiquette. You’re pissed because you convinced yourself that that Mr./Ms.McDreamy was more into you than you were into them and it turned out they weren’t.

I am sorry to put it this way, but dating now requires that people have low expectations. If you want to be a grammar expert or spend your days sifting through profiles that make your heart beat faster, have at it.  You will undoubtedly find excellent reasons to stay single. The rest of us will be going out with people who don’t use semi-colons correctly or don’t look like our imaginary celebrity boyfriends/girlfriends.

 

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Weight, Dating 2.0, Dating is Fun, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

How Do You Know If a Guy Is Really Sincere?

February 15, 2013 by 18 Comments

Name: Marie
Age: 45
State: Florida
Question: ok, so I met this wonderful man. His eye contact and body language all showed me he was sincere in everything he talked about. He seems so caring, loving, giving, just the right guy for me all around. My question is he asked me if I would like to go out of town for a few days? We had one date and talked and texted a lot the past few days. Normally I would so no way…I do not even know this man… but I know some people will meet each other for the first time out of town and spend a weekend together. I feel comfortable but am I jumping too fast and possibly putting myself in harms way? I don’t feel like it, but family have told me he could be a bad person and I should not do it. I have dated many men and he is the first real genuine nice and good man I have met where I saw these traits right away… Any thoughts? Thank you !

 

For me, there are two issues here. The first is how blown away you are by this guy based his non-verbal cues. While I am a big believer in the importance of reading body language and paying attention to various cues, none of those things actually prove anything.  In fact, I think there are a lot of men and women out there who know exactly how to present themselves so that they seem more sincere and convincing. We all learn how to navigate situations in a way to get what we want. It’s not difficult to learn these things. Since you don’t know this guy really at all, you don’t have a baseline that can be used for comparison purposes.

Should you take him up on his offer to go away for a weekend? I really don’t know. Yesterday, in the comments of another thread, the issue of whether or not someone would accept a 2nd date on Valentine’s Day came up. A couple of people insisted that they would not do that. Much like the “I’ll only go down on  woman if she freshly showered and shaved” admission, I find such declarations to be a tell. As I said in response to a tweet yesterday asking who accepts a first date on Valentine’s Day, someone who would is someone who doesn’t over-analyze everything. People who swear up and down that they would “never” do certain things like that are actually revealing that they’ve probably never been presented with the opportunity to do so or have their own issues that would prevent them from being so daring. If you met someone you really liked and they asked you for a first or second date on Valentine’s Day, most people would go. Please. The people who say that it’s too much pressure, might set false expectations, etc are making excuses. If you really liked them, you’d go.

Same goes for this request of taking a trip with this guy. People are going to give you all kinds of reasons that you shouldn’t. Personally, I’m not sure that it’s the best of ideas. Traveling with someone – anyone – can be stressful. I’m not sure that you and this man have established the kind of rapport necessary for you to go into this relatively confident that you and he will not have any problems. As for the security concern, that’s valid too. I think it’s unlikely that he’ll chop your hands off and stick you in a freezer, but it’s still something you should consider. Just like people should consider meeting people from online dating sites in a public place for the first date. Caution is good. Just don’t let it rule you.

You say that this is the first guy that you’ve met who has shown you all these traits right away. That, for me, is the big red flag. What does it tell you that “all” the other men you’ve met have not acted this way? It tells me that either you have not so great judgment in men (as witnessed in this post) OR that this guy is being insincere. The fact that these experiences you have seem to fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum is what concerns me.   You seem rather hungry for a genuine connection. I think that might be clouding your judgment.

I think you might be so used to dealing with guys who are unavailable that you jump at the first guy who is available. Neither is really all that smart. I’d want to know why this guy was so eager and available. Look, I’m the bee’s knees. But even I would immediately be suspect of someone who seemed this interested, this quickly. I’d want to know why he was so available. That would be the reason why I would hold off on that trip for now. I think you need to get to know this guy a bit and get a baseline read on him before you make snap judgments.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Date Sex, First Impressions, Game, PUA, Red Flags Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Dealing With The Passive Aggressive Email Dater

February 13, 2013 by 36 Comments

 

When is it okay to say something about how long it takes for a guy to respond to a text or email? I’ve been out with the guy in question twice. He sometimes takes a whole day (as in 24 hrs) to reply to emails. – Georgia, 38, NYC

 

I’d need a little more to go on here. In general, I find a long lapse in response to an email to be a not so good sign. There’s just no excuse for someone to not be able to reply to a message within a few hours at least. I can’t stand when people say that they’re “so busy!” and that’s why they haven’t sent a response. Orly? That busy? Wow. You’re so important! I’ll just sit here eagerly awaiting your response while you carve out the 38 seconds it would take to write a reply.

There’s usually an underlying message to the lack of a message. They’re trying to tell you something without telling you while probably trying to maintain their image as a “good person.” They’re hoping you get the hint and go away quietly.

Passive aggression. I hate it. I hate it more than I hate Facebook status updates about what someone had for lunch.

The most frustrating part of being on the receiving end of that behavior is that if you speak up and say anything, it just gets worse. You become the “crazy” one. You’re not sympathetic to their situation. You’re selfish.

The lapse in response time and disappearing during a conversation is done to create a sense of urgency and incite confusion and insecurity. It’s often a power play, and it’s really, really destructive to someone’s self-esteem. It’s especially unhealthy if, like me, you’re confrontational. I only had to be involved with one passive aggressive guy to learn very quickly that a relationship with someone like that will not end well for me. It just becomes this ongoing pissing contest.

The true sign of passive aggression is that when a person is called on it they will respond with something particularly hurtful. The goal in such cases is to subdue you. You’re on to them, they know it, and now they feel trapped. Ignore whatever it is that they say. Remember, it’s said with the intention of slicing your psychological Achilles heel. They’ll identify your weakness and exploit it to your advantage. Especially if you’ve constructed a well informed argument. That’s why I hate to see you or anybody else put yourself in a vulnerable position so early in the game. Some things men and women just have to suck up for a bit until there’s a genuine comfort level.

My honest advice to you is to stop contacting this guy all together. By not replying in a timely fashion, he’s telling you where you fall on the priority list. That’s not to imply that you should be high a top the list after two dates. That’s an unreasonable expectation. However, if he was genuinely interested in keeping you around in some way he’d at least do I what I refer to as “investing.” Investing can take many forms. It can be the weekly text from someone you met online, sent “just to say hi”, but never leads to setting up an actual date. It can be a few word response to an email you sent. Investing involves making the bare minimum of effort just to maintain a line of communication and contact.

At best, I would think this guy is moderately interested. I’d suggest sitting back and waiting to see if he follows up with you at some point. In the interim, hop online or go out and meet other people.

 

 

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating is Fun, Dating The Crazy, Servicey!, Social Rules of Dating, Texting Tagged With: , , , , , , , ,

Can Someone Be The One After One Date?

February 11, 2013 by 26 Comments

Name: Denny Laine
Age: 44
State: New York City
Question: I have a minor question regarding our favorite holiday: Valentine’s Day. I had a great first date last week with someone I met online. She could possibly be “the one” for me. We hit it off on the phone, hit it off in person, and since then we’ve been constantly texting and e-mailing. We made plans to see each other again on Wednesday. I had suggested hanging out Thursday not realizing it was Valentine’s Day. She said Wednesday would be better for her so we agreed. I realize that flowers and love letters and being Valentine’s might be too soon after just one date. But at the same time I want to somehow acknowledge it, that VD is the next day because there’s a good chance we can become a long term couple. I have some ideas. Or should I just let it pass and wait for next year? Any thoughts from anyone?

 

Ok. You need to slow down, Captain. First, let’s revisit your history a little, shall we?

This question was submitted by you:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2011/10/26/is-he-too-nice-thats-why-he-cant-get-a-2nd-date/

And this one:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2013/01/12/how-to-tell-if-theyre-a-dating-liability/

And this one:

http://andthatswhyyouresingle.com/2011/09/28/guest-post-cock-blocked/

And here is a recent comment from you from last month.

Denny, you have only had one date with this woman. It seems like you get ridiculously invested with every woman with whom you have a decent first date. If you asked this woman to get together on Thursday aka Valentine’s Day and she said Wednesday works better, she’s telling you she feels it would be weird for you two to have your second date on Valentine’s Day. Which, sorry to say, is not  a good sign. She’s turning down the opportunity to tell people she has a date on Valentine’s Day. Many women live for that shit. So you have to ask yourself why she doesn’t want to get together on Thursday.She either is not on the same page as you or has another date. Neither of which bode well for you. These are the things you need to learn to deduce so that you can gauge where you stand and appropriate expectations.

It’s hard to navigate a situation like this. You don’t want to come off too detached or disinterested, but you also don’t want to give the impression that you might skin a woman and wear her as a suit. Right now, you’re tip toeing in skin her and wear her as a suit territory. You’re already considering V-Day 2014. Sorry, but that’s a little scary.

If she wanted you to acknowledge the upcoming holiday, she’d have accepted the V-Day date. I’m sorry to say this so bluntly (no I’m not) but I’m guessing she’s not as into you as you think. If you push the V-Day idea, this woman will back off. I’m going to speculate that you’re coming on too strong and it’s making her uncomfortable. I’m also going to throw out there that you do this a lot, which is why you have such trouble keeping a woman around. I have told you before that I feel you come off weak and needy. Those are two things that will automatically get you friend zoned and blown off. You need to learn how not to get so attached and invested so quickly. It’s not healthy.

You’ve been out with this person ONCE. You have NO IDEA if there is any substantive long term potential. I think you’re so used to being blown off early that you haven’t had enough experience with the early dating process. What you need to do is detach a bit. Go back online and find someone else and start engaging them. Do anything you can to distract you from thinking about this woman if only to temper what has to be perceived by women as too interested. Do not acknowledge Valentine’s Day in any way other than maybe in passing via a text conversation that day. But don’t start that conversation off with “Happy V-Day!” You’ll send her a text the morning after your date and say, “Hey, had fun last night. How about we meet up on Xday for whatever.” She will either reply and say yes or no. If she says yes, then make plans. Then and only them, as you’re signing off, wish her a Happy Valentine’s Day.  You can’t make a big deal of this. You just can’t. If she acts all schmoopy woopy with you on that second date, then maybe you can send her a cute e-card the next day. But that’s it. You should not be spending any money on this or making it into a production.

Denny, the pattern here with you is clear. You get too invested and likely give off a really off putting vibe. You have to become more self-aware and pay more attention to what I can only assume a glaring red flags of moderate interest from these women. You’re pinning all your hopes on every single woman who shows interest. I realize how great it feels to feel like someone is out there thinking about you or that you some how matter to someone. That can be intoxicating, especially if you go a long time without it. But you have to understand that things that are said and done in those early stages are either disingenuous or done without any real thought. People can get caught up, or they like the attention or they’re just otherwise insensitive and thoughtless.

It all means nothing until it means something. Please try to remember that.

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Realities, Dating Skills Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

At Some Point We’re All Undateable To Someone

February 8, 2013 by 22 Comments

Name: lovelost
Age: 29
State:
Question: I’ve had genital herpes (HSV-2) for two years. I’ve tried online hsv dating with no luck but I have dated 3 guys that I knew from the real world. All three of these guys openly pursued me, not the other way around. I told all three as soon as it was clear that we were thinking of getting intimate and all three were willing to give the relationship a try anyways, but I chickened out.

The problem is that I’m terrified of giving it to someone and then later feeling like they aren’t the one and wanting to break up with them. I just wasn’t sure enough that I really liked them, so it didn’t go anywhere.

When I do meet someone I really like I feel like it would be unfair to flirt with them or ask them out. It feels more misleading and dishonest then if the guy was trying to pursue me.

Is this a reasonable fear or should I try and get over it and get my flirt on?
How do you go about dating in the general fish pool?

 

I admire your desire to be responsible. I do. But if these men say that they don’t care about your HSV status, then let them take on the responsibility. It’s not up to you. As long as your upfront about your status and take all prescribed meds and practice safe sex, you’ve done your part.

You also need to stop walking around like you have a Scarlet H sewn to your blouse. You have genital herpes, not the Bubonic Plague. You are not in some teeny tiny minority. Will it make things a tad bit more difficult for you? Yes. But guess what? Pretty much everybody has their own Scarlet H. This person is unemployed, this person is a little overweight, this person writes a dating column. Most of us have something that makes it impossible for us to date whomever we want. You are not alone in that.

Will their people who reject you? Yeah. But you know what? You’ll end up screening out a lot of the people just looking for sex. A friend and I were having this conversation last night about what our lines where in regards to STDs. If I met someone that I truly cared about and liked, and he told me he had genital warts, I would at the very least listen to him and do my research. If he’s knowledgeable and can answer my questions, then I’d date him. Would I casually hook up with someone with genital herpes? No. Just being honest. I’ve managed to go my whole life without an STD, and I’m not going to take on that risk just for sex. That’s reckless.

You’re going to hear a lot of fear-mongering from people who will try to label you as “bad.” But again, guess what? Divorced people get labeled as “bad.” People with bad credit get labeled as “bad.” There are always going to be people out there who live in their little bubbles and follow all the rules and cast aspersions on everybody else. Meanwhile, they’re either alone or in miserable relationships. “I would never lie about my age in my dating profile. That’s just wrong!” Translation: I have little success at dating, but at least I’m doing it the right away unlike all those other people.” Congrats. Have fun on that Island of Self-Righteousness.

You need to stop feeling so guilty. That’s the first thing you need to do. That and get rid of this shame you carry around with you.Okay. You got a bum rap and contracted an STD. You didn’t beat a family to death with a sack of puppies. You are not obligated to reveal your status to people just so they don’t waste their time. Like I said the other day, if someone considers a handful of dates to be a waste of their time or gets super invested after a couple of conversations and dates, they have bigger issues to contend with.

 **Edited to change “with an STD” to “without.” I do not have an STD.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Communicating, Dating & STDs, Dating is Fun, Dating Myths, Dating Realities, Dating Skills Tagged With: , , , , , , , ,

Moxie 101: There’s No Such Thing As Having Sex Too Soon

February 4, 2013 by 13 Comments

Name: Marie
Age: 45
State: Florida
Question: I went out on a first date and really connected to this guy. I broke all my rules…I drank too much, slept with him (letting the wild girl come out-which I have never done). He only texted me a few times and called once. He said he wants to get together again but working a lot. After almost 3 weeks I had a drink and sexted him!! He did not sex back except to say he is getting horny and will see me soon. I am embarrassed. If I was dating me I would say yikes..she is too wild and only wants sex. I am not normally like this, so should I apologize and explain who I normally am ( a good, caring, mature, responsible, not party animal kinda of girl) or do I just stop texting and if he does text or call just not defend myself?

Photo Credit – roblang.photoshelter.com

 

If I was dating me I would say yikes..she is too wild and only wants sex.

That’s because you’re a woman. A guy wouldn’t find your desire to have sex a bad thing. You’re thinking like a woman. The fact that you care what he thinks means you’re not just in it for the sex. You made a decision and now you’re all in your head because you’ve been trained to believe that women who have sex too soon are slutty and bad and blah blah blah . He’s not not seeing you because you were so “wild” in bed.He’s not seeing you because he has options. Either that or he was never terribly interested in the first place and took the sex you offered him.

I went out on a first date and really connected to this guy.

That was your first mistake. Had you and this guy genuinely connected, you wouldn’t have needed to sext him. He isn’t treating you like a booty call option because you had omigod “wild” sex with him.  You didn’t disrupt true love’s design and now it’s going to come to get you like some rom com version of Final Destination. That connection was in your head. That you’re still believing that you and this guy had a connection is the real problem. The only time you should be having sex with a guy on the first, second, third whatever date is if you’re perfectly okay with the possibility that you might never get anything more than that from him. The sex should never be used to as a bartering chip. That’s not to say that you won’t ever get more than sex. You just can’t use sex for anything other than personal pleasure if you wish to avoid what it is that you’re feeling right now.

Women like to imagine that there was some magical connection between themselves and a guy so they can justify doing exactly what you did. You wanted to have sex. That’s it. That’s why you’re remembering that date the way you are. It’s selective recall. You are embarrassed at what you did and are now choosing to see that date as something that it wasn’t.

The real question is…why did you want to have sex? Was it because you were horny and you like sex? Ehh…I’m guessing no. More likely, you thought showing him how “wild” you were in bed was going to make him like you more and keep you interested. If you just wanted to have sex you wouldn’t care a whit what he was thinking about you or whether he was judging you. That’s what sexual empowerment is all about: making a choice, owning it and never apologizing for it. Don’t you dare send that guy a text and explain yourself. You don’t owe him or anybody else an explanation or apology. Not only that but doing that will make you way too vulnerable. If he wasn’t using you before, he sure as hell will once you back pedal on your decision to have sex with him. Never let a man or woman know they’ve got you on the ropes.

 After almost 3 weeks I had a drink and sexted him!!

And? You didn’t beat a school bus full of kids with a sack of puppies. The only thing you did wrong was try to use the promise of sex to get attention from a man. That’s what makes what you did awkward. That just doesn’t work. Sure, you might get a response, but more often than not the guy sees that bone that you’re offering as a trap. Most men know that when a woman offers sex, and just sex, there’s usually some strings attached. That’s why many men don’t take that bait.

I’ve explained this before…despite what your friends might tell you, men like slutty women. Slutty is okay. Men date slutty women. Men marry slutty women. But there’s slutty and then there’s…slutty. The former is a woman who likes sex and has it when she wants without giving much care for what the man or her friends or society might think if they knew. That’s the key. If they knew. The latter type of slutty are the women who broadcast or otherwise use their sexuality to get attention or validation.  Those women are liabilities. They’re usually insecure or damaged in some way and use sex to fill a void.

Leave it alone. This situation isn’t right for you. You’re way too in your head and second guessing yourself. It won’t end well. He’s clearly not terribly interested in you, so just file that one away and learn from the experience. Do not do what so many women do and tell yourself that you somehow screwed up your chance at finding a boyfriend. The sex had nothing to do with it. He was never going to be your boyfriend.

 

 

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Filed Under: casual sex, Date Like a Man, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Lies, Dating Myths, Last Night's Column, Moxie 101, Moxie Rant, Sex, Sexting Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Beware The Man Who Was Burned By His Ex

January 30, 2013 by 35 Comments

Name: Peter
Age: 28
State:
Question: The last post in regards to single vs divorced is the impetus for this letter.  I am currently separated from my wife and required to live apart for 1 full year before filing for divorce in my state with 6 months down and 6 more to go.

I have listed myself as divorced on my online profiles versus separated as there is zero chance of reconciliation, although I remain legally married.  We have a separation agreement, so our assets are settled and all that is left is a court date in 6 months to tell the judge we’re done.

My problem is that being 20-something and divorced carries a stigma.  I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage.  I told her to cancel the ticket and move out or she could fly out to see the guy with the expectation of me not being here when she got back, so she moved out and cancelled the ticket last minute, keeping her options open.  A month later, she asked for a divorce, rebooked her plane ticket, and ended up moving in with the guy several states away just a few weeks later.  I found her journal on the computer when I was sorting through backup files and figuring out what files I needed to get back to her and found out before we got married she cheated on ex-boyfriends, tried to break up engaged couples, and basically fell in love with every man she ever met and manipulated them for her personal gain.  It turned out everything was an elaborate front and the woman I married never existed.

The bottom line is I was a victim in my marriage/divorce.  Before I found out she wasn’t the person she claimed to be, I told my ex-wife I’d quit my job, quit grad school, go to counseling, and do whatever else it took to save our marriage, but it was all for nothing if she wasn’t willing to put forth the effort since I couldn’t save our marriage on my own.  She told me not to do any of the above and gave up on me, which in hindsight was a good thing after finding her journal.

I live in the Bible Belt/South and the type of women I want to attract are those with strong values as my ex-wife turned out to not have any values at all.  This typically means a woman who is religious or politically conservative (of which my ex-wife was neither), which I have no problem with, but I carry the divorced stigma and get judged negatively despite the fact I was willing to give up everything to make my marriage work.  My parents are divorced and a “family history of divorce” seems to also be a red flag with  women also.

Beyond the divorce stigma, I’m a catch: I’m good looking, work out regularly, earn six figures, own a house, finish grad school in May, and I’m obviously not afraid of monogamy or commitment.  I realize that everyone my age has baggage and the key difference is how people have managed their baggage.  The only thing scarier than a man with a past is a man with no past. I don’t want to tick the box as never married and be deceptive and I don’t think it is appropriate to go into divorce details on a dating profile, but it sure would be nice if the women who weren’t emailing me back because I ticked the divorce box knew the reasons behind it without sounding like a vindictive crazy man.  If I would have had a church wedding, I’d have grounds for an annulment and would have never been married in the eyes of a church and could claim never married with an asterisk. What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

 

Here’s my question:

Do you want to date or do you want to bitch? Because it sounds like you just want to bitch. I’m not sure you should be dating at all at this juncture because you’re clearly not any where near past what your ex-wife did. This wasn’t really a letter seeking advice. You just wanted to vent. Which, I’ll tell you now, is unattractive. It’s unattractive in women and it’s unattractive in men. I understand that what she did was selfish, thoughtless and hurtful. I do and I’m sorry. But this woman didn’t become a shrew overnight. Nor did she hide it, as so many people like to say happens when they wake up one day and realize they dated an asshole. These people aren’t the cunning and calculated sociopaths we like to tell people they are. We refer to them as such because that’s a much easier pill to swallow than admit we were just blind or needy or lonely or desperate. And because it removes all responsibility from us for why we chose them.  She always was who she was. You just chose to ignore it.

Sweetheart, you’re wife picked you for a reason. Yep. She carried on affairs and manipulated you behind your back. Do you know why? Because she knew you’d either never catch on or you’d ignore it and let her do what she wanted because you feared losing her.

I was married 5 years and my wife ended up buying a plane ticket to see another man and asked me for an open marriage. 

Do you understand that by doing this she was telling you she couldn’t have cared less how you felt? No matter what you said, she was going to do what she wanted to do. I guess what I’m wondering is how you fell for this girl in the first place.  You need to figure out why you married this woman or else you’re doomed to repeat this mistake.

As for the rest of your letter, TL/DR. I mean, I read it. You’re so stuck in victim mode that it was struggle to get through it. I’m guessing that this is just who you are: a professional victim. You’re whining about stigmas and your selfish ex-wife and society. People who adopt a victim mentality tend to get victimized. That’s how it works.

What’s a guy to do to improve his odds without being a big fat liar liar pants on fire?

Well, the first thing they do is to swear never to say “liar liar pants on fire” again.  This isn’t about online dating and being divorced with an asterisk. What can you do? You can stop feeling sorry for yourself, take responsibility for choosing poorly, find out why you were attracted to your ex-wife and fix the problem. There you go. Boom goes the dynamite.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Beware, Break Ups, Cheating, Closure, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating Advice, Dating After Divorce, Dating is Fun, Dating Lies, Dating Myths Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,

Single, Separated, Divorced: How Honest Should You Be?

January 29, 2013 by 30 Comments

This Frisky article might spark some interesting discussion. Once again, I left a comment and it’s being moderated. I’m starting to think it’s personal. :) From the article:

Finding out that “single” signifier on his online dating profile actually should have read “divorced” has happened to me a grand total of FIVE times. I shit you not! Yes, all the guys listed themselves as “single” online, but mentioned their divorces at some point on the first date during the whole “this is my whole resume and life recap” bit. One guy referred to an ex as his “ex-girlfriend” first before letting it slip that they had been married. 

Personally, I don’t care how they present it initially. As long as they are available and not breaking laws or vows/commitments, I don’t care. I totally get why some people (because women do this too) are hesitant to reveal that they are divorced. This Frisky article, to me, has an underlying tone of judgment. Divorced = baggage/bad. Men and Women both know that people will make assumptions about them if they reveal that they are divorced.

“Oh God. Crazy Ex-Wife/Husband alert!”

“He doesn’t have any money because he got screwed in a divorce!”

“Oh, she lives off alimony. Gold digger!”

That’s why some people aren’t upfront about it. As I’ve said before, people who expect total honesty and full disclosure this soon reveal their own inexperience and issues.

I agree that Single, Separated but Single and Divorced are three totally different things. Divorced and Single, to me, are the same thing. I’d want to know sooner than later, but I wouldn’t automatically assume he was being shady if he told me later.  I’d wonder why he felt uncomfortable revealing this info. That would be my first question to him.

I do agree that someone should be upfront in their profile about just being separated. I’d prefer to know that before I decided to meet them. I still might meet them, though. These situations are rarely cut and dry. Someone could be legally separated but no immediate plans to get divorced for financial reasons. Is that an ideal situation? No. But if the guy comes clean and explains it in a way that doesn’t set off any buzzers, I’d be willing to give it a go.

And an honorable mention goes to O’Ex-Boyfriend who dated me exclusively for two whole months before he let it drop that he wasn’t actually legally divorced yet, only separated. Oh, did you just happen to forget to mention it?!?

If a man you’re dating “exclusively” reveals that he actually lied or intentionally mislead you about his marriage/separation status, guess what that means? It means he was never committed to you and that “exclusivity’ was just a weak promise to sleep with only you “for now” or because you pressured him into committing. It’s not the lie itself that bothers us. It’s the implications/motivations behind the lies and revelations that freak us out.

I once went out with a guy from OK Cupid. On his profile he states that he is single. He didn’t fill out the offspring option and left it blank. He also didn’t reveal in what field he worked.  He encouraged women to read his questions. He answered the question about whether or not he wanted to have kids by checking off No. He qualified that by saying that more kids were not in the cards for him.

But here’s the funny part. He was divorced (which he offered in an email conversation) and has 2 kids and works in a field that didn’t appear relevant or connected to things he admitted in his profile. Yet, despite being secretive and almost intentionally misleading about these points, he discloses in his profile that he wants to meet women who don’t mind that he’s already dating other women. Interesting thing to choose to reveal, no? He’ll be honest about that, yet not forthcoming about things as simple as what he does for a living.  I showed my friend his profile before I met him. He laughed out loud at the line about already dating other women.

“That’s like if I sat here talking to you and, out of nowhere, just poked you in the eye. It’s rude and unnecessary.”

“Maybe he just doesn’t want to date women looking for anything serious or exclusive? That’s why I responded to him.”

This particular friend is my Yoda, Robin Williams in Dead Poet’s Society and Hannibal Lechter all rolled into one. I half-expected him to look over his glasses at me and say, “Noooo…that’s incidental.”

“No. It’s just rude. It’s meant to be shocking.. Ask yourself why someone would do that.”

I went into that particular date far more alert after that conversation.

Back to the article. The piece also suggested that people should reveal their STD status in their profile.

Ami and I disagree on this one. She doesn’t think that going on a date with someone means there’s a presumption that sex will take place and that people should disclose once it’s clear sex is going to occur. Meanwhile, I say that you should at the very least obliquely indicate your STD status in some way prior to meeting a person for two reasons. One, so other people wirh similar STDs who may want to date someone who knows what they’re dealing with can find you, and two, so someone for whom an STD is a dealbreaker knows whether to to invest the time.

This just in: most first dates go absolutely nowhere. Why should someone make themselves that vulnerable that soon? It’s like the author of this piece doesn’t even take into account how being public about something like that could compromise other aspects of his life.I also find it really…inconsistent…that someone like this particular author who is constantly talking about sex-positivity would write something that makes it clear that she considers an STD a deal breaker.

It’s not up to a virtual stranger to help you manage your expectations and personal biases. Dating involves investing time and money and accepting that there may be very little return on each investment. If you consider investing time in ONE DATE to be a challenge, then it’s really no secret why you struggle to find someone to date regularly.

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Filed Under: Article Roundup, Awkward, Dating & STDs, Dating After Divorce, Dating is Fun, Dating Lies, Dating Myths, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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