How To Tell If They’re a Dating Liability

Name: Denny Laine
Age: 44
State: New York City
Question: I recently started talking with an OKcupid woman who I’ve been e-mailing with for a  week. Things were going great and we finally made an appointment to meet. Before hanging up though she said “Just to let you know, I just got out of a 10 year relationship.” I didn’t know what to say but “OK.”   I didn’t know what to make of that.  What did that have anything to do with me? With us? Shouldn’t we start out fresh when meeting possible mates? Should I admire her for having a relationship last that long? Or should I question her for ending a relationship that lasted a long time? Do I give myself 10 years with her to see if we would make a different kind of couple?  When I meet someone, I like to think we’re starting out fresh. I would answer any question they may have from “how long was your longest relationship?” to “why do you think it failed?” I would answer absolutely anything and everything and be totally honest. I understand it’s not about me, that she’s just trying to get a picture of what WE would be like in the future.  But I wouldn’t saddle anyone with something like that when first meeting them. Was that supposed to be a warning to me, a total stranger looking to see her in good faith, starting out fresh? Any thoughts?
Age: 44
State: New York City

Wow. Okay. First, slow down. You haven’t even met this woman an already you’re thinking in terms of “we.” You are over-thinking this, which is almost certain to lead to you psyching yourself out.

She told you about her break-up for two reasons:

1. Because she’s probably a bit of a mess and didn’t know not to say that.

2. To warn you that she’s a bit of a mess and that you shouldn’t get your hopes up.

Her lack of self-awareness will inevitably cause problems down the road.

Personally, someone like this would present a degree of difficulty that does not interest me. I’d bail.

I would answer any question they may have from “how long was your longest relationship?” to “why do you think it failed?” I would answer absolutely anything and everything and be totally honest.

You’ve written several letters to me complaining that you can’t seem to find a girlfriend and that women think you’re “too nice.” This is why. You have to understand that when women ask you these kinds of questions there’s a reason and it’s not just curiosity. They want to find things out about you to eventually use against you in some way. Women ask men these questions in an attempt to exert power over them. They’re trying to establish just how far they can push him. If you answer these questions in any kind of detail, you risk looking weak. That is what “too nice” actually means.

I understand it’s not about me, that she’s just trying to get a picture of what WE would be like in the future.  But I wouldn’t saddle anyone with something like that when first meeting them.

That’s where you’re wrong. You do not factor into why she revealed this bit of information. You’re right. Nobody should ever saddle a prospective date with something that personal. It’s inappropriate. She lacks the social skills needed to know that. That’s what makes her a liability. A ten year relationship? Did they ever marry? Were they engaged? The potential bad judgment surrounding that scenario abounds. My guess is that she’s not looking for a relationship. She’s just looking to get back on the horse and have dates so she can feel more attractive. Same goes for men who offer such revelations. Except they’re also looking to get laid, since that’s what truly convinces a man that a woman finds him attractive.

This is why people should skip all the chit chat and decrease the amount of communicating they do before actually meeting someone in person. Inevitably someone says something stupid or inappropriate. You have to remember that everything you say is being put under a microscope. That’s why you should avoid discussing, among other things,  dating/relationship history. That topic is a minefield and gives people far too much ammunition. The whole subject should be avoided until the two people have established a level of trust and intimacy. Let them get a first hand sense of who you are in a relationship before you tell them about who you were in other relationships.

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A Crash Course in Dating Red Flags

Since we’re on a bit of a Red flag Roll, here’s another blog post I read this morning that is FULL of them. Single Dating Diva has been gracious enough to let me deconstruct it. She’s not going to curl up in the fetal position and cry in the corner and run to twitter and tell everyone about her omigod “haters” and lock up her tweets. She’s got guts, so let’s keep that in mind when we’re commenting.

Okay. Read the story here first.

Ready? Okay.

So my “friend” and I have been friends for a while.  We met as colleagues but he was in the land of far far away and I was here in Canada.

Now, I’m going to take this to mean that they never actually met. SDD has confirmed this. By the time this all went down, they had known each other via work for a little over a year. The “romantic” development began the spring of this year.

We have been through various ups and downs together, as friends.  We’ve been there for each other through some of our hardest challenges.  This brought us closer together and created a very trusting and loving relationship….  It was great, since we had the solid friendship base it was an easy transition into romance.  There was love there already.

As we discussed yesterday, many women have a tendency to idealize relationships and dynamics. Their FWBs are “good friends” who “respect and care for them.” Reality? They’re just guy who don’t treat them poorly.  There’s no tangible or hard evidence proving this alleged loyalty and respect. It’s all in the woman’s mind. That’s especially easy to do when you have no first hand, in person experience dealing with someone. So, while SDD believes that they have been through ups and downs, she doesn’t know him well enough to have a baseline of his behavior. Establishing that takes time. It also takes face to face interaction. A lot of it. This bond that she and this friend of hers developed likely didn’t actually exist to the depths she believes it did.

We also decided not to mention it to any of our other colleagues so as to not create a weird situation in case it didn’t work out.  Actually, I didn’t really mind telling people, but he was adamant we didn’t.

Bam. There’s the first real red flag. Why was he “adamant” that she not tell anyone?

All was great and, he being the type to “shout it from the rooftops” that he was in love, he did.  But he didn’t mention any names.  He wrote publicly that he had met someone very special and only had eyes for her.  No one really asked who it was…I was asked by one of our colleagues and was forced by him to lie (sorry!).

And there’s the next red flag. So, he’s adamant that she not tell anyone, but he runs to Facebook and announces it? Inconsistency. Plus, the announcement was vague. No names. That’s convenient.  When men make public declarations like this, usually if not exclusively it is for the benefit of the woman he’s dating. Guys don’t typically get all mushy in public. In private? Sure. But not in public. If he does it in public it’s because he’s trying to prove something to the woman he’s dating or someone else.  Finally, nobody asked him who the lucky lass was. Know why? They probably already knew. Or they didn’t care, as this guy has a habit of falling in and out of love.

The reasons why a man will ask a woman to hide something are that he’s either very private, embarrassed by something about the relationship OR he’s being dishonest in some way. Since he ran to Facebook and announced this, the “very private” excuse doesn’t cut it.

He would call me his “missus”, he sent me love songs, talked about the future, even talked about buying furniture together for one of his homes.  So he booked his flight here to visit and when the day came for him to come he was so excited, sent me several text messages and then he had problems getting on the flight.  So he supposedly spent the entire weekend looking for a way to get here “because I was worth all the hardship and trouble” he said.  He wasn’t successful.

See, this sort of behavior feels really childish. Especially the effusive compliments. I’ll take Spring to mean May or June. So then they’ve basically been flirting for 3 months. Maybe 2. Somebody talking about buying furniture with you after dating 3 months, let alone”dating,” should raise that red flag. We don’t know exactly what was said. He could have made a joking reference to needing her help shopping for a couch. Who knows? In any case, 3 months of non-in person interaction is not nearly enough time to have such conversations. I don’t care what anybody says. When I hear these stories of people meeting over the internet and never meeting for a year but falling in love, I roll my eyes. Something is off about that. It might work, of course. But only because the two people are of the same emotional/social maturity level.

So he cancels this trip that he was super excited to take. Hmmm…red flag.  Then he evades her for the next few days. That, my friends, is when her internal warning system went off.

But instead of just dropping him and letting him show her if he was being genuine, SDD decided to “trap” him in his lies. Which, for future reference  ,is a giant waste of energy and time. This is something women do because it makes it seem like they are taking control of the situation. Except they’re not. They’re hoping against hope that they haven’t been duped.

The next day he sent me a message that someone very close to him was very ill and in the hospital.  So he couldn’t talk.   Each day that went by, I was more and more patient.  But he started speaking to me less and less.   Even responses to my emails were becoming a rare treat.    He said it was because he was spending all his time at the hospital with this person who was ill who the doctor’s gave a negative prognosis.  I tried to be loving and supportive and told him I would fly there to be with him even if that meant I was sitting in a hospital all day.  I didn’t care.  That’s what you do for your friends and those you love without thinking twice.

No. That’s what you do for someone you actually know because you’ve met them in person. This is how women get scammed online. They believe the unbelievable. We’ve all been there. I’ve been there.  When all the pieces fall together, it’s  a punch to the gut.

A few days after that, I was online and saw pictures of one of our other colleagues (who was even further away from him geographically than I was).  So I looked through the pictures and saw him in one of the pictures with her. Hmm, I thought, that’s strange, he was spending day and night at the hospital with this ill person.  So I sent him a message asking him if she was in the land of far far away and that I saw him with her.  His prompt reply was that she was there for “business” and promised he would take her for lunch and that I should “not panic”.

This is why I say that trying to “catch” someone in a lie is a waste of time. They’re just going to lie, and you’re going to believe them because you want to. If you were ready to not believe what they say, you’d have ditched them by now. That’s why you don’t ask leading questions. When you find yourself at that point, you just leave. She had photographic evidence that he was out and about at a time when he said he was stressed out by a sick loved one. Case closed.

The reveal? He was dating someone else who lived out of town. Shocker.

But a couple of days later, I woke up in the middle of the night and I felt the urge to go check the other woman’s account.  So I did.  Lo and behold pictures of them together doing various activities looking quite happy together.

Annnnd….scene.

Funny thing is that if he had been honest from the start with me we could have at the very least salvaged the friendship.

If SDD took anything from this situation, it should be that there was never a friendship to begin with.

 

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Beware The Hustler

Here’s an interesting story:

I met K. online earlier this year. I contacted him. He is an actor, 40 and “lived” in Brooklyn. We met once for drinks. Kiss good night at the end of the date and nothing more. He said he wanted to go out again and made tentative plans for the following weekend. I didn’t hear from him again after that and figured HJNTIM

A couple months later his profile popped up in my Activity feed. He had changed his location to Massachusetts. I did not contact him. A few months later I get an email from him through the website. His location had changed back to NYC. He never mentioned our date and neither did I. We made small talk and then he asked if I wanted to go out again. I said yes. We met for drinks a few nights later. He told me that he hadn’t been with a woman in a very long time because he was still getting over a break up from the year before. (?) He walked me home and asked to come upstairs with me. I said no because I had had a couple drinks and thought I would fall asleep. (That was the mostly truth.)  He stays in touch daily after that. He said he had to go home for a week but that he wanted to get together again when he got back. We make a date for the night after he gets back. A few hours before our date he emails me to tell me how excited he is to see me and how, if it was okay with me, he’d like to stay over.

I canceled the date.

Here’s why:

First off, the fact that he changed his location on his profile was odd. Changing it back a few months later was even more strange. I’ve said before that I don’t like dating transitional guys. Guys who are in between apartments, couch surfing, newly divorced/broken up, etc. To me, his living situation seemed too unstable. I still went out with him because I didn’t have the full story and figured I’d unravel the mystery eventually. As long as I wasn’t being asked to spend money on him or carry him in some capacity, I was okay with getting to know this guy.

Next was his sob story on the second date about how he hadn’t been with anyone in a while due to his past break up. Uh huh. As I said last week (and that post was partly inspired by this situation) someone who makes such a confession is either socially clueless or being strategic. Really? An above average looking guy of 40 living in NYC can’t get laid? Please. A comment like that is meant to lull the recipient into a false sense of security. Yes. I’m so sure that I’m different. Something about me makes this man want to peek his head out from under that shell and rejoin the word. Yeesh. How do women not smell that a mile away?

The third nail in the coffin was his request – before the date – to stay over. Now, I only  invite a man up to my apartment if both I plan on sleeping with him and feel comfortable with the possibility that he might stay over. Sorry, but to kick someone out after that is rude. If the guy wants to leave, that’s fine, but I would never ask someone to leave.

All along, my Spidey Senses were tingling about this guy. That growing hesitation was enough for me to pull the plug. I didn’t have to set any traps or Google stalk him. A little critical thinking goes a long way.

I replied to his email and told him that I didn’t feel comfortable having him stay over and wished him luck. He replied and said he was really looking forward to hanging out. I didn’t respond. No damage done.

My gut feeling was that this guy was more looking for a place to crash than anything else. I happen to know of a guy who does something similar, only he actually lives with his GF. He doesn’t pay rent, she takes him away with her on trips, usually pays his bar tabs, etc. He’s constantly crying poor though he recently started his own business. We recently gave me a sob story about how a client owed him a ton of money and that he had to go to a b-day party “where he couldn’t even afford to drink.” Um, stay home? It felt suspiciously like a request for a loan. I never replied to his email.

I don’t care how a guy supports himself. He just has to support himself. And, preferably, lives on his own if he’s over 30, but that is somewhat negotiable. I don’t care if he supports himself off an inheritance or investments or savings. Though I would prefer that he be doing something productive, even volunteering, with his time. It’s one thing to take some time off because you came into some money. I don’t think I could do that long term, for say more than a few months. I’d go crazy.

I could never date someone who wasn’t in some way pulling their weight or who was living off the hard work of other people.

Yet there are plenty of people who effortlessly and shamelessly do just that. The guy from my first story is likely cruising that website looking to cultivate a group of women to date so that, when he gets acting gigs in the city, he has a place to stay. My guess is he actually lives in Massachusetts and comes here for acting jobs. Swell. Get a shoebox apartment in East Harlem for $600, get a second job like every other actor on the planet, and pay your way.

People like this – and they come in both the male and female variety – are Hustlers. They basically leech off other people rather than pay their own way. They comprise a big part of the underbelly of dating in a big/expensive city that attracts dreamers and breeds spoiled rich kids.

Beware.

 

 

 

 

 

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