Red Flags Are Red Flags For a Reason

Name: NYCgirl
Comment: Hey guys, so I have a little dilemma with a guy I’ve been seeing. I met him back in July  after hanging out for a weekend with mutual friends we exchanged numbers  started talking via the phone. I went to friend request him on FB  as I was on his page I noticed he had a girlfriend listed. So I didnt say anything to him at first ( I didnt want to seem like a stalker or as if I was playing CIA spy). Being that its FB  he could of very well not updated his profile in some time I let it go. I told a friend of mine about what happened  she asked me to check his instagram page. I am not one for snooping around but I was curious to see if he indeed had a GF  maybe he was just trying to get into my pants.(I have been burned many times before so my guard is up at all times.) SO with the help of my friend we found his IG page  saw pictures of him  the same girl from FB posted from 2 weeks ago. Now I had already asked him if he was single  he told me yes. After finding all this out I decided to proceed with our first dinner date we had planned. I asked him again, over dinner, to his face, if he was single. “Yes I am” he replied. I kept him around for another week seeing if he would come clean after speaking everyday  he still claimed to be “single”. Finally I called him out on it. He claimed I was playing detective  had no idea what was going on.I never spoke to him after that. Later on I found out from a mutual friend that at the time he met me he was on a “break” w his current GF. They had got into a fight thursday night  he went out friday to “clear his mind”  thats when he met me. So now its December  thru the same mutual friends I see him at a party. He pulls me aside  apologizes to me saying he was sorry  blah blah Me being nice I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt  I decide to give him one more shot. We hit things off right away. He takes me to great restaurants, movies, etc. However I have caught him in a couple white lies that has me thinking. For example, he lied to me about when the last time he sold drugs was. ( He was an ex-dealer  claimed he last sold in 2008) when in fact it was in 2011. Then he lied to me about why he had lost his drivers license  didnt get a new one. We have been dating since December  we already went to Miami together in late January. I thought this was too soon but being that our mutual friends were going also I decided ok. (I would of not gone just me  him so soon) He also talks about marriage  kids  meeting his family  I think hes moving too fast. I sometimes feel like hes trying to “trap me”, I am 30 years old, a registered nurse , I have my own place  make my own money. Hes 28, lives at home  works for his fathers company, so the fact that he wanted to make me his gf after less than 2 months of dating I find a little weird. I would appreciate any input. Thank you!
Age: 30
City: NYC
State: NY

 

Hes 28, lives at home  works for his fathers company, so the fact that he wanted to make me his gf after less than 2 months of dating I find a little weird.

That’s what you find weird? That is probably the least concerning aspect of this story.

Here’s the narrative going on in your head:

You’re a woman who has had a lot of bad luck in love. You have your guard up, have  a hard time trusting men, etc. You are not the type of person to snoop or do any kind of unnecessary recon work on the men you meet. You’re a nice person which is why you give people who lie to you a second chance.

Here’s the reality:

You’re attracted to bad boys. Your guard isn’t up. You trust pretty easily, and usually trust the wrong person. Saying that your guard is up and citing all your past disappointments is supposed to make people feel sorry for you and sympathize for you rather than suggest you have really bad taste in men and are probably a little desperate.

Here’s my take on this:

This guy is a drug dealer with a criminal record. A record you found when you weren’t playing detective. He’s anxious to get out of his parent’s house, so he’s trying to get you all buttered up so you’ll take him in. You clearly don’t trust him and never have. Yet you continued to date him despite having caught him in numerous lies. You’re not concerned that he wasn’t to make you his girlfriend. You’re not unsettled by how quickly he appears to be moving. You’re unnerved because you know he has an agenda.

He accused you of playing Nancy Drew when you confronted him with a lie because he knew he was caught. Remember what I said a few weeks ago about paying attention to how someone reacts when you criticize them. If they turn it around on you, they know the accusation is true to some degree and are trying to change the subject and make their accuser feel insecure.

The only reason he profusely apologized that night at that party in December was because he knew he needed someone else to suck off of as he continued his shiftless life. Lucky for him that you’re so easily impressed.

I’m not sure what you’re looking for here. You admit you’ve caught him in multiple lies. You know his life isn’t terribly stable and that he has dabbled in illegal activities. You continued to date him despite all of this. So what is it that you want to hear? That he’s shady? You know that. It’s not that you think he’s moving too fast. It’s that you want to believe that it’s all real and don’t want to be played for a fool. Again. Oh wait. Again again.

He is trying to trap you. Walk away. Eventually this guy is going to sucker you into taking on the burden that is him. You have your own life, reputation, career and financial situation to consider. This guy will slowly begin to creep into all of these areas of your life and ruin them.

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Mystery vs. History

Last night’s episode of How I Met Your Mother inspired an interesting conversation between my friend and I. In this installment of the series, the main character, ted, had a first date with a woman he met at a bar. He immediately regretted telling his friends Robin and Barney because they are firm believers in the need to vet and Google all of Ted’s dates. The audience is then treated a series of flashbacks of Ted on a date and receiving a phone call from Barney or Robin with some sort of dark secret about Ted’s date. Of course, despite all of these “shady” revelations that include past obesity and criminal records, Ted sleeps with the women any way. Duh.

For this date with the woman at the bar, Ted makes Robin and Barney promise not to Google or Facebook stalk her. He then approaches his date and suggests that he and she have an “old fashioned’ date, where neither of them do any sort of Internet research on the other. She agrees. Which immediately makes Barney and Robin assume she’s hiding something.

Cut to the date and Ted and the woman both struggle to find things to talk about. Eventually they both admit to being nervous and conversation starts to flow easily.  Back at home, Barney and Robin are furiously scouring the web looking for information about Ted’s mystery date. Oh, they find something scandalous alright. Ted’s date was an Ivy League graduate who donated her liver to a stranger, inherited a billion dollar fortune and saved a drowning baby from a river. They text Ted a link to his date’s website. He struggles with whether or not to click. He does. He finds out about all of his dates accomplishments and becomes intimidated. He spends the rest of the date trying to measure up and compete with her. Now he has an image of her in his head based on a bunch of one dimensional articles. The date takes a bad turn, she leaves and Ted is sitting alone at the table knowing he blew a great date with an impressive woman.

I’ve mentioned before how I don’t Facebook friend, Twitter follow or Google any dates or men that I date. If they’re up to no good, I’ll sense it pretty quickly. The main reason I don’t do any of those things is that I want to build an impression of someone based on first hand experience, not a bunch of copy on a web site. People screw up and make mistakes. I find those things far more telling and interesting.

It’s hard to date in a time when we’re all so accessible. Depending on how much we share, we run the risk of people forming partial impressions of who we are. Take the example from last night’s post. The guy in that story had built up an idea of who I was because of this website. He made little effort to flesh out my particular character. The one dimensional image in his head was enough to prevent him from seeing me as a full person. Let’s say that you were really rich, famous or powerful. How would you feel if all your dates focused on your money and connections and made little effort to get to know you as a person? Exactly. It’s not fun. You start to wonder if they like you for you. Those quirks that he said he wasn’t sure he could get past were ones that he gleaned from reading posts, not talking directly to me. Once that image was in his head it was hard to get past it or convince him otherwise.

I’ve tapered back on the number of questions I ask dates. I figure that they will share what they want to share when they want to share it. I have yet to be bamboozled out of money, kidnapped or physically harmed. Sure, I’ve had the rare bump or bruise to my ego. But for the most part I have come out unscathed. I find not knowing too much makes the process that much easier.

The unfortunate part of being me is that I know that most innocuous comments aren’t really innocuous. Put them together and you have a certain picture in your head. It’s unfortunate but many of us have preconceived ideas associated with certain characteristics and criteria.

You work in finance? Self-important douche.

You’re a lawyer? Self-important, argumentative douche.

You make and sell your own line of handbags/headbands? Trust fund baby.

That’s why I try to avoid asking too many questions and don’t do any recon on my dates. I want to get to know them first-hand and build my perceptions based on those interactions. Through poking around online or digging too deep, I’m inevitably going to find something out that will give me pause. I’d rather have a more well rounded idea of who someone is before I do that.

Here’s an example: I’ve been going to the same dentist for about 10 years. I love him. He’s done exceptional work and has always been sensitive to my fear of dentists that began when I was a kid. I have been in and out of dentists offices since I was about 4 years old. I ended up having to Google him a few weeks ago to get his new number. Of course I come across a few Yelp review that were negative. Now instead of going into that appointment carefree, I was in a panic. Even though this doctor had been so good with me in the past, I had to get past those negative review. That was the first time in the ten years of my visits that I felt any pain during a procedure. Why? Because I had built up an image in my head. That doctor had to regain my trust, even though he didn’t know it.

This is why I tell all my profile review clients who use OK Cupid to stick to the softball questions that are asked that help gauge compatibility. Avoid revealing things that will likely make someone think twice or fill in the blanks with their imagination. There’s nothing more counter-productive than manufacturing someone’s back story based on some Facebook profile photos and tweets. I can assure you that you only have half the story. We share publicly what we want people to see and believe.

Like I said to Heather the other day, people are judgemental. This idea that someone should get to know you for you and not what you share on the internet is naive. That’s not how most people function these days. Certain things revealed will conjure up an image for some people. Those things can also attract the wrong people. The solution, of course,is quite simple. Share little to nothing that could be construed as provocative OR accept that 75% of the people that find you online will be repelled or disingenuous in one way or another. I accepted a long time ago that I was going to make a choice between what mattered more: my career or finding a guy. After weighing pros and cons and determining what was more likely to bring me the security and sense of accomplishment I needed to be happy, I chose this. I then re-appropriated my expectations and efforts, which eventually made my dating life exponentially easier. This blog doesn’t present me as particularly feminine. Quite the opposite. My insight into how men think combined with my demeanor make it difficult for men to see me as feminine. It’s a constant struggle, but one that I’m at least aware of and trying to rectify. I go into dates knowing that. It doesn’t hurt to get feedback on how a casual observer might perceive you based on what they find online.

I realize that many people have become dependent on the idea of Googling and all that. I guess what I’m suggesting is to remind yourself, as you’re traipsing through their online pantie drawer, that you don’t have the full picture. Before you let your mind run wild and all those insecurities and judgements come out, remember that what you see before you on Facebook or Twitter is a one dimensional representation of that person.If you’re not going to make the effort to get to know the person, then that should reveal how interested you were in the first place and what attracted you to that person.

To those who share and overshare, always anticipate the forthcoming judgments that will come your way. You might think, in the moment, what you’re saying is scathingly brilliant and funny and interesting. But before you click send or submit take those 3 seconds to ask yourself how this will make you look. Don’t be so eager to be written about on a blog. Think before you speak when you’re interviewed. Consider the ramification of what impressions certain photos will make.

Bad judgement is not something that people easily forgive.

 

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Beware The Facebook Friend Collector & Guys Who Just Want to Be Friends

Name: Lala
Age: 28
State: MN
Question: I recently separated from my husband. We are getting divorced and I have started dating. My ex has a serious girlfriend.

I had an intense, horrible relationship with someone right out the door. I was not ready to date anyone and it ended very badly. This was very hard for me since I had only been in one serious relationship, the one with my soon to be ex-husband. I was 16 when I met him, 18 when we had our son, and 21 when I married him. I’m now 28. Needless to say, I am very new to dating.

Eventually I was feeling like getting back on the horse and one of my coworkers mentioned an online dating site. I always looked down on them in the past and didn’t really want to do it, but I didn’t want to go to the bar every time I didn’t have my son and end up making the same mistakes with the same kind of guys.
I tried out two. One I paid for and one was free. The paid site was horrible for my confidence. It seemed as though I was not attractive to the kind of guys I was looking for. The free site was like a shock in the water. I received email after email after email!!! I was excited yet kind of taken back by this. I talked to a LOT of guys in the first month on that site and yet only two from the paid site. The two on the paid site were nice and seemed more interested in actual relationships. I only met up with one. He was what I thought I was looking for, but he was not interested in me for more than friendship. That is what he told me after the date anyway. He ended up trying to hook up with me a few times a few weeks later.

I met up with a lot of guys from the free site. All were nice, some more fun than others, all very attractive, but I have yet to make a connection with any of them. They like me and text a lot, but I seem to get to a third date and feel like they are not what I’m looking for.

During the middle of this, and what I am writing this about, I got all dolled up and went dancing with a group of people for my niece’s 21st birthday. I hadn’t really dressed up since before I separated and since I had lost some weight,  I was feeling pretty good and decided  to wear a sexy outfit and show myself off.
We went dancing and I let loose. I had a really great time. Just about to the end of the night, I was standing in an open area away from the dance floor just to the side of the bar. My best friend and I were posing for a picture. We were being kind of silly and having fun with it. After that we went to return to the dance floor. I was approached by a VERY attractive guy. He was dark and handsome and I stood and talked with him for about a half hour. I, being a bit intoxicated, told him he was adorable and was about to walk away when he asked for my number. I gave it to him and went on dancing until the place closed and we all left.
Later that night, he called me while we were getting some food. I walked outside and talked with him for a few minutes and invited him to come hang out with us at the party back at the house. He said he couldn’t but would like to see me again soon.

The next day I didn’t even really remember him getting my number and when I thought about it, I figured he and I were just drunk and he would not end up contacting me again. I was wrong. He texted me the next day and asked how the rest of my weekend was. We chatted a little and friended each other on Facebook. It turns out he is a model and a bartender. I was a little surprised that he had interest in me. Now, I have confidence, but this specimen was a little “out of my league”.

We have continued to talk on the phone from time to time, text and we have made plans to meet up. He got sick the first time, the second time my car broke down.  He texted me on the way back from his sister’s wedding the other day and said that he was thinking about me all weekend.

I have continued to meet up with people from the online site for dates and even met someone the good old fashioned way and went on a couple of dates with him, but this weekend I decided to do something different. I texted him and said: “I know this might be a little out of the blue, but I am a very straight forward person. I know we don’t know each other very well,  but are you interested in me for dating or are you simply looking for friendship?” I got an almost instant response. It usually takes him a few minutes between texts, this was lighting fast. He said: “Well, I don’t know you very well. That is my fault though. I think you are cool and I am going to make time for you this week no matter what.” I was about to reply and he also sent: “I love that you asked that!” I ended up replying with a simple thanks and said for him to get in touch with me this week.

So, long story short, I am wondering if I should count this guy out or if I should try to meet up again and see where it goes. I’m a little skeptical because he is nice, funny and very attractive. I know he has a lot of females in his life. I don’t want to feel “special” if I’m really not.

Thanks,
L

 

This guy is collecting female friends for his Facebook page so he can make himself seem desirable.He’s getting number after number at these clubs where he hangs out, adding them to his phone and maintaining conversations with multiple women at any given time.

Anyone that eager to let you into their Facebook/Twitter/Blog world is probably just seeking attention. They don’t care what you see, what pics you view or what wall posts you read. They just want the addition to their follower count and to show off. They want an audience.

He called later that night after meeting you because he was looking for someone to hook up with and couldn’t find anyone else. That’s all he wants, I think. He’ll probably try to make last minute plans with you should he not have anything else going on. He’ll invest just enough, sending texts and complimenting you. That’s so he can offer that last minute invite and it will seem genuine and not just a last ditch effort.

You’re not special to him. Nobody is.

As for the paid versus free online dating sites, yes, you’re going to kind fewer clowns on the paid sites. There will still be some, but not as many as the free sites. Don’t assume that because someone pays for their membership that that means they’re more serious, though.They’re paying to avoid the flakes and clowns as well as to meet people who actually want to get offline. Also realize that, on the paid sites, many of the people you see with “active” profiles aren’t paying members. That means they can’t email you or respond to messages. That’s part of the reason why you received so few messages.  This is the main reason why I won’t pay for a Match.com subscription or a Nerve Dating membership. I will not use a “free to sign up but you have to pay to contact people” site. They might have a lot of members, but my guess is very few of them pay to be there and have no emailing capability.  At least with a free site you know everybody can reply or respond. There are way fewer fake or dead profiles.

As for your guy who didn’t want more than friendship, dig this: he says that to everybody. PS? Being “just friends” does not involve having sex. Like your Facebook guy, this guy takes out woman after woman and tells her the same story. They agree to be friends because he follows through and wants to “hang out as friends.” Then he makes his move.  He’s just looking for casual hook ups.  If he just came out and said that, nobody would go out with him. So he takes them on a date, tells them he just wants to be friends, hangs out under the guise of being friends and then they hook up.

And…scene.

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READER RANT – Why Can’t Some Guys Totally Let Go?

Why do men get back in contact with you when they are in a serious, established relationship?  I dated a guy about 4 years ago, and it was serious.  We dated for 6 months, and he seemed to have some concerns about the relationship but did not voice them clearly to me.  At the time he said “something is missing” but that he wasn’t sure what it was.  We ended things amicably and I defriended him on Facebook at that time.  I was disappointed, but life moved on.   Two months after we ended things, he attempted to surprise me at my place, saying that he wanted to talk to me.  I politely declined as I am not one for surprises in that capacity but wished him well.  This upset him at that time, and we have not spoken since then.  In January of this year, one day he sent me a FB friend request.  I accepted, out of mild curiosity and a bit of nosiness.   I know that on my end, there will never be any future interest in him, and that is why I was indifferent to the idea of FB friendship.  So upon seeing his page, he has a serious girlfriend, and they are happy together.  It’s clear that their families are entertwined, and that they are a very established couple.  Cool beans. 
 
At the time he added me, he began to comment on my page pretty consistently, to the point that one of my friends asked me whether or not the guy and I were rekindling things.  I advised that we weren’t, and I continued to be polite, generic, and friendly as I would be to anyone on my page.  It never crossed into flirtation on either part.  I’ve never commented on his page otherwise or made any attempts to initiate conversation with him.  Through FB updates and the like,  I found out that he bought his first home this summer and proposed to his then girlfriend.  I’m glad that he is so happy.  He inboxed me on my birthday, and I left a generic message on his wall for his birthday, returning the favor.  Recently he defriended me just as randomly as he added me in the first place. 
 
But still…why on earth would he reach out to me after so long?  What was he expecting to see / hear from me?  My page is very generic, as I’m a very private person.  He knows this, so if the point was to dig for information, nothing substantial would be found.  I mean, you’re happy with your life.  Why reach back to the long ago past?
I had a similar situation a few months ago. A guy I had dated about 3 years ago would send me emails to say hello and catch up. One night this past spring, he sent me a text message wanting to get together. “My curiosity has gotten the better of me” he said. (We had never slept together.)  The man I was dating at the time was there and an awkward situation followed. The next day I replied to the guy and told him he was never to contact me like that again. I went on to say that he should think twice before sending a woman a text like that on a weekend night as he might be creating an uncomfortable situation for her. He apologized profusely. A couple months later he sent an email telling me how much he liked my new Facebook profile photo. (We had become FB friends around the time we had dated.) The other day, he appeared in my FB timeline. It was a photo of him with his new bride right after their wedding a few weeks ago. I wasn’t mad or bothered in any way. But then, doing what I do, I see and hear a lot of things. It doesn’t surprise me to hear that a man about to be married or engaged is still creeping around the Facebook page/Blog/Twitter feed of someone he dated.

A certain someone needs to read less of my blog (behind his wife’s back) & maybe, I don’t know, focus on his marriage? #ForShitsSake

 

Last summer I discovered another guy I had been involved with also snooping around my social media profiles. I made it clear to him privately that I didn’t appreciate his presence and asked him to stop. Instead of just saying he understood and would retreat, he said I was “ascribing a deep psychology” to why he was popping by. “I added you to my blog roll because I enjoy your perspectives” he said.  I made sure he got as much out of my perspectives as he possibly could from that point on. Nobody likes feeling monitored. Especially by people who, for the most part,  treated you like dirt under their fingernails.

Why do they do it? I think there are different reasons.

1. They want to be sure that they’ve got everything out of their system - I think the guy who sent me a text probably wanted to slide in one last go round before he popped the question. We never get that stuff out of our system. We will always be looking or lusting. Commitment doesn’t temper that.

2.They want to see if they’re still on your mind- In the case of Mr. Ascribe a Deep Psychology, he also mentioned in our email conversation that he was currently up to up to speed on what was going on with not only his most recent ex-girlfriend but high school girlfriends. Meanwhile, he had a new girlfriend at the time. Why was he so plugged in to the lives of Exes? My guess is he didn’t want to be totally forgotten by any of us.

3. Something is prevent them from moving on – Maybe it’s guilt. Maybe it’s a sexual attraction. Maybe it’s genuine feelings. Whatever it is, these guys are having a difficult time detaching. Staying connected through social media is a way to safely maintain any connection at all without crossing lines. I wrote a long time ago that Facebook and Twitter make break ups that much harder to let go. This is why.

4. They hate being thought of as “the bad guy” or wondering “what if?” - Mr Ascribe a Deep Psychology had sent me a 2,000 apology letter last May. Several weeks later I ended up unblocking him on Facebook. A week later, he blocked me even though we hadn’t spoken since his apology and despite me wishing him well in his new relationship. Had I not foolishly checked his page, I wouldn’t even have known. Phony apologies and Wall Flirting are empty gestures extended for self-serving purposes. These guys are trying to alleviate a guilty conscience. OP, your guy only friended you to see what was going on with you. When his curiosity was sated and he realized you wouldn’t give him what he wanted, he left.

5. They want to keep a door open in case things don’t work out – Never before was it easier to maintain a harem, cheat or keep your options open. At any given moment we can find that ex that we had great sex with and inbox them. Men and women both cultivate a Back Up roster. These people are Break In Case of Break Up Lays.

I’ve said this before. I bet most men and women would be shocked to know what their partners are doing behind their backs. Even the most solid, upstanding of men and women are prone to engage in a little extra-curricular social media activity.

Thoughts?

 

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Full Disclosure: How Much Is Too Much or Too Little?

Private Man recently emailed me and asked for feedback on a reader question.  Here’s the scenario:

A man met a woman online and arranged a date. In the hours before the arranged meet up, the woman asked the man for his last name. She explicitly told him that she was asking so she could Google him. The guy said he felt freaked out, but gave her his last name anyway.

He wanted to know what the real reason was for the woman’s admission and request and how to circumvent this issue in the future.

In my mind, there’s the “real” reason and the real reason why she would want his last name.

The “real” reason, of course, is to Google the guy and do a little re-con work. The “real” reason, in my opinion, was to force familiarity with the guy and attempt to take a power position in the relationship. It’s another test. If he gives her his last name, then he “really” likes and trusts her. Whatever info she can gather is just a bonus. Most people Google their dates. (I don’t. I find it futile.) Fewer people actually tell someone that they are going to do so.

Someone who tells you that they will Google you is no different than the person who tells you they won’t sleep with you on a first date. They’re looking for  specific reaction. If a woman tells a man she’s not going to sleep with him, she wants to see how he’s going to respond. In her mind, if he stops showing interest in her then he was just looking to get laid.  Same goes for a woman who announces to a guy that she’s going to Google him. It’s an ineffective test women use to gauge just how sincere someone is. (Yes, I know. “Safety shamer!”) As with most tests, all it does is provide someone with a false sense of security. And what happens when you function under a false sense of security? You get bamboozled. Ironic, right?

The more something becomes less common or obsolete, like calling someone to ask them out, the more important certain people want it. Fewer people are handing out their last names to their online dates. So, of course, more people are now insisting upon that information before setting up a date. It’s another way for them to prove to themselves that this person is sincere and genuinely interested. Don’t take it personally that someone doesn’t welcome you into their online home before they have a date or two under their belt. Most people offer the information if asked. Just understand that by asking for specific information, people will assume you are using it for one thing. Most people won’t care. That is, unless you tell them outright what you’re doing. That’s when people get unsettled. Not because they fear you’ll uncover some deep dark secret but because nobody likes knowing that someone is Google/Facebook Creeping them. My friend has an appropriate analogy for this situation.

It is like worrying that ghosts are watching you while you sleep.  It’s a problem of your own imagination.

Accept that people do it and that we are now in a sate of a “new” normal in this regard. As I’ve said before, I think the whole concept of doing research on a date or someone you’re dating to be unnecessary. Creeping on someone like a new date or an Ex, as long as it stays within the lines, is only destructive to the person doing the creeping. Accept that it’s not atypical and just be mindful of it and let it go. We’re all mini-celebrities now. People like to watch and judge and analyze. That’s just how it is now.

You do a background check on someone you’re going to marry or somehow tie yourself to legally or financially. You don’t do background checks on people you’re just dating. If you sense someone is lying or not who they say they are, walk away. That’s it. You ask them questions, you pay attention to inconsistencies and you don’t ignore your gut. It’s very simple. These horror stories we hear about scam artists and predators almost always involve glaring red flags that people overlooked or ignored. Yes, there are the cases here and there where someone ended up being a sociopath and doing serious mental and physical harm. But those cases are the exceptions to the rule and not the rule. A sociopath can and will sneak under the radar, undetectable by even a background check. Google will not protect you from those people.

To answer the query about how to navigate this type of request before meeting someone, I’m not really sure you can. If you tell someone you don’t want to give out specific info, you’ll look like you’re hiding something. If someone isn’t satisfied with the fact that you’ve given them your phone number before meeting, my guess is that person might have some trust issues and therefore end up being a handful. It’s best to disengage right then. If you really like them, then give them the additional details they request.  The fact that someone is asking you for more info should tell you one thing: they don’t trust you. Maybe they’ve been burnt in the past or maybe they’re just really needy or maybe there is something about your behavior that is tripping off an internal wire somewhere. Who knows? Only you can decide if that person is worth getting to know. If you are someone who is hyper-private or Google-averse, I have to say that online dating probably isn’t a great way to meet people.  So either accept that this is now the new normal or stop dating.

Giving a phone number or email address alone is usually enough to give the person all the info they need to hit up Google.  This is why I think the woman’s request was a red herring. She had his number. All she had to do was do  reverse look up of that to get his last name. She wasn’t afraid he was going to abduct her or con her out of cash. She just wanted to see what he’d say so she could tell herself she stood out from his other options.

 

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When Do You Go Public?

It used to be that only celebrities had to be concerned with going public with a new relationship. Nobody likes to get dumped or have a broken engagement. (Hello, Bennifer.) Nor do people like having certain aspects of their love lives be made public fodder. (Well, some do. Especially people who need drama in order to keep their lives and relationships interesting.)

Nowadays we all are mini-celebrities thanks to social media. Each of us – at least those that choose to participate in Facebook or Twitter or Blogging or even online dating – now make our love lives accessible to the masses. And the stalkers. And the exes.

The question used to be about when we should introduce our partners to our friends and family.  Now we have a whole other consideration. How much of our dating history do we wish to make known and when? How do we make room for the new without disrespecting the old?

I recently went through my Facebook page and deleted some photos. There weren’t any of past lovers or exes. I don’t post pictures like that. It’s hard enough for a man to date a woman who creates a public persona for herself. He doesn’t need to be tossed into the fishbowl with me. Though maybe someday soon I’ll feel differently and a lot less paranoid.

I was once using a friend’s computer while at his place. As he sat and watched TV, I was working on his laptop. In order to post a column to Facebook, I had to be logged in to Facebook to do it. My friend happened to walk over to me while I was doing this and asked if that was my Facebook page. (He doesn’t have one due to his job.) He asked if he could look at my page.

“Who’s this?” he asked?

It was a shot of me and a friend from a party last summer. I explained who he was and how I knew him. And that he was now married.The conversation was quick and painless, mostly due to the fact that I didn’t have much on my page that would encourage more discussion. But not everybody shares the same thinking. They upload their whole lives. At the time I;m sure it felt like the right thing to do. I just remember wondering if they ever wished they had done more housekeeping before someone new walked through the door to their past.

When do you go public with a new relationship? I’m not talking about updating a relationship status. I’m talking about incorporating someone into your online life. Do you want people knowing about your new love? Or are you afraid to make something public domain for fear it will blow up in your face?

The other question that arose was how you respectfully turned the page to a new chapter in your life without offending someone. Do you delete the photos? Put them in their own album and adjust the settings so only you can view them?

What if you broke up with someone? When do you gently try to move on without hurting your ex should they still follow you or see your page? Do you even care? Do you contact them and let them know of the new development so they can hear it from you?

Finally…do you ask permission of the person you’re dating if it’s okay to post photos of the two of you?

What’s your personal protocol?

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Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell

After a profile review session this week, I decided to compile a list of questions that people should never ask someone on the first few dates and/or at all.

1. “So, what are you looking for?” - First of all, few people ever answer this honestly. Second of all, many people don’t have an answer for that question. Ask someone if they are looking for a relationship and they are likely to say yes. That doesn’t mean they want one now or with you. They don’t know yet. They’re allowed to not know. As we’ve said before, anybody who leap frogs all the other steps and jumps right in to commitment usually does so for a reason. And that reason is usually that they’re hiding something like a shady past or serious personality/emotional defect. One client told me yesterday that a coach she worked with told her to include her relationships goals – including how she wanted another child and was looking for a long term and committed relationship – in her profile

2.” Who sent you that text?” - Here’s a fun conversation to have at 2am when you and your guy are basking in the afterglow of your sweet, sweet lovin’. I recently had this happen to me, and the five or so minutes after that text bell rang were rather..uncomfortable. There’s no way you can lie about a text coming in after 11pm. We all know what it is. You can ignore it, of course. But then that, too, makes you look guilty. So the only answer you can give in that moment is the truth. Yes, dear. She or he has been with someone else other than you at some point. Side note: turn your phone off.

3. “When was your last relationship?” - I find questions like this funny, because it’s not like the answer is actually going to deter someone from seeing you again. Oh, and because people will probably lie or fudge the truth. Pointless.

4. “Are you dating anyone else?” - If you have to ask then you probably already know the answer. Always assume the answer is yes and base your decisions on that. Asking someone that question puts them on the defensive.It also makes you look all shades of anxious and needy.

5.”How can you be single?/Why are you single?” - Dear God in heaven, don’t ask a single woman this. Especially if she’s over 35. She will plummet down that rabbit hole and land with a resounding thud faster than you can say, “Just curious!” Truth is, you probably don’t want to know why, and no answer is going to reassure you that the person sitting across from you isn’t an emotional cripple or socially awkward shut in. Ideally, you want to know why you’re single. However, you don’t necessarily want to share that fact with some stranger. Don’t turn the question around on the other person. It will make you look defensive. Just say, “I guess because I haven’t met anybody that I’ve been really excited about.”

6. “How many people have you slept with?” – Don’t ask this. Ever. Ever ever ever. If asked, and your number is objectively “high”  lie.

7. “Who is that person who posted on your Wall/Tweeted at you?” - You need to wait until you’re in a really comfortable place with someone before you can inquire about things like this. Any time before you’re exclusive or settled in to a consistent pattern of seeing each other will make you look possessive and clingy.

 

Anyone have any others?

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The Stranger

Name: Kitty

State: NY
Age: 45
Comment: Hi Moxie:  So I’m giving online dating a try and signed up for JDate.  My Modern Orthodox community here on Long Island is medium size, but I’m open to meeting less religious types…and those outside of my immediate area.  Among those that keep showing up as ideal matches are a few guys in my community…two of whom are actually interesting.  Not sure how to handle the “I see you on JDate” thing, I sent each of them a cute email which essentially said “Hi I see you here online, nice profile”.  Nothing more personal.  One man I know (he’s in the fashion biz and seems to date models), and the other is a very high profile business man.  (He’s widowed).

I should add that I have kids in middle school and both of these gents have kids who are in college and beyond…so unless they want a busy household…I won’t be interesting on that level either.

Did I do the wrong thing by saying a nice hello online?  Both responded politely, nothing more.  Not that I’m really expecting something, but I’m curious as to how YOU would handle things when you see someone in your extended circle on line.

 

Here’s what I think, and this is definitely going to be colored by my personal preference.

In today’s world, many of us have online and offline personas. We all feel somewhat vulnerable about who sees and who knows what.  I’ve had men reply to my dating profile and refer to the column or call me Moxie. I don’t like it. I always delete those emails or don’t respond. If I did respond, it would only encourage the guys to continue emailing me and I don’t want that. As I’ve said before, I don’t date men who show interest in the column in any way beyond general curiosity or who offer themselves up as column fodder. These men are showing interest in Moxie, not the real me. I am at a distinct disadvantage with those men, since they have access to me that I don’t have of them.  That makes me way too vulnerable, so I avoid them at all costs.  I’ve been involved with someone who did that, who used information he learned from monitoring me online without my knowledge, and used said information to his advantage while feigning ignorance.  I’m sure most of these men have no malicious intent. But some do, so they all get thrown in one group. Not a risk I’m willing to take.

While there is no real stigma to dating online anymore, that doesn’t mean people are totally comfortable with folks from their “real” lives knowing anything about their personal lives that they do not choose to share. It’s not about being embarrassed. It’s about feeling a little too vulnerable. We’re all so accessible now that I think many people prefer to believe – even if it isn’t true – that they can still be somewhat anonymous. (PS? You submitted this letter using your real name. In the future, be sure to use an alias. If I didn’t know you, I may have posted this letter using your real name thinking it was an alias. )

I often see people I know on various dating sites. I don’t contact them unless we’re close friends. If I know them well enough and want to say hello, I email them. But if they are just guys I’ve dated or acquaintances? I let them go about their business. I allow them to believe that nobody is watching. Dating is hard enough. Nobody wants to think that someone is monitoring their personal lives in some way. Sure, people might say that they’re choosing to put themselves out there, etc. Yes, I agree. But there’s a difference between putting themselves out there the way I or any other blogger does it and the way a “civilian” does it.

I think, should you encounter other men online that you know in real life, you shouldn’t acknowledge that in your intro email. If they recognize you, they recognize you.  By saying something to them about how you know them offline, it could make them a bit…paranoid. By not saying something, you’re demonstrating an understanding of privacy and boundaries, two things very important to most men.

I don’t think you did anything wrong by saying hello, per se. But I wouldn’t be surprised if their polite response and nothing more had a little to do with the fact that they recognized you from real life.

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Beware The Man Who Commits Too Soon – Part Trois

See Parts One and Two here.

Here’s the latest installation of this story:

Thanks for the feedback. It turned out that last week some woman (he swears he doesnt know) has been emailing many of his friends and myself as some sort of obssesion and revenge saying she hates him because he offered to take her out for dinner and on vacations and she feels he lied to her and that she found out hes married. ??? The way she wrote she sounded like a lunatic. I got pretty upset at first but he said he doesnt even know her. The next day he got me roses. Since crazy woman emailed a bunch of his contacts, he posted an apology to everyone on his wall. Next day he posted a picture of us and some of his friends commented that they finally see who he had been talking about and glad to finally see me. We see each other every other day pretty much and whole weekends so theres no need to interact much on facebook but I admit I was happy to have him acknowledge me on his facebook as stupid as it sounds. – Carina

 

I’m going to do my best Whoopi Goldberg/Rita Mae Brown impression here.

Carina…you in danger, girl.

Having some random woman contact you and tell you that this guy is a fraudster should be given at least a modicum of consideration. She knows something.

If he doesn’t know her, how did she know how to find you? Remember, he wasn’t making your relationship public. His close friends didn’t even know who you were. So how did she know? Carina, he obviously knows this woman. To say he doesn’t is a bold-faced lie. You shouldn’t be overlooking that just because he bought you flowers and caved and posted a photo of you on his Facebook page. He only did that because he had been caught. Not because he wanted to.

Since crazy woman emailed a bunch of his contacts, he posted an apology to everyone on his wall.

Again, he did this for your benefit. (Or hers.) Why would anybody use their Facebook page to announce something like this?? That’s something you address privately. Hon, he wouldn’t even acknowledge YOU publicly. Why make this public to people, especially possible business contacts?

If he had told you “sorry, that’s some psycho I dated once that stalks me,” I would be less worried.   Even if that was a lie, at least it’s a credible one.- DMN

He obviously knows who she is, and he’s covering his ass. He’s certainly not protecting you from said “crazy woman.” Guys who attract “crazy women” are usually crazy themselves. The fact is that you don’t know what he’s doing when he’s not with you. Wasn’t he just away for a couple weeks? Sounds to me like he met somebody while away and fed her the same BS he fed you. I mean, look at the two of you. She’s writing to his friends, you’re writing in here. You’re really not that different. This guy appears to make women very, very insecure. Or he is drawn to women prone to insecurity. Either way, none of this looks very good.

This guy is hiding something. I’ve said it from Day One. How can you not be at least a little bit curious about the married accusation?

Carina, something is up. You have to pull yourself out of this situation and look at it objectively. You are choosing to ignore the obvious because you don’t want to lose this guy.

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Beware The Man Who Commits Too Soon – Part Deux

Name: Carina
State: FL
Age:  32
Comment: Hi, Ive been with my boyfriend for 3 months now.  Things are going well and we are getting closer every day.  Ive met some of his friends and vice versa.  As most people, we have facebook accounts and we added each other from month 1.  We traveled together 2 weeks ago to Europe for 10 days but he didn’t upload any pics.  He sent them to me on an online album.  He has very few pictures on facebook but do have 3 pictures from 3 years ago with an ex at restaurants, etc… all had other people in them.  All the pics on his facebook are tags from his friends. He’s in the technology business and has a lot of clients and employees on facebook so 90% of his comments are work related but he does posts daily.  Well, he posts on his tweeter and they upload into facebook automatically.  We haven’t seen each other for 2 weeks because we’ve both been traveling. Question is I’ve been tempted to write on his wall telling him I miss him or commenting on his posts but hes never written on mine so I dont know if I should.  I feel it may be sending the message of “I’m insecure and want everyone to know we r together”.  We speak over the phone several times a day, so is not like facebook is our mean to communicate ever.  But still….  Any feedback?

For additional back story on this situation, read Carina’s first letter so you can follow possible references to the original post.

Since it appears as though he maintains a Facebook page more for work purposes than anything else, and isn’t uploading photos from your trip, that he prefers to keep his private life offline.

I feel it may be sending the message of “I’m insecure and want everyone to know we r together”.

That’s is the message that posting a sentiment like that would send. And let’s be honest, that’s exactly why you would want to post it. If you and he talk all the time, several times a day, there’s no reason for you to post something so personal on his Facebook Wall other than to make your presence known. That’s why most people do it. That’s why they post photos and write cutesy tweets and Like even the most obscure or boring of updates. They want everybody to know that they have someone. Or they want to piss off an ex. Or they just want attention.

You’re bothered that he’s not uploading your trip photos to Facebook. I can understand that. Now, if we didn’t have the first letter and the additional info in there, I’d say you this was a simple case of being insecure. But since we do, I want to follow up on something you said in the first letter. You said he’s met your family. Have you met his? Maybe that’s what the trip to Europe was about. I don’t know. What I do know is that something causing you to be insecure and maybe a little paranoid. What is it?

Is it a bad sign that he’s not posting things on Facebook? Taken at face value, my answer is no. He works in technology and so he’s probably hyper-aware of the privacy issues on Facebook. I find people who are eager to post pictures and updates are usually doing it for the benefit of others or to support some manufactured image they have of themselves and not out of genuine contentment or happiness.

Listen, we all do it to some degree. We Facebook stalk exes, we pour over albums to take a look at their past lovers. We read their tweets. (Or, ahem, their blog.) We keep tabs on past boyfriends or girlfriends or lovers.  It’s hardly atypical these days and it usually isn’t done maliciously. (Unless of course somebody is looking to add a little dramz to their life or tedious relationship.)  Rational people know the lines, and we don’t cross them. We don’t impose ourselves in that person’s life in any way, especially if we know we’re not wanted. We might have private snark/analysis sessions with our friends, but that’s about it. Plus, it’s entertaining to watch the self-obsessed drama queens flame out or take themselves too seriously. It’s all for attention and to add to some creepy mystique or to add some spice to their relationship or to mess with their significant other. I’ve mentioned before that I have male friends who intentionally write on the walls of women who are mutual friends with the women they date. They do it intentionally to get a reaction. Which then compels the woman they’re taunting to check their page that much more often and be on high alert. As I said in an article I wrote for The Good Men Project yesterday, social media does not kill relationships. People kill relationships (TM Crotch Rocket.)

You need to be honest with yourself about a few things. You just wrote a comment about how, when you lived in NYC, you had a hard time finding a guy who wanted a relationship. Maybe you did encounter those guys, but your inability to trust and need to mark your territory pushed them away? When you’re watching what you guy is doing via Facebook because you fear something is off, that’s when it all becomes a problem.

I think you fear that this guy is hiding you away for some reason. Frankly, I think he is. Maybe not hiding you so much as holding off on bringing you in to the fold. You’re concerned that he doesn’t seem eager (or as eager as you) to let everybody know about your relationship. You’re of the mindset that this is a magical love affair and that he should be shouting it from the roof tops. To him, this is just a new relationship, like all the ones he has had before. (And FYI…those relationships never stuck, according to you. ) Maybe he has a recent Ex. Maybe he is cautious about what he shares publicly.Maybe he’s questioning the relationship. Maybe he doesn’t want there to be any public evidence that he’s in a relationship. It’s too early to tell and I don’t know him.

You, on the other hand, are desperate to broadcast this relationship publicly. Not that I don’t understand your anxiety. I do. This guy definitely seems, based on what you’ve shared, to be  slow at incorporating you into his life. This is why I say that committing early, offering you a key to his place, traveling,  meeting your family, etc means nothing . If he’s not making the same effort to introduce you to his world – his public world – something is off. (Also a red flag is if he’s too eager to make the relationship public. That’s for a reason, and it usually isn’t happiness.)

You’re insecure for a reason. Either you’re a naturally insecure person or something about this relationship is setting off some warning bells. It doesn’t make sense that, after all this guy has done and alllll the bragging you have done, that you’re this insecure about Facebook.

I said it last time and I’ll say it again. This guy was way too eager to commit, and likely did so to get laid since you admitted that you told him you don’t have sex without commitment. He committed casually, knowing he could always leave. Which isn’t real commitment.

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