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Would You Give a Second Date To a Guy Who Didn’t Pay for The First?

April 12, 2013 by 112 Comments

Author : KC
I went on a date last night with a guy I met online.  He suggested dinner and I thought it was a very gentlemanly thing to do.  The date went fairly well – conversation flowed, he was extremely complimentary, telling me I was far more stunning than my posted pictures and he was shocked at how well we seemed to click. We discussed family, jobs (both have great, well-paying jobs) and aspirations.

Near the end of the meal, he asked when he could see me next -  again telling me he was thrilled with his first impression and excited to see where this may lead.

I was flattered and also a bit excited.

BUT…when the bill came, he sort of reluctantly took it and then asked me for HALF…  I must have turned white – I was so shocked.  I of course handed him the cash and then a quick hug and bee-lined for the door.

I made the mistake of giving this bozo my phone number and now’s he’s a texting maniac – asking when we can see each other again.  I don’t want to sound superficial but I am so turned off by this tacky behavior (dinner was at his suggestion and I am a very generous person and would happily pick up future tabs).  How do I tell him to take a hike and hopefully teach him a little something about how you treat a lady?

Advice would be most welcomed – Thanks!!!

 

He reluctantly took the bill because, possibly like you, he was having a really great time and he was looking to see if you would offer to contribute to the bill. See, that who pays test works both ways. Unlike you, he’s willing to brush it off and give it another go.

Here’s what your real question is: How do I swallow my pride and accept a date with this guy again without looking desperate or losing my power? If you truly had no interest in seeing him again, his texts wouldn’t bother you. You’d simply reply back and tell him something suddenly came up and you won’t be seeing each other again. People who complain about all the pestering texts they get from folks aren’t really griping. They’re bragging. You, love, are bragging.  So accept the date and move past this, because you know that’s what you want to do. How much more does he need to do to woo you? He agreed to dinner on a first date, something no guy does. The conversation went well. He showered you with compliments. You got the majority of The Girlfriend Experience. Which, frankly, I see as a red flag. Not sure how genuine this guy is. For that reason alone I’d want another date.Experienced guys know that dinner on a first date is a no no. So he’s either inexperienced or disingenuous. Only time will tell.

Was it as simple as he “reluctantly” took the bill or did he sit there and watch you steadfastly refuse to even pretend to want to pay your share. If I were confronted with that sense of expectation and entitlement, I would probably do exactly what he did.Who the hell is anybody to expect me to spend my money, money I work hard for, on them just because they agreed to meet me for a meal?

First dates aren’t all about the man working to impress the woman. It’s about both people trying to make a good first impression. You don’t seem at all concerned that maybe you failed the test. Because you did. While many women will turn to friends or the internet to complain/brag about their date with the cheap Unicorn, most men will just chalk it up to poor communication. They might even make a judgment call that the woman is possible spoiled or entitled. They don’t crowd source the experience. They decide to either file that away and give it another go or to blow her off and move on to the next.

Maybe by asking you to help pay, he was trying to teach you a lesson about how to treat a guy.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating 2.0, First Date Etiquette Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

How Do You Know If a Guy Is Really Sincere?

February 15, 2013 by 18 Comments

Name: Marie
Age: 45
State: Florida
Question: ok, so I met this wonderful man. His eye contact and body language all showed me he was sincere in everything he talked about. He seems so caring, loving, giving, just the right guy for me all around. My question is he asked me if I would like to go out of town for a few days? We had one date and talked and texted a lot the past few days. Normally I would so no way…I do not even know this man… but I know some people will meet each other for the first time out of town and spend a weekend together. I feel comfortable but am I jumping too fast and possibly putting myself in harms way? I don’t feel like it, but family have told me he could be a bad person and I should not do it. I have dated many men and he is the first real genuine nice and good man I have met where I saw these traits right away… Any thoughts? Thank you !

 

For me, there are two issues here. The first is how blown away you are by this guy based his non-verbal cues. While I am a big believer in the importance of reading body language and paying attention to various cues, none of those things actually prove anything.  In fact, I think there are a lot of men and women out there who know exactly how to present themselves so that they seem more sincere and convincing. We all learn how to navigate situations in a way to get what we want. It’s not difficult to learn these things. Since you don’t know this guy really at all, you don’t have a baseline that can be used for comparison purposes.

Should you take him up on his offer to go away for a weekend? I really don’t know. Yesterday, in the comments of another thread, the issue of whether or not someone would accept a 2nd date on Valentine’s Day came up. A couple of people insisted that they would not do that. Much like the “I’ll only go down on  woman if she freshly showered and shaved” admission, I find such declarations to be a tell. As I said in response to a tweet yesterday asking who accepts a first date on Valentine’s Day, someone who would is someone who doesn’t over-analyze everything. People who swear up and down that they would “never” do certain things like that are actually revealing that they’ve probably never been presented with the opportunity to do so or have their own issues that would prevent them from being so daring. If you met someone you really liked and they asked you for a first or second date on Valentine’s Day, most people would go. Please. The people who say that it’s too much pressure, might set false expectations, etc are making excuses. If you really liked them, you’d go.

Same goes for this request of taking a trip with this guy. People are going to give you all kinds of reasons that you shouldn’t. Personally, I’m not sure that it’s the best of ideas. Traveling with someone – anyone – can be stressful. I’m not sure that you and this man have established the kind of rapport necessary for you to go into this relatively confident that you and he will not have any problems. As for the security concern, that’s valid too. I think it’s unlikely that he’ll chop your hands off and stick you in a freezer, but it’s still something you should consider. Just like people should consider meeting people from online dating sites in a public place for the first date. Caution is good. Just don’t let it rule you.

You say that this is the first guy that you’ve met who has shown you all these traits right away. That, for me, is the big red flag. What does it tell you that “all” the other men you’ve met have not acted this way? It tells me that either you have not so great judgment in men (as witnessed in this post) OR that this guy is being insincere. The fact that these experiences you have seem to fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum is what concerns me.   You seem rather hungry for a genuine connection. I think that might be clouding your judgment.

I think you might be so used to dealing with guys who are unavailable that you jump at the first guy who is available. Neither is really all that smart. I’d want to know why this guy was so eager and available. Look, I’m the bee’s knees. But even I would immediately be suspect of someone who seemed this interested, this quickly. I’d want to know why he was so available. That would be the reason why I would hold off on that trip for now. I think you need to get to know this guy a bit and get a baseline read on him before you make snap judgments.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Date Sex, First Impressions, Game, PUA, Red Flags Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

Single, Separated, Divorced: How Honest Should You Be?

January 29, 2013 by 30 Comments

This Frisky article might spark some interesting discussion. Once again, I left a comment and it’s being moderated. I’m starting to think it’s personal. :) From the article:

Finding out that “single” signifier on his online dating profile actually should have read “divorced” has happened to me a grand total of FIVE times. I shit you not! Yes, all the guys listed themselves as “single” online, but mentioned their divorces at some point on the first date during the whole “this is my whole resume and life recap” bit. One guy referred to an ex as his “ex-girlfriend” first before letting it slip that they had been married. 

Personally, I don’t care how they present it initially. As long as they are available and not breaking laws or vows/commitments, I don’t care. I totally get why some people (because women do this too) are hesitant to reveal that they are divorced. This Frisky article, to me, has an underlying tone of judgment. Divorced = baggage/bad. Men and Women both know that people will make assumptions about them if they reveal that they are divorced.

“Oh God. Crazy Ex-Wife/Husband alert!”

“He doesn’t have any money because he got screwed in a divorce!”

“Oh, she lives off alimony. Gold digger!”

That’s why some people aren’t upfront about it. As I’ve said before, people who expect total honesty and full disclosure this soon reveal their own inexperience and issues.

I agree that Single, Separated but Single and Divorced are three totally different things. Divorced and Single, to me, are the same thing. I’d want to know sooner than later, but I wouldn’t automatically assume he was being shady if he told me later.  I’d wonder why he felt uncomfortable revealing this info. That would be my first question to him.

I do agree that someone should be upfront in their profile about just being separated. I’d prefer to know that before I decided to meet them. I still might meet them, though. These situations are rarely cut and dry. Someone could be legally separated but no immediate plans to get divorced for financial reasons. Is that an ideal situation? No. But if the guy comes clean and explains it in a way that doesn’t set off any buzzers, I’d be willing to give it a go.

And an honorable mention goes to O’Ex-Boyfriend who dated me exclusively for two whole months before he let it drop that he wasn’t actually legally divorced yet, only separated. Oh, did you just happen to forget to mention it?!?

If a man you’re dating “exclusively” reveals that he actually lied or intentionally mislead you about his marriage/separation status, guess what that means? It means he was never committed to you and that “exclusivity’ was just a weak promise to sleep with only you “for now” or because you pressured him into committing. It’s not the lie itself that bothers us. It’s the implications/motivations behind the lies and revelations that freak us out.

I once went out with a guy from OK Cupid. On his profile he states that he is single. He didn’t fill out the offspring option and left it blank. He also didn’t reveal in what field he worked.  He encouraged women to read his questions. He answered the question about whether or not he wanted to have kids by checking off No. He qualified that by saying that more kids were not in the cards for him.

But here’s the funny part. He was divorced (which he offered in an email conversation) and has 2 kids and works in a field that didn’t appear relevant or connected to things he admitted in his profile. Yet, despite being secretive and almost intentionally misleading about these points, he discloses in his profile that he wants to meet women who don’t mind that he’s already dating other women. Interesting thing to choose to reveal, no? He’ll be honest about that, yet not forthcoming about things as simple as what he does for a living.  I showed my friend his profile before I met him. He laughed out loud at the line about already dating other women.

“That’s like if I sat here talking to you and, out of nowhere, just poked you in the eye. It’s rude and unnecessary.”

“Maybe he just doesn’t want to date women looking for anything serious or exclusive? That’s why I responded to him.”

This particular friend is my Yoda, Robin Williams in Dead Poet’s Society and Hannibal Lechter all rolled into one. I half-expected him to look over his glasses at me and say, “Noooo…that’s incidental.”

“No. It’s just rude. It’s meant to be shocking.. Ask yourself why someone would do that.”

I went into that particular date far more alert after that conversation.

Back to the article. The piece also suggested that people should reveal their STD status in their profile.

Ami and I disagree on this one. She doesn’t think that going on a date with someone means there’s a presumption that sex will take place and that people should disclose once it’s clear sex is going to occur. Meanwhile, I say that you should at the very least obliquely indicate your STD status in some way prior to meeting a person for two reasons. One, so other people wirh similar STDs who may want to date someone who knows what they’re dealing with can find you, and two, so someone for whom an STD is a dealbreaker knows whether to to invest the time.

This just in: most first dates go absolutely nowhere. Why should someone make themselves that vulnerable that soon? It’s like the author of this piece doesn’t even take into account how being public about something like that could compromise other aspects of his life.I also find it really…inconsistent…that someone like this particular author who is constantly talking about sex-positivity would write something that makes it clear that she considers an STD a deal breaker.

It’s not up to a virtual stranger to help you manage your expectations and personal biases. Dating involves investing time and money and accepting that there may be very little return on each investment. If you consider investing time in ONE DATE to be a challenge, then it’s really no secret why you struggle to find someone to date regularly.

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Filed Under: Article Roundup, Awkward, Dating & STDs, Dating After Divorce, Dating is Fun, Dating Lies, Dating Myths, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

First Date No No: Setting a Time Limit To The Date

January 13, 2013 by 34 Comments

The people over at FriendFlirt gave my recent post about First Date Chemistry a shout out. Here’s an interesting suggestion from online dating coach, Laurie Davis:

Laurie’s advice was that the first meeting should be between 45 minutes to an hour. Something low key and simple, just to see if you two click. You want to leave that first meeting right when the chemistry is at it’s peak so that you leave on a great note and are already scheduling your second date.

Or if you don’t click, you didn’t waste a whole lot of time and money on the whole thing.

I love this idea. With the pressure taken off of the first meeting, you two will feel more natural and at ease. Also, if you don’t click, you won’t feel too stressed about it. It was just two people meeting, not a horrible first date.

That sounds like one of those things that dating experts like to say but have never actually implemented themselves. If they had, they’d know why that’s a counter-intuitive approach to dating. Why should someone go through all the motions to prepare for and arrive at a date just for 45 minutes? Not only that, but how does placing a time limit on the date not make your date feel like they’re under a microscope?

I’ve always found that the people who go into dates with these sort of disclaimers and limitations are already half-way to not interested. When people say things like, “Who knows…you might not think I’m your type” or “Why don’t we plan to do XYZ..just in case things don’t work out” they’re really saying, “I’m on the fence.” They’re telling you without telling you that they’re not sure or that they’ve had their share of awkward first dates. They are not complimenting you or being self-deprecating. They are warning you that there’s a real possibility there won’t be a mutual interest. Gee. Sign me up! This sort of strategy is actually quite telling and reflects poorly on the person setting up the rigid time frame of the date.

After doing online dating for a certain amount of time, a person should have developed the social skills necessary to navigate a first date without clicking some imaginary stop watch. They should also be able to learn how to tell if they’re truly interested in someone based on a profile. People should go out with people whom they are genuinely excited to meet. Not just anybody who shows interest. That’s why people get so burnt out on online dating. Stop being afraid to go with it. That is just a sign that you don’t trust yourself and your decisions. Go into a date confident in your choices and you won’t have anything to worry about.

I wouldn’t bother meeting anyone who put this sort of disclaimer on a date. And if someone abruptly put an end to a date – without warning -  that seemed to be going well, I’d be annoyed. Not intrigued. Nobody likes the idea of being bookended between appointments or rushed through their cocktail.  That would cast a shadow on the whole experience.

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Filed Under: Dating & Communicating, First Date Etiquette, first date ideas, First Date Jitters, First Impressions, Online Dating, Servicey! Tagged With: , , , , , , , ,

First Date Protocol: What Do You Do When You’re Not Attracted To Them?

January 11, 2013 by 11 Comments

About 4 months ago I met a guy from OKCupid.

I knew the moment he showed up at the bar that I wasn’t attracted to him. I just knew it. This was a rare occurrence for me. In the last 2 years, I have not had one date that didn’t turn into a second/third/fourth/etc date, a request for a second date, a short-term relationship, or..whatever. In the two or three instances where none of that occurred it was because I was the one doing the rejecting. So there I sat with my mojito, looking at his watch, wondering when was the appropriate time to tell him I didn’t feel any magic.

About 20 minutes in he took the menu and started looking it over trying to decide what to order. I couldn’t let him do that. Not only was I not going to let him spend money unnecessarily, I also didn’t want to sit there not eating while he ate or somehow mentally trying to rush him through his meal. So I just came out with it. Ripped that band aid right off. We made it to the 45 minute mark and we said our good byes.

That was the first time in a long time I had to do that. The one other time was with a guy about 2 years earlier. This was a date clear cut “casual” date. The date was designed to determine physical chemistry. I knew going into that date that I wasn’t 100% on board with hooking up with him. When we met I knew it was a no go. The problem? I sensed he was kind of…volatile. Again, I did not let the date progress beyond pleasantries and a cocktail. As expected I was met with a tongue lashing that lasted into the next day. Even when I emailed him to apologize if he felt I had wasted his time, I was met with a barrage of insults.

It’s a tricky situation, right? You show up and, upon meeting someone and giving them that warm hug, you just…know. You know that they’re disappointed or not feeling it. When I was heavier, I got that tweak on almost every date. I would sit there and literally feel the guy trying to accumulate enough minutes before he could say good bye. There was one date that so stuck out in my mind that, when the same guy from the date rated me highly on OKC  a few months ago, I replied to him and told him what an unpleasant experience it was to meet him the first time around. I should have been flattered that he didn’t recognize me, etc. I know. I couldn’t help it.

I’ve never sat there and tried to make myself be attracted to someone. It’s either there or it’s not. I never felt a need to give it time to see if the attraction would materialize. As someone here has said before, who wants to be with someone that has to be convinced to want to see them again?

In an ideal situation neither of you are feeling it. Then you can get through one drink and skeedaddle. Then there’s Scenario B. That’s when you know you’re date is feeling it and you aren’t. Those are the sticky ones. There are, of course, two ways to handle it. You either smile through it and say nothing misleading. Then when you get the email suggesting another date you simply say that you didn’t think you and they were a match. Or you just tell them after the first round that things won’t be progressing, etc. Neither are especially pleasant. I suppose telling someone face to face is a little harsh and uncomfortable. I’d rather do that than allow them to think things are headed a certain way and then blindside them.

How do you handle this sort of thing? Do you know right away? Do you try to wait and see if the attraction will build? Do you leave?

How have you handled it when you’ve been the one who was dismissed?

Would you ever tell someone flat out that you weren’t physically attracted to them? Or do you lie?

 

 

 

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Filed Under: After The First Date, Awkward, Dating, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Date Sex, First Impressions, Online Dating, Sex, sexuality

Does How He Asks You Out & How Much He Spends Really Matter?

October 16, 2012 by 24 Comments

Yesterday one of my favorite dating-related columnists, Mandy , wrote an article for XOJane entitled, How to Ask Out a Woman if You Really Like Her, and Also How to F the S Out Of Her Brains.

2. Here’s the magic formula to ask a woman out.

Do a firm, decisive ask. Not, “We should get a drink sometime.” If you are a guy who makes a woman ask you out, there’s something fucking wrong with you. Love and light and all, but that often means you have serious commitment and decision-making issues. If a commitment to a single time and date and location for dinner is too much to handle? Oh, boy.

I also get turned off by the request for just drinks. Like, dude. Invest $100. If you actually like her, fucking do it. So here’s how:

“Hey [Woman], I’d love to take you to dinner on [Specific Date and Time Next Week] at [Specific Nice Restaurant Where You Will Then Make a Reservation]. Does that work for you?” Specific. This is a major panty-peeler.

Confidence. Knowing who you are. Being able to ask a woman to dinner. THIS IS HOT. Shows you are going places! You know yourself! You are a man of action! You are getting shit done! You are your highest self! Hooray for YOU, dude! If she says no? Whatever. On to the next one, you know?

Personally, I don’t give a hoot how a man asks me out. In the past year or so I’ve met men both offline and on, and the invitations are always the same.

“We should get a drink.”

Yes. Yes we should. I don’t care who does the choosing or how the invitation is worded or whether they text or call. (Christ on a pony, can we get past that one, too?) The build up doesn’t matter to me. What transpires on the date does. I prefer drink dates because I like to have a cocktail or two or three. I like stuffing one dollar bills into music players mounted on walls and listening to old music. I like sitting at a bar and having a guy inch his stool closer and closer to me. I also really, really enjoy make out sessions (yes, sometimes even in said bar)  that are infused with a heady buzz from Blue Moons or Shiraz.  If I want to dress up, I’ll dress up. I don’t mind if I’m over dressed. The pre-date getting ready is fun for me. I enjoy it. It gives me an excuse to get my hair blown out and a new manicure and drink a glass of wine and play Madonna really, really loudly.

If a guy is dating online and he’s relatively attractive and socially skilled he’s getting at least a couple of dates a week. That can get expensive. That’s why most men suggest the simple drinks date. Most of my guys friends easily spend $75-$100 or more on first dates. They take their dates to trendy lounges. They’re not scouring Yelp for cheap happy hours or clipping coupons.  PS? No coupons or gift certificates on a first date. Ever. Also put a moratorium on scouting out happy hour specials. Bad first date idea. The drinks will be watered down and you’ll look cheap.

I understand the desire to have a “grown up” date. One where you meet cute and flirt and bat your eyes and giggle until he asks you to dinner. Everything goes perfectly well on the date. It ends with the guy walking you to your door and kissing you on the forehead good night. Then he tells you he had a great time. Yes, that is a sweet notion. It’s just not realistic.

In Manhattan, plenty of men will walk a woman to the subway or to her apartment building strictly to see if she’ll invite him up. I always chuckle inside when guys offer to walk me home or “see me home” under the guise of being polite. (Though my friend M. always walks me home after we go for drinks and he has no interest in sleeping with me, so I might be rushing to judgement on this one.) The ones I feel are genuine or the ones I think I might want to invite upstairs win that honor. The rest? I just wave my Metro Card and tell them I’ll be fine and thank them for the nice night. If the guys aren’t interested, the woman is lucky to have him walk her to the curb to get a cab. The ones just in it for sex don’t even try to pretend to be chivalrous.

Not every date is going to resemble your favorite Rom Com. And that’s okay.  People are busy. Many of us are juggling dates. It’s hard to be “special” when you’re date number two that week. That’s not romantic, I know. But that’s how things are now. We’re usernames from a dating site or an avatar on Twitter or Facebook. We are a number.  Dating has, to some degree, become a little impersonal. That’s why you shouldn’t take stuff like this personally.

It doesn’t have to be all about you in order for it to be a good  date. You can make it a great date all on your own just by being present and enjoying it.

 

 

 

 

 

Photo Credit

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Date Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

The Real Reason Men Should Pay The Tab On A First Date

September 25, 2012 by 145 Comments

Name: Kevin
Age: 43
State: NJ
Question: After a year of online dating I have decided the best first dates are coffee dates because of the low cost and casual, quiet atmosphere. There is one place in particular that I try to meet my first dates at. Every time I suggest it, they never heard of it but they always tell me upon arrival it is such a cute place and love the atmosphere. It looks like the set of Friends with cozy tables/chairs and couches.

The problem is that this coffee place has desserts and serves food. When the wait staff brings the menu, the coffee,teas,desserts are on the same menu as the flat bread sandwiches and other foods they serve. The ladies act pleasantly surprised they have such good food selections and then want to order the food. That surprises me because when we make plans, I suggest coffee/tea and never mention food.

When they mention they want to try the grilled chicken panini or spinach dip with bread, I feel like I am put on the spot. Not every girl does this, but enough of them do to prompt me to write.  My choices are to go along with it and take it in stride or object. I have never objected. Of course I will follow suit and order something to eat too since it would feel awkward if she ate and I watched her. I think their intention is to meet for coffee but when they see the menu perhaps they think food is fair game? My plans for a low cost first coffee date turns into a more moderate $35 date. Not expensive but certainly not the intended $10 cost I was counting upon. After a year of online dating, I know it is a fool’s game to spend anything more than 10 bucks on a first meeting due to the uncertainty of first date outcomes.

Some of these dates went on to 2nd and 3rd dates and sometimes more so the initial investment was well worth it in the end for me with those women. But some went the route of 1st date failure with the no chemistry reasoning or disappearing act.  I wonder why many ladies feel it is OK to ask or suggest the food when the menu is brought to us when the whole point of being there in the first place was just  coffee.  It seems my only options are to object at the meal ordering (and kill the chances of a successful date), go along with it (increase the chances of a successful date like I have done) or not bring them there at all. The last option would be a shame because the place is just that good.  Can you give me your thoughts on this? Thank you.

 

The appropriate protocol for a first date, especially a first meet up from an online date, is to stick to the plan. If the plan is to meet “for drinks” then nobody should assume that it’s okay to upgrade. Eat before the date. It’s rude to show up for a pre-arranged cocktail/coffee date and then take it upon yourself to upgrade. If you are hungry, then you should make it clear to your date that you plan on covering your share of the tab for that order. Stick to the plan.

If you don’t want to get bamboozled into paying more than $10 for a date, then find a place that doesn’t offer food. If it is that big of a deal for you then don’t put yourself in a situation to have to break your piggy bank open and spend a whole $35.

As much as I loathe people who take advantage in situations like this, I find it unfortunate that you’re one of those “I refuse to spend more than $10 on a date” guys. You must have heard that from another guy or on some forum somewhere. Allow me to womansplain something to you…never take dating advice from guys who gather on the internet to trash woman and dating. The whole reason they are there is because they haven’t had much luck. Ergo, their advice is tainted and they don’t actually want you to succeed. They will use you as a soldier to carry out their desire to hurt women.

Breaking….dating isn’t cheap. Nobody can successfully date when they decide that they are going to be one of the “smart” people and not spend more than $10 on a date. Plus, unless you don’t drink alcohol, coffee dates are lame. There. I said it. The settings of places like that are not conducive to creating the right environment. Those places are loud and have a slew of laptop hobos (TM Gawker) hovering around. Those types of dates are stiff and unpleasant.

It’s fine to say that you’re not going to spend more than X amount on a date. Nobody is saying you need to spend $100 on a date. But you should be willing to fork over more than the equivalent of an 8 year old’s allowance. I understand how frustrating it can be to hand over $50-$75 a date to have nothing come of it. But that’s dating. You win some, you lose some. If you walk into every date with the mindset that you refuse to be played or taken advantage of, you’re sabotaging your chances of success. You will never revolutionize the dating game with your little Ten Dollar Test. Trust me.

You need to change your approach. Your first dates should be at a modestly priced bar. Don’t take a menu if offered. That should be a clue to the woman that you don’t plan on eating or footing a bill beyond what you originally agreed. If she doesn’t follow your lead, then let her order whatever. If you like her and want to see her again, pay the bill. If you don’t, slide that check right over to her side and put down a $20. Don’t blink an eye or worry what she’ll think of you. Who cares? You’ll never see her again.

The true problem here is that you care way too much what these women think. They don’t appear to show the same concern, do they? If you don’t like her, don’t pay for her. If you do, pay. It’s simple. If she’s a smart woman, she’ll know that she needs to demonstrate her appreciation with a genuine offer to help pay the bill or an offer to cover what she ordered. If she’s not and she expects guys to just foot the bill because they’re the man, then that’s why they’re single in the first place. They will go out with guys who pay the tab every time and delude themselves into believing that the guy does that because he really likes them. Um..not necessarily. $100/$200 per date is nothing to a lot of men.  If a woman refuses to reach into her pocket date after date, I can assure you that there is a really good chance that she will end up sleeping with that guy and then never hear from him again. If a guy doesn’t see that offer or see any true reciprocation on the first few dates, he checks out emotionally and mentally. It then becomes about getting a return on his investment. You do it to yourselves, ladies.

Just like men can spot the “I won’t sleep with a guy until we’re exclusive because I’ve been pumped and dumped over and over” women, women can spot the “I won’t pay much for a date because I go after women way out of my league and get used” men. Really, we’re on to you. We know what you’re doing with the coffee date idea. That’s probably a reason why so many of these women take it upon themselves to order from the menu. You’re telling women, with your decision to take them to Central Perk, that you’re someone who gets taken advantage of.That’s usually what happens with these kinds of tests. They back fire. A lot.

You could also maybe cut back on the number of dates you go on in any given time frame. You don’t have to meet anybody who shows interest, you know. You are allowed to filter people out. Your pool will not dry up. Part of the problem here is that you appear to have bad taste in women.

I agree with you that it’s rude of these women to make these assumptions. The upside is that this a great way to get a glimpse of the woman’s beliefs and expectations. But to whine about it just makes you seem weak. Dating costs money. Women like to feel desired and appreciated and, unfortunately, use how much a man spends as a barometer for how interested he is. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and go with it.

 

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Dating, Dating & Finances, First Date Etiquette, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,

Guest Post – Why Dating is not Therapy

September 14, 2012 by 3 Comments

Let me ask you a question. Men want to meet singles and do whatever they can to get that date.  So, why is it that after all the efforts a guy puts into securing this date, they manage to ruin it pretty much right away? They arrive on the date and talk for a good proportion of the time about their ex-girlfriend and how women don’t understand him.

This has to be one of the biggest no no’s on a first date but guys keep doing it time and time again. Sure there is a time and place to talk about ‘history’ but the first date isn’t it. Most guys think they are being vulnerable and show that they are in touch with their feminine side by talking about their ex. What they are actually saying is:

  • That they turn into an emotional wreck when things go wrong
  • That they are not over their previous relationship
  • That they blame others for the situations life has put them in
  • That they have baggage and “unfinished business”
  • That they are not that into you
  • That you might just be the rebound

This may not actually be the case at all, but by talking about their ex on a date as if they were in a therapy session men are reinforcing these ideas. You need to remember that the person sitting opposite you only have what you say to form their opinions on you. Let’s face it, any of the mentioned issues above are enough for a smart girl to get herself together and excuse herself from the date. Clearly not the desired result you want?

Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t be yourself. Of course you should. Being yourself got you the date remember, but it’s important to also remember that your ex is an ex for a reason. Things didn’t work out. Do you really want to waste time on a date talking about them? You need to guide the conversation on a date to the best version of you. Intrigue her and allow her through great conversation to discover all there is to know about you. No need to lay it all out in the first thirty minutes.

 

Singles Warehouse is the largest online dating magazine on the web bringing you the best news, online dating tips and best dating writers direct to you.  What’s more we’re the fastest growing UK and USA dating website.  So if you’re looking for love look no further.

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Filed Under: First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Impressions, Guest Post Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

First Date Second Guessing

August 26, 2012 by 23 Comments

Name: Roo
Age: 39
State: NYC
Question:  Had a date Friday with a woman from Match. We met for drinks then went to a comedy show and then had another drink after. It was getting late and I had to get home to walk my dog. I suggested she come back to my place with me and we could get my dog and walk her together. We get to my place and my date says she’s tired. I say she can crash at my place if she wants and that I’d walk my dog by myself and she could go to bed. I was gone about 15-20 minutes when she called me asking when I’d be back. I returned to my place about 10 minutes later.* When I got home my date told me she was going to go home because she didn’t feel right staying over after the first date. She said “we could do that on the second date.” I’m trying to figure out what happened and whether I should contact her again for a second date. Thanks.

*Edited – The OP emailed me and said he checked his phone to see when she called him. He said he wasn’t gone longer than 20-25 minutes  AND that the woman in question is a dog owner herself.

What happened was that she changed her mind. You know that. The true question is why. The most probable answer is that she felt staying over on the first date was a bad move. What she failed to consider was that changing her mind and leaving after she agreed to stay over is the real bad move here. She didn’t have to have sex with you or fool around. She could have just slept there. If you were a dick about her not wanting to have sex then she’d have her answer and would waste no further time. Instead she sat in your apartment and analyzed the situation to death. She probably texted her friends, too, telling them the haps. Giiirrrl, go home now. He won’t respect you!

OR…

She wasn’t terribly interested in the first place and took advantage of the window of opportunity you provided for her by leaving her alone in your apartment.

OR..

She snooped around your apartment while you were gone and saw something that turned her off/scared her/made her think you have a girlfriend or are otherwise disingenuous.

OR…

She felt sick, got her period or felt she was too tipsy to sleep over.

I’m leaning towards the likelihood that she either over-analyzed the situation or found something in your apartment that turned her off. I can remember the first time I saw the apartment of a man I was dating. In his kitchen were an array of plastic, multi-colored steak knives hung on a decorative rack on the wall. He said that he used to keep regular steel steak knives there, but took them down after one woman he dated saw them, freaked out and left. The first time I stayed over, he said I was “free to look through his medicine cabinet.” Another woman he dated did that and found his Ambien prescription, which then led to an inquiry about why he was taking it, what else was he on, where there is smoke there’s fire, etc. My point is that people will create a back story if it suits them.

Oh, something else you shouldn’t do? You shouldn’t leave strangers alone in your apartment. You’re mighty trusting. While I don’t think she’d steal anything, she’s still likely to totally violate your privacy by snooping. Her rationalization would be that she was making sure you weren’t a serial killer instead of, like, just not going home with you. Leave a woman to her own devices and she will create a story in her head of how things will play out. It becomes a Choose Your On Adventure exercise, with multiple endings. Sadly, most women choose the wrong ending.

I’m not sure what is so magical about the second date other than it’s not the dreaded first date. Another illogical rationalization. First date sex is a bad move. Second date sex is totally better. If she knows she’d be comfortable after 2 dates, then why wait to stay over? Forget it. That’s a rhetorical question. I know the answer – because she’s immature.

Should you call ask her out again? Go ahead. Personally, this sort if behavior would turn me off completely. She didn’t own her choice. She is still dating by antiquated rules created by self-sabotaging women. Plus she kinda nagged you as to your whereabouts. After a first date. You’re a 39  year old man in Manhattan. There are plenty of other women to date. This has already stalled a bit. Now you’re going to have to “prove” you’re not just out to have sex with her.Your choice, though.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

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Filed Under: After The First Date, Awkward, Date Like a Man, Dating, First Date Etiquette, First Date Jitters, First Date Sex, Hook Up Culture, Sex, sexuality, Snooping Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

The Meek Shall Not Inherit My Vagina

July 26, 2012 by 40 Comments

Several months back, I emailed a guy on OKCupid. We exchanged about 3 messages,most of which revolved around our thoughts on the site and online dating in general. Since I don’t do the extended email exchange thing, I responded to his last email by saying, “So, Mr. Username. What’s our next move?”

I was giving him the green light. I awaited his email response with a suggestion of when to meet. Instead I got this:

“Ha well what would you like? And what kind of guy are you attracted to physically?”

Wrong answer. For starters, I emailed him. Ergo, I must have found him physically attractive. I get a question like that and I wonder why it’s being asked. To me, that’s a bad sign. Like maybe he no longer looks like his photos. Or that he’s insecure and needs coddling. Whatever it was, he was stalling.  The moment I sense that, I bail. Of course, within 20 minutes, I had another message from him asking if he had scared me off. I replied and told him that all the questions were giving me pause and that I prefer more assertive men.

He replied assuring me that he was confident and assertive when need be. But, see, what he didn’t do was show me how confident he was. Remember, online dating is about showing. Not telling. That was his opportunity to seize the moment and suggest a certain night when we could meet for a drink. Instead he offered a series of excuses. I didn’t reply. He then emailed me again saying, “Oh well. Guess you’re not interested. If you change your mind you know where to find me.”

Block.

Three strikes and you’re out. Between the multiple follow up messages and strange questions, this guy made it abundantly clear he was ambivalent. Maybe even not terribly interested. Either way, I punched out.

Some will say, and I see their point, that I could have asked him out. But, much like some of you red pillers, I have my own filters. I open the door. If he walks in, then that’s a sign he’s confident and, hopefully, will be easy to deal with. It also indicates a level of genuine interest. If he stalls, as this guy did, that means he needs cajoling or is hesitant for some reason. Not for me. While submissiveness has a time and place, passivity does not. I also threw away my tap shoes, which means I don’t feel a need to perform for some stranger. Meet me or don’t. Just don’t waste my time.

Many will say that I was quick to judge. Yup. Welcome to online dating in 2012. Where everybody judges swiftly and harshly and there are no second chances.Whether this is accurate or not, we all believe we have plenty of options. Granted, many of us have fewer than we realize. But you are never going to convince someone that they aren’t as great of a catch as they think they are. So don’t bother.

This is why messages that simply say, “Hi” get ignored by most women. ( Unless the guy is hot, of course. Then his two character greeting is considered succinct and direct. That’s sexy. The truth is that many people have these arbitrary rules and guidelines that, in the end, mean and prevent us from nothing. They don’t actually work. We just think they do.) It’s not that we all need to feel inordinately special, though many do. We want to meet people that seem like they want to meet us.

I assume that men are communicating with multiple women at any given time. But I don’t want to know it. But that’s how the whole “let’s throw this against the wall and see what sticks” attitude conveyed in exchanges and messages like the ones discussed here come across. Aimless. Random. I’m happy to show interest , but it has to be mutual.

There’s a line between pursuing someone and chasing them.

Nobody wants to have to chase.

 

 

 

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating is Fun, First Date Etiquette, First Impressions, It's Him, Manly Man, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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