You are here: Home / Archives for Gender Roles

READER RANT: When a Woman Says She’s “Traditional” What Does That Really Mean?

April 16, 2013 by 55 Comments

Name: PhilI-know-that-feel-bro-blank
Age: 29
City: New York
State: NY
Comment: I’m one of the many on this site (as it seems) who has been enjoying (or not at times) what it’s like to be somewhat young, single and in NYC.   Overall, I’d have to say I’ve enjoyed my dating life in this city.  Sure, there are some people who have burned me and, yes, I’ve had to had some nights spending money on weirdos and/or people who are socially off but that just comes with the territory.  I’m thankfully not bitter about the whole process.

I’ve noticed something consistent about a lot of women (particularly the older ones, age 28 and up).   I was wondering if you also come across this in your day-to-day relationship/dating advice giving.  Many women I encounter like to claim they are “traditional” in that they need the man to make the first move, set up the date, initiate conversation, etc.   While I used to accept this, it now seems that “being traditional” is more of an excuse people use when they want the other person (i.e. the man) to do all the heavy lifting in the beginning.  To me, it essentially says something along the lines of:  “You must bend over backwards and prove your worth to me and, should I deem you acceptable, I suppose I will start putting in a little effort of my own.”  In fact, a girl was telling me she was traditional last night and I said, jokingly, “Oh, so, you need the guy to do the heavy lifting right?”  Without missing a beat she said, dead seriously, “Yes, exactly.”

I really wonder if this is the reason why many women find dating in this city to be so hard.   Sure, I realize there are plenty of pump-and-dump guys out there and, hey, I’ve been guilty of doing that as well.  However, I think a lot of men (myself included) get to an age where we’re just too exhausted to chase someone down.  Perhaps I suffer from my own arrogance in that I don’t want to convince anyone they have to like me but, is it really out of line to ask women to put forward SOME effort at the beginning and not continually fall back on “being traditional” as an excuse for just being romantically lazy?

 

Thoughts?

Share
Filed Under: Gender Roles, Reader Rant, Understanding Women, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

True or False: A Woman Can Get Laid Whenever She Wants

February 18, 2013 by 76 Comments

On the topic of women who seek casual/nsa/non-monogamous sex/relationships, G. writes:

“I’d say there are two assumptions:  one is that a woman, no matter what she says, is always “looking” for a more-than-sexual relationship should one present itself and two, as you said, is that a woman can get “just sex” pretty much anytime she wants, without much effort.  So, a woman who seeks “causal sex” or selects it on her profile is suspect.” – G. , Male, 37, NYC

Thoughts?

I think there is some truth to this. However, I think the men who might see these women as suspect probably would have eventually rejected them anyway. If they can’t take a woman’s choice to seek casual sex at face value then that speaks to their pre-conceived ideas about women in general. Seeking sex in some form is merely an outlier of the woman’s personality and belief system. These women would not be compatible with a man who felt she should keep certain carnal desires to herself. Or these guys have a general mistrust of women. Either way, why bother with such men?

Yes, it’s pretty easily to just get sex if that’s what you want. But it’s even easier if you use online dating. Sure, a woman could go out to a party or a bar if she liked. But what if she can’t be bothered to do that? What if she doesn’t have that kind of time or money? What’s wrong with optimizing her online dating experience by using it to find sex? I’m guessing the issue is it’s because she’s being overt about it. See my previous point.

I do agree that “just sex” to men and “just sex” to women is often different. A lot of men are less discerning. As we said last week, for many men attraction isn’t even necessary. I don’t know if many women share that opinion or experience. For some men, “casual ” just means available. When some woman seek “casual” they also often seeks consistency and a sense of companionship or just rapport. But they can want those other aspects without wanting commitment. I guess the segment of men who believe that is just small?

I’m curious to hear what others think about G’s quote.

 

 

 

 

 

Share
Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Friends With Benefits, Gender Roles, Hook Up Culture, Sex, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

If He’s The Type To Think You’re Easy, He’s Not Worth It

December 22, 2012 by 13 Comments

Name: Heather
Age: 34
State: California
Question: This is more of a “request” for discussion than a dating question, as you already posted a dating question for me this week, so I feel a bit rude posting in here twice.

I like what you said to me on Twitter:  “If he’s the type to think you’re easy, he’s still going to end up being a douche.”

Notice the progression of events here:

1) Guy X thinks you’re easy (WHORE), therefore..
2) Guy X treats you like crap.

This makes me want to reverse the whole thing (can you tell by now that I’m a PhD student studying rhetoric?)

1) Guy X thinks that you only sleep with Special Boyfriends (VIRGIN), therefore…
2) Guy X treats you like a Goddess.

Notice that in both scenarios, Guy X has the option to judge the woman and change his behavior based on that judgment. The woman, of course, has no power whatsoever.

I’m sure that’s not what you intended, but it does raise a fascinating issue for what I’m dealing with right now in the dating world:

I have a high sex drive. Very, very high. I enact it not only by being “easy” but also by being very giving, enthusiastic, and active in the bedroom. I tend to be pretty horny most of the time.

Sometimes I like to try to “land” a boyfriend who (hopefully) also has a high sex drive, but more often than not I like to sleep around. As you know, OKC and POF make this stupidly easy for most women to accomplish. So I’ve had eight different casual sex partners since March. Always with no expectation of romance or a relationship, but occasionally the guys insist. Seriously I think some men need dinner and a movie to get in the mood :)

Anywhoo, I’m now to a point where I’m “sated” and ready to settle down with a boyfriend. I have a viable candidate in mind, and I’ve already told him that I haven’t had sex since February… because that was the last time I was in a committed long term relationship.

The thing of it is, I don’t like that I have to lie about this. I hate the Virgin/Whore dichotomy, and I hate that I’m buying into it by lying to this guy. But you said it yourself – a woman can’t be considered “easy” by a man.

I’ve never met a man who was willing to treat a woman with respect once he knew that she had been promiscuous in the past. And yet if a guy tells me that he had a bunch of casual sex a couple months ago, but now is looking for something committed, I would be happy to treat him with respect, and I would applaud his decision.

Is there any way out of this “judgment” trap that society set for us 4000 years ago? Or are we forced to play this game? I’m interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for your time,
Heather

Before my friend left to go home for the holidays, we cracked open a bottle of wine and had the “So, what has your OKC experience been like?” talk. We weren’t comparing numbers as much as we were comparing notes. He shared that, in the handful of months he’d been on that site, all of the women he went out with a second time had either had sex with him on the first date or on the second date. (I didn’t ask how many here were. That wasn’t the point of the exercise.) The ones who waited for the second date all did the “you’re not coming home with me tonight” thing that many women like to do. They wouldn’t sleep with him on the first date because first date sex, in their mind, was “bad.” They waited until the second date because, most likely, they rationalized that if a guy sticks around after one date with no sex then he must be truly interested.

What they don’t understand is that if a man is the type to consider a woman easy for enjoying her sexuality, one date isn’t going to matter. These guys want the woman to wait a long time so that they (the men) don’t have to fear that they are just one of many. That has nothing to do with gauging the woman’s virtue. That is all about massaging the man’s ego.

What women don’t understand is that men know what we’re thinking. They know we’re afraid of being considered “slutty.” Like anything else, they go along with our rationalizations and explanations knowing that we’ll eventually put out. These men understand that were merely trying to buy ourselves time so we don’t look “slutty.” As I pointed out to my friend, these women  – the ones who justify or qualify when they decide to have sex – usually go on to be far more trouble than they’re worth. Rather than own their own decisions and manage expectations, they project all of their insecurity onto the guy until things eventually implode.

I think that in the beginning of a relationship, both people need to keep their sexual history to themselves. Personally, I don’t find a man’s sexually history threatening. If my guy told me he had had a series of one night stands before we met, I wouldn’t care. I don’t want to know what he does after that point, of course. But hearing what happened before doesn’t faze me. I think a lot of this really depends on how the information is being shared. There’s something unseemly about a man or woman who brags about all the sex they have. It casts a rather sad light on the person doing the bragging. What’s funny is that if this information is shared publicly, like say on Twitter or a blog, the results are polar opposite depending on the braggarts gender.

A man can blog about all the sex he has and women will still want to be with him and try to date him seriously. Why? Because they like the idea of taming the beast and one upping the women who came before them. A woman, however, could not get away with it. She reeks of insecurity and sadness and ends up being passed around by various brahs who can’t be bothered to actually ask her out. Instead, she might get the last minute or late invite for drinks. She is considered a final option should no others arise. This is where things differ. A man can share his number and the woman will pretend to be intimidated or shocked, but she’s actually pleased that she’s found a man with so much experience. A woman could share her number and the man could be turned off. All of this hinges upon the security level of each person, of course. This is why I don’t advocate that these conversations be had. Ever.Frankly, I find the idea of counting or keeping track of lovers to be juvenile.

The only way out of this judgment trap is either to say nothing and never have this talk, lie or to only date men who have matured beyond the Madonna/Whore ideology. (Those men do exist, by the way. ) There is no logical explanation for why we even need to know about their sexual history beyond their last few test results. Numbers are inconsequential. We really aren’t entitled to know any of that. Whatever happened before you got with one partner should stay in the past out of respect for your partner. A story here or there isn’t an issue. More than that and you’re delving into “baggage” territory.

Share
Filed Under: Dating, First Date Sex, Game, Gender Roles, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Even If He Pays For Everything, What Does That Prove?

November 28, 2012 by 69 Comments

Even though my lower jaw is throbbing because apparently I’m 14 with braces and my teeth are shifting, I figured I’d cause myself more angst by making these comments into a post. Who pays? Yay!

Hey guys – just curious – how much / how often do you want a woman to pay for dates once you’re past the first date? Like, what do you consider ideal? – K

For me, it depends on the woman’s finances. The primary thing is to be appreciative and not to act like you expect to be paid for. You should always sincerely offer to pay on the first few dates. Accept his response graciously. I’d say after 4-5 dates, you should intend to pay and demonstrate that by actually paying, not merely “offering” to pay or contribute. Even if he says “no, I insist,” you get the check and PAY. And, don’t buy him a slice of pizza and think you’ve discharged your end if he’s blowing hundreds on your dates. To me, that is where the rubber hits the road as they say.

Once you are dating regularly, it all depends on relative finances but if he’s doing most of the paying you need to do the above every once in a (short) while. Really, just be a human being and don’t take advantage of people. Or, accept the consequences. – DMN

How about if she makes more than you? Or, you’re pretty sure she does? Do you want her to be paying equally for things if you make about the same, and paying more for things if she makes more? Or does the guy always pay more, but the woman should contribute some too? – K

I don’t put any thought into the paying thing. I just do it. If the bill comes and he’s in the restroom,I pay it. If he pays the tab, then the next morning I go out and buy coffee and breakfast. If we agree to go to the movies I buy tix and he just naturally buys the snacks. There’s no discussion about it or hemming and hawing. I just expect to pay my share. If he insists, I make sure to cover something….a cab or another round of drinks. I just don’t even think about this stuff. If I go out, I pay my way. That’s it. I don’t understand all the thought that women put into this topic. Just pay. Take turns. In the end, why does it matter? What does it prove? – ATWYS

 

Thoughts?

 

Share
Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Finances, Gender Roles, Girlfriends & Sabotage Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Where Are All The Financially Secure & Well Educated Single Men?

November 11, 2012 by 61 Comments

Name: Diane
Age: 40
State: TX
Question: I’m new to the dating world as I settled down with my high school bf, married(20+ yrs) and had children early. I’m newly divorced with very little dating experience. Where can I meet men who are professional, educated, and financially stable? I’ve seemingly only met men who are handsome, much younger,employed(mediocre income) but whose conversation is nothing but sexual. How and where can I attract the men I would like to seriously date?

PS. I’m currently pursing my PhD., I am a assistant college technology professor,financially independent,I have one child at home and 2 at college, I am tall, fit, healthy, African American woman, and told I look younger than my age.

 

Given the strikes you have against you (age, divorced, children) you need to focus on the divorced Dad market.They are more likely to understand your schedule and priorities. As for the younger dudes talking sexually, again, this is common place. Everybody attract those guys. You have to learn to ignore them. Most of them are hitting you up because of your age and because you’re single and divorced. Basically, they think you’re hard up. I’d guess the rest of them are contacting you because they’re just throwing anything at the wall to see what sticks.

I’m curious to read some of these “sexual” comments. I’d bet many of them aren’t actually sexual. They’re just overly flirtatious. That, too, is typical with men we meet online and off. They’re coming on strong because they think you’ll be flattered by it.

Evan Marc Katz had a post that touched on one woman’s similar concern.

I was at a speed dating event last night for the second time. Just like the first time, it was full of smart, pretty, successful women in their thirties and forties and men of similar ages with manual labor jobs (and a few running their own manual labor businesses) but no men of equivalent professional or educational status except for one doctor. Why he was there, I do not know, as he made it clear that he was not really looking to date anyone. He did however buy me a drink in the bar afterwards and asked me what I thought of the event. I said I would be unlikely to go again because I have nothing in common to talk about with the men that I have met at these events.

He proceeded to give me a lecture as to why I shouldn’t automatically dismiss dating the two guys who were responsible for service washes in the launderette as they may be perfectly nice people and that career women in their thirties get what they deserve if they don’t. I am just wondering how many other men think like this?

 

This will seem a bit brutal, but your days of requiring that a guy be professional, educated and financially stable are behind you. Honey, that is a younger woman’s domain.  It’s totally acceptable and understandable that those things would be important to you. But the men in our age bracket who are well educated and financially secure either aren’t looking to commit or are dating younger because they prefer to and because they can. If financial security and intellectual stimulation were that important to you then you should have stayed married. But since you also wanted companionship, that likely wasn’t an option. That’s the trade off when anybody – male or female – gets divorced. You tried it. It didn’t work. Now you want lightening to strike twice.

The only way that will happen for you is if you let go of any preconceived ideas of how things are supposed to be. We are living in very different times now. Fewer men are graduating from college and more men are working trade or labor jobs for the security and benefits. Men are being let go from their jobs left and right.

A job is a job. As long as the guy isn’t looking to live off of you completely, you really aren’t in a position to be so choosey. You’re having trouble meeting these unicorns because there are fewer and fewer of them out there. If you’re going to insist upon placing income bracket and education at the top of your list, accept that you will be one of a few that such a man dates. Know why they do that?

Because they can. Because they are in demand and they know it. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. The doctor in that story above can afford to be picky. (Make special note of the fact that he was surrounded by well educated and professional women and wanted none of them.)

OP, a man’s income or education shouldn’t be your focus. What should matter is that they can support themselves and their children if they have any. If you’re you’re looking for an intellectual equal, see above. Read. Repeat. Join a book club. You’ll hear a lot of woman say that my words simply aren’t true and they’re negative, etc. Blah blah blah. They’re in the same boat. Of course they’ll find these words harsh.

Men are everywhere. If you want to meet a specific type of guy, say well educated, then you need to join specialty groups and organizations that cater to such a crowd. Alumni events are a good start. If you want the higher end guy, you’ll have to pay for it. Charity events, wine tastings, etc. Just know that there will be some stiff competition for the attention and affection of those men.

The problem isn’t that you don’t know where to meet them. It’s that there aren’t many out there. So you can either:

1. Hold out for the guy who meets all of your qualifications.

2. Date a man with those qualifications without commitment.

3. Date men who might not fit your ideal.

4. Stay single. Which isn’t such a bad thing.

At the end of my step-mom’s funeral, we (the immediate family) all had to walk in a processional line out of the church. One by one my step-brothers and their wives/fiances walked down the aisle. Then my sisters and their husbands. I immediately got up from the pew and proceeded down the aisle alone. Behind me were my two sisters. It was the one who lost her husband and the one who is single. My sister who is single hated the idea of walking down that aisle alone. In fact, in a meeting we had with a family lawyer this week, the issue of how she was single with no husband or children came up as we were discussing various properties that my Dad owned. My father had bought her a condo “because he wanted her taken care of.” That’s where she lives. I’m pretty sure she hates the idea of growing old alone. Especially now with all of our parents – mother, father, step-mother – gone. This all has hit her especially hard. When she drove me to the train station, she said that she dreaded going home because she was going to have to deal with the whole coming down process by herself. That stuff never occurred to me. It didn’t even cross my mind that I’d be heading down that aisle alone. But for my sister, it was something she dreaded.

I guess what I’m getting around to asking is why being single seems so unappealing to some people? I totally get the idea of wanting someone to grow old with. I also understand wanting to build a life with someone. There are obvious benefits to that. Plus, having someone in your life to help you through harder times is just..nice. I do get all that.

But what’s so bad about being single and unattached?

Share
Filed Under: Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating After Divorce, Dating Over 40, Dating Realities, Gender Roles, Meeting Men Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Pants or Skirt for a 1st Date?

September 21, 2012 by 13 Comments

A few weeks ago I took part in a Tweet Chat about First Date protocol. The topic of what to wear on a first date came up, and most of the women said they exclusively wore dresses or skirts.

There are a number of reasons why I prefer to wear skirts or dresses on a date. Those clothing choices accentuate the parts of my body that I like. But more than that, wearing a dress or skirt makes me appear more feminine. I’ve mentioned before that I have to do whatever I can externally to make sure I compensate for my more masculine energy. That means everything from getting a manicure to wearing perfume and heels. My demeanor is such that, even in writing, I’m often mistaken for a man.

The spelling of my name doesn’t help matters, which is why I initially tell men that my name is “Kristen.” Not “Christan.” At my Dad’s funeral, when I was called up to do a reading, the priest referred to me as “Christian.” The first two front rows of pews corrected him. No matter where I go, people almost always spell my name incorrectly. The problem isn’t so much the fact that I frequently have to correct people. It’s that the name itself conjures up a male image. That’s not the first impression I want to make.

I was reading a blog yesterday that dissected the whole skirts vs. pants idea. The writer insisted that because her dates told her she looked nice when she was wearing her jeans, tank top and cardigan, that automatically meant that she did. Plus, she added, the mere fact that she was a woman should be enough to qualify her as feminine. SIDE NOTE: I don’t know how the woman looked. She could have looked stunning.  I’m trying to educate women about how common it is for men to say things they don’t mean or that they think are expected of them and how, by hearing these things, women can create a false belief. Do I think they guy meant what he said upon seeing his date in jeans? No. No I don’t. If the guy is one who makes an effort to look nice and not like he just rolled off the coach, then he wants to see the same in his date. And that means no jeans. More than that, I think he wants his date to dress like a woman, not a man. She can wear those jeans, but they have to be complimented with things that are uniquely “feminine.”

Which brings me to the bigger topic:

What do men consider “masculine” or “feminine?” On the flip side, I’d like to know what qualities or traits do women consider “masculine” or “feminine.”

 

 

Share
Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, First Date Jitters, First Impressions, Gender Roles, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

He Said/She Said – Men, Ultimatums & Who Wears The Pants?

March 28, 2012 by 10 Comments

More questions from our He Said/She Said event:

Regarding online dating, why do men email only through the dating site & NEVER ask for your personal email?

There are several possible answers to this:

1. They don’t want to end up in a pen pal relationship. I read so many profiles where the men state explicitly that they’ll looking to meet women who actually want to meet. That’s why a lot of men and women don’t give out their numbers and email addresses, because it often leads to a huge time wasting experience of back and forth messages that lead no where. Have I said this before? Just meet. Skip the phone, skip the texting. Just. Meet.

2.They’re private. Many people just prefer to keep all their online dating communications in one place for organizational purposes. They also don’t want to give out their real email address just because it’s probably attached to their full name and they wish to maintain a little privacy. For the most part, I find setting up an email account strictly for online dating to be a slight hassle. I’d rather just check the website.

3. They don’t want a paper trail - Yes, the guy could also be cheating. He doesn’t want any evidence of that to be found in his email folder should his GF  “happen” across it.

 

Do women prefer to be in control of the relationship or do they want the man to take control?

This, I think, is subjective. It’s also another situation where I think everybody has their own definition of “control.” If you mean do women prefer that men take the initiative, then the answer is yes. Why? Because we’ve been conditioned to believe that a man should do the pursuing. Many women like to know where they stand right away, and having the man initiate conversations helps ease insecurities. This, too, is why we tend to avoid the “nice guys.” They’re not terribly confident. We want a guy who knows what he wants goes after it. Now, if you mean in control as in who wears the pants and makes the decisions? I think every woman is different. Some women want the man to make the major decisions, others want to be the one who call the shots. But I think most women prefer that couples make the bigger decisions together. Since women now have more of an equal footing financially, they no longer look to the man to decide how their money is spent. The tricky thing is that a lot of women, especially the more assertive ones, think they want an equal partnership and a man with a backbone, etc. But really they want  a doormat who will whatever they say. That’s why they end up complaining that they can never find a decent guy – they don’t really know what they want, nor are they aware of how their aggressive demeanor actually draws to them the weaker men.  Only the beta guys will indulge them. They’re so desperate for approval that they’ll do anything, and surrender their dignity in the process. Truly strong women don’t want that. The stronger guys know the difference between a confident and assertive woman and a bitch. Many women don’t. Hence the problem.

 

You are in a relationship for awhile and it has come to the point where you would love to move in but he is wishy washy about the idea. Do you give an ultimatum or do you leave?

It is never wise to issue a man an ultimatum. No man with any self-respect is going to cave in these situations. Their pride won’t let them. Plus it’s a bully tactic. This is why so few men actually give in and commit to women who withhold sex until they get commitment. They know, for the most part, it’s an ultimatum of sorts. Issuing an ultimatum also communicates to a man that the woman isn’t as confident as she is feigning to be. If she were, she’d just leave. So it’s futile to do this because, once you do, you’ve played your hand and he has you where he wants you. A woman should tell a man what she sees for them down the road and then ask him if he’s on the same page. Then she should be patient, because many men are likely to freeze up when confronted with topics like moving in or getting engaged. They want to feel as though they did these things on their own time. If they give in to a woman’s demands, they’ll end up hating themselves and resenting her.Women have to learn to sit on their hands a bit in these situations. They want answers, and it’s rare that men can give them the ones they want when they want them.

 

Share
Filed Under: Dating, Gender Roles, He Said/She Said, Online Dating, Red Flags, Shackin' Up Tagged With: , , , ,

Women & Making The First Move

March 5, 2012 by 56 Comments

I was working with a female client yesterday reviewing her profile. One standard question I always ask people in their session is how proactive they are in contacting members. Most women say they do, but don’t seem thrilled about having to do it. This client yesterday told me she stopped contacting men because a coach she worked with recently told her not to. He said that, if a woman were to initiate contact with him on a dating site, he would assume something was wrong with her and would not consider her for anything other than sex.

I was horrified. Not just because his advice was beyond atrocious but because this woman clearly believed him.

What was really upsetting is that the woman never once stopped and considered what type of person would actually think the way this dating coach said many men think. Somebody who would wonder what was wrong with a person strictly because that person responded to their profile has obvious self-esteem issues of their own. Nobody with a healthy level of self-esteem would question that value or stability of someone else for showing interest in them.

I explained to her that advice like that was nonsense and used to exploit a woman’s vulnerability. And it is. It truly is. When dating online, the traditional gender roles need to be thrown out the window. That means that, sometimes, women need to make the first move. They also have to be smart about

In the online world, I think women not only should be assertive and initiate contact but have to. The men they want to meet, as opposed to the ones that contact them, are likely being pursued by other women. These guys don’t have to invest much time in to crafting emails and sending winks. They’re already being approached. If the goal is to meet people of a specific type, then everybody needs to be more proactive. If you’re not getting many, or any, responses then that person either isn’t interested, is already engaging someone else, or not eager to meet anyone. Don’t just assume it’s because they don’t find you attractive. Of course, if you’re constantly contacting people of a certain caliber, let’s say, and you get no responses, then it’s probably time to lower your standards a bit.My friend M. and I disagree on this. He thinks that women should only pick from the men that contact them. Obviously, this does offer quit a bit more security for the woman. Though it isn’t fail-proof. What women need to learn is to discern which guys have a bevvy of options and therefore will be more likely to either ignore them or just add them to a roster. Of course, that requires knowing what league you’re in and what you can feasibly pull. If you’re not getting certain types of men to approach you offline, then it’s unlikely you’ll have more success getting them to notice you online. Sad reality: If you’re in your late thirties or older, it’s sort of pointless to contact men your own age or younger if you’re looking for a serious relationship. Certainly throw your hat in to the ring, but don’t expect much. Those guys have way too many options and are naturally inclined to prioritize the younger women. (On a related topic, if you’re a woman and you want to  try speeddating, choose an event where you are in the lower half of the age range.)

In any case, there’s no time to just sit back and wait. Like we’ve said before, the online dating process has intensified things and sped everything up. You don’t want him? Someone else will take him. If you find something obscure about him that’s attractive, it’s guaranteed that another woman does as well. So get to steppin’.

Now, let’s talk about initiating the first move sexually. I’ve frequently stated that I believed that most men don’t judge women for having sex on the first date. I stand by that. However, and I’ve said this before, I do think men question a woman if she appear too comfortable with sleeping with a guy on the first date. It’s one thing to accept a guy’s invitation to “see you home” (my favorite) and then inviting him upstairs “for a drink.” Both parties know – or should know – that this is code for getting it on.  It’s another to flat out proposition a guy or suggest they take things back to her/his place. Not only is the woman making herself uncomfortably vulnerable, but she’s telegraphing to a man that she has done this before. In a casual situation, there’s nothing wrong with this. But if the woman is looking for more then she should let the guy think that the sexy time was his idea and she was just swept up in the moment. The guy wants to feel special, like there’s something unique about him that made this woman throw away the rules and risk everything just to be with him. Adorable!

I’m sure a lot of women might disagree and say that they’ve had “success” with being the sexual aggressor. In those cases, they’re usually equating “success” with “length of time.” Getting a man to sleep with you on a regular basis is not difficult. You and he may have never had any issues or conflict,and you may have mixed the sex with casual dates here and there. But you didn’t necessarily have a “long term relationship” with them. Not in the traditional sense, anyway. You had a relationship of some kind. But without the prerequisite sacrifice that we’ve discussed, it’s not a “real” relationship. The man’s hesitancy to take it to the next level could be because the woman was the one to make the sexual first move.  That’s not always the case, but it absolutely is a possibility. To pretend that it isn’t is being willfully ignorant and naive.

So, what do you all think? Should women take more initiative online? Do you agree that they should let the man make the first sexual move?

 

Share
Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating Advice, Friends With Benefits, Gender Roles, Latests Posts, Low Hanging Fruit, Online Dating, Sex, sexuality, Traditional Dating Rules, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , , ,

Survival of The Online Dating Fittest

February 26, 2012 by 34 Comments

From regular commenter Nathan’s blog in response to this post.

I’m struck by what feels like a paradox to me. On the one hand, the advice to offer more “feminine” qualities [in an online dating profile] is probably fairly good, given current social conditions. The majority of men (and women for that matter) do still seem to be operating on the gender constructions we have inherited.

However, I couldn’t in good conscious give such advice. I seriously question the ways in which different activities get attached to “feminine” and “masculine.” A love of baseball doesn’t have anything to do with being a man or being a woman, and it’s silly to perpetuate such ideas. More to the point, though, I am entirely exhausted with the deeper set of assumptions that get tied to gender. For example, the idea that women are more “emotional” than men. Or the converse that men are more “rational.” Underlying both of those statements is the view that reason and logic are superior to emotions, something I completely disagree with.

Given this quandary, what might be some good advice to people on the dating scene?

Here are a few ideas I have. I encourage readers to chime in with others.

1. Learn how to tell a well rounded story about yourself. Forget about all this feminine/masculine, alpha/beta nonsense. Who are you? What are you passionate about? What motivates you to get up every morning?

2. Become skilled in speaking about what you want in a relationship. Just saying you want a long term relationship or to get married isn’t enough. What qualities within a relationship are most important to you? How slow or fast do you want it to move? What are a few deal breakers?

3. Do your best to let go of comparisons to others. This is generally good advice. What I am speaking about here specifically, though, is the ways in which people tend to treat dating these days as a competition. When you think you are competing for someone’s attention and interest, you tend to build a story about yourself that “looks good” and “sells,” instead of just being yourself. In fact, I remember awhile back while I was doing online dating revising my profile based on the thought that it was better to downplay many of the most important things in my life because they aren’t at all mainstream interests. All that lead to was meeting women who didn’t share enough of my worldview to even maintain a decent conversation.

 

Okay, Nathan. Here are my thoughts.

Most men don’t hop on to Match or OKCupid looking for  a girlfriend or wife. They’re looking for a date. Just one date.

The attention span of the typical online dater is growing shorter and shorter. Maybe women want to read labored profiles where men expound on their dream of a white picket fence and a being a loving partner and husband, but most men don’t invest that much time in the profile text. And those men who do do something like that end up being the harshest of critics. Talk about dismissing someone too quickly.  That woman is going to put under the spotlight as those she was being interrogated for a crime.  No woman should be throw herself into the lion’s den that is the man eager to commit and marry. She’s merely a means to an end and nothing more. Those verbose, lengthy profiles that some people write? Avoid ‘em. Women are impressed by them because they equate word count with character, integrity and intentions. That would be wrong. The more they say, the more they enjoy the sound of their own voice. Nobody should be using an online dating profile to gauge whether someone has relationship potential. That can only be done by meeting and engaging that person offline. The profile should be a glimpse of who you are and what you enjoy and what you offer.

A love of baseball doesn’t have anything to do with being a man or being a woman, and it’s silly to perpetuate such ideas.

What I stated that she said was that she enjoyed going to baseball games while having a beer or two. That’s a different image that gets conjured up, and it’s not feminine. Nor is it what a man cares about or is looking for in a partner. It’s wasted landscape. The goal of the profile is to create an image of why you’d be an enjoyable date and possible partner and to do it as succinctly and concisely as possible. Men want women who are nurturing, supportive and safe. Women want men who are stable, strong and confident. (Notice I didn’t say safe there.) Those are the images that men and women should project in their profile. Side note: I just watched an episode of Mad Men where Don Draper kicked in the door to an office to get it open. I literally swooned. Whether we like top admit it or not, we ladies loves the idea of a man who could do that. Yes, he’s a self-obsessed egomaniac. But…he didn’t care, he just went after what he wanted. That’s what we want. And most men like the idea of a woman who has a drink ready for him when he comes home from a hard day at work. You can dissect those two scenarios all you like and cry sexism. Doesn’t make them untrue. The only people that statements like that bother are the ones who fear they are not capable of delivering such attributes.

Become skilled in speaking about what you want in a relationship.

Let me guess. A reliable, honest partner? Someone who is affectionate? Loyal? As opposed to..what exactly? A distant, emotionally abusive cad? Again, it’s wasted landscape. Men KNOW what women want in a relationship. We don’t have to tell them to drive the point home. Sure, talk about your interests. But don’t go overboard or talk about stuff that men already know.

More to the point, though, I am entirely exhausted with the deeper set of assumptions that get tied to gender.

 

You’re pandering here.  Assumptions tied to gender have existed for a very long time. While many have improved, there are still some that have remained exactly the same.

What I am speaking about here specifically, though, is the ways in which people tend to treat dating these days as a competition.

It IS a competition, Nathan. At least online it is. Online dating has intensified and sped up the process of making a connection. Nobody has the time or interest level to sift through manifestos. We have been conditioned to click next the second we disengage.  It’s Survival of The Fittest now. Adapt and evolve or never have a date, never get laid or never have a relationship.The ones continuously bitching and moaning are only doing so because they refuse to get up to speed and are there fore not successful.

You now bring your A-Game, folks. Accept and acknowledge what you can feasibly pull, fix up any flaws you think might be getting in your way, understand how the process works and learn not to take it too personally and for God’s sake employ some critical thinking and let go of all the “rules.”  That alone will spare you  much frustration and save you time. The reality is that you don’t have the time to sit around and lick your wounds and analyze anymore. The process moves far too quickly for that. We are bombarded with options and avenues now. It’s time to step it up.

All those women out there announcing how they’re deleting their profiles because “they don’t like how the game is played.” You can spin that all you like. You’ve been weeded out of the process by your own hand. So do enjoy your time on that soapbox talking about how the guys are the time wasters. Same goes for the guys bitching and moaning about all the “sluts” and “gold diggers” online.

Go right ahead and quit, folks. We’re happy to step over your carcasses.

 

Share
Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Gender Roles, Latests Posts, OKCupid, Online Dating, Uncategorized, What It Means To Be a Single Woman Today Tagged With: , , , , , ,

Guys Don’t Want to Date “One of The Guys”

February 20, 2012 by 24 Comments

Name: Lucy
State: New York
Age: 42
Comment: Hi there Moxie!
I was recently introduced to a man by a mutual friend. We are both triathletes so I was interested in meeting him. The guy and I met up for a bike ride. He did mention he was inviting a couple of his friends along. A couple of hours into the ride, I realized I was not that into him, but I was open to having a new cycling buddy along with his friends that seemed to be nice guys as well. The next day, the guy texts me to tell me that riding was fun and they all enjoyed having me along. He ended the text by saying that his friend “Phil” wanted to know if he can have my number so that we can go running together. I said sure. Phil texts me and we set up to meet for a long run, 17 miles. He was a great guy and after 2 1/2 hours of running, I thought I would like to see him again. He texted me that same day to let me know how he enjoyed the run together and sent me some tips on running and cycling and that he will see me soon. He had a race the following weekend so I sent him a good luck message and to let me know how he did. He responds after his race and tells me the race was tough. He asked me how my training had been going. I reponded that it was a tough 19 miles for me. I have not heard from him since (4 days). Being that we were in constant contact either calling/texting or emailing, I’m wondering if he is just not that into me or just uber focused on another race this weekend. Should I reach out or let him?

 

Most men are fairly in the dark when it comes knowing when a woman is flirting with them. By keeping the topic and tone of the messages to cycling, you’re giving him the impression that your interest in him stops there. You need to switch the conversation to something more flirty and personal.Right now, you’re some running buddy. He’s not seeing you as a possible date for two reasons – you’re playing up the athletic/sporty thing by sticking to that topic, which isn’t terribly feminine, and you’re not making the conversation flirty or personal. He very well might be interested and feeling you out. But you’re not giving him anything to go on. Men, especially shy or reserved men, need  a little push.

Change the subject in your next text. Ask him how his day was. Lead him off that running path into a conversation that’s more personal. That’s what he is waiting to see from you, and that’s probably why he hasn’t asked you to get together. Or he’s just not interested. But the only way to know that short of asking him out (which I don’t recommend unless the guy is just not picking up your signals) is to take things to a more personal level.   Basically, you’re Friend Zoning yourself right now.  You’re being “one of the guys.” That’s not what guys wants.

I was working with two women on their profiles yesterday. Both women made it a point to express their love of baseball and beer or golf and sailing. When I explained to them that most men don’t see that as a selling point, they asked why. My answer was pretty simple: because those things aren’t feminine. That and most men aren’t looking for someone to go golfing with or to attend a Yankees game and throw back a few brews. They can do that with their guy friends. It’s not a bad thing if a woman enjoys those activities. It’s just not something that scores them points in a dating profile or on a the first few dates.

This is the mistake so many women make in their profiles. They try too hard to seem like “one of the guys.” They talk up their jobs, their financial security, all the athletic activities they do, and they don’t showcase their more uniquely feminine traits.

In many cases, the women don’t really have any. They’ve been shutting them down for so long that they’ve atrophied. Or they refuse to sell themselves this way because they think it makes them submissive. Ignore the women who tell you men are intimidated by strong women. It’s a lie. The majority of men are not scared off by a strong woman.

There are some women who are able to use their more masculine attributes to their benefit. They tend to attract what men who have more feminine qualities. (Not to be confused with effeminate qualities.) It works for them. How do you know if that works for you? Well, it works. You meet men on or offline that compliment your personality and energy.

Some of us, though, (raises hand) have to consciously temper our more “masculine” side. :)

Something else that turns men off? A woman who tries to adapt a too-casual attitude towards sex. It’s one thing if the woman doesn’t have sexual hang ups or is sexually assertive. It’s another if she acts like this is something she does all the time. There’s confident (which is good) and then there’s programmed, where you come across completely detached from the whole experience. That turns men off. That’s why men hesitate when a woman proposes no strings sex out of the blue when they barely know each other. If there’s an established friendship or relationship, it’s not as tricky. But if you meet a guy at a party, bar or online and only chat a bit, it’s going to throw most men off. Especially if you “pitch” it.  You know, give them the whole schpiel about how you’re not looking for anything serious and just want casual sex and you find them attractive, blah blah. Don’t do that. That’s a case of a woman thinking she’s acting “like a guy” so she presents herself the way she thinks a guy would act in that case. Why? Because women are in love with the idea of an “honest” guy. Nothing says “I can’t get laid to save my life because every guy thinks I’m crazy” than that speech. Just ask them to meet for a drink and let things unfold organically.

 

 

 

 

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share
Filed Under: Dating, Dating Over 40, Friend Zone, Gender Roles, Latests Posts, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, The Friend Zone, Traditional Dating Rules Tagged With: , , , ,
«Older Posts