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Why Many 1st Dates Never Result In a 2nd Date

August 1, 2012 by 71 Comments

We had some interesting questions at last night’s He Said/She Said event. Here are a few:

 

He Asks:

Why spend 3 1/2 hours on a 1st date and then no 2nd date?

Well, if this first date came from an online dating site, the likely answer is that the person you went out with had another date the next night and liked them more. If someone spends almost 4 hours with you and doesn’t think a 2nd date is warranted, you’re better off without them. Let’s be honest here…we know in a matter of minutes if we’re attracted to someone. If someone had a critical personality flaw, it’s unlikely that someone would be able to tolerate them for almost four hours. Which means that your date was either sticking it out to get laid, waiting for the opportune time to leave or is inherently flakey. Often times we’re so stuck in our head and projecting our feelings on to the other person that we can’t really tell what they think of the date. Last week I mentioned how I wouldn’t go out with someone who had viewed my profile multiple times without contacting me. It’s just an email, and it might lead to a simple drink. Let’s not overthink it. I feel the same way about people who go on dates and stay out for several hours only to email you the next day and say, “I don’t think we’re a match after all.” Really? Okay. Equally annoying are the people who use online dating sites, go on one or two dates with someone, and decide to “focus on that” but yet still keep an active profile and log in regularly. Um..what now? How is that focusing on your current situation?

Speaking of which, I came across a profile on OKCupid a few weeks ago that I thought was…interesting. The guy put a disclaimer at the top of his profile. It said that he had met someone on OKC and was no longer meeting anyone. Then he wished everybody luck. Question: why not just take down your profile? Oh, because you still want people to message you? Or is it so that you could put that statement at the top of your ad so that when the woman you’re dating checks to see if you’ve logged, she’ll see it? It’s one of the two. It is not that you’re a devoted boyfriend. So get over yourself. And girlfriend? If you don’t see the fact that he hasn’t disabled his profile as a huge red flag, you’re an idiot. Many women tend to see disingenuous gestures like that as complimentary when they’re not. (See the “what defines a gentleman” section below.) The guy put that in his profile not because he doesn’t want to date anyone else but because he wanted to be seen as a “devoted” or “honorable” guy. It was strategic, not authentic. Don’t be fooled.

 

He Asks:

Why is every cool, hip chick I know single and looking for a decent guy – i.e. me – yet when I approach – like a gentleman I may add – it is always an uphill battle?

Well, for starters, you say things like “cool, hip chick.”  Words like that went out with bell bottoms and lava lamps, Johnny Bravo. (Please, please tell me you get that reference.) So there’s your first hurdle. You try too hard, which indicates weakness. We’ve said this before…nothing is more unattractive than passivity and weakness. That’s the wrong kind of vulnerable. Sadly, most women just don’t respect that.

As for your gentlemanly approach, let’s break down that word. How men define what it means to be a gentleman and how women define it are two very different things. It’s appropriate that I am listening to “Hanky Panky” by Madonna right now as I type this. There are a few interesting lines in the song that I think explains what women really want.

I don’t want you to thank me/I just want you to spank me

Don’t slobber me with kisses/I can get that from my sisters

Don’t take out your hankerchief/I don’t wanna cry/I just want a hanky panky guy

I don’t like a big softie/I like someone mean and bossy

When many women say they want  a guy who is a gentleman, what they mean is they want a man who demonstrates how much he values/cares for/is attracted to her through insignificant gestures, like paying the check. Oddly enough (not really) those women tend to end up with asshole after asshole. Know why? Because they like assholes, they just don’t realize it.

Women want a man who is going to be assertive and take control and who will keep us on our toes. Some women want men who treat them poorly. Other women want men who challenge them, maybe even push their boundaries a bit. The truth is, we don’t want  a “nice guy.”  We just say that so we sound sensible and rational. The trick is finding that guy who possesses that unpredictability and grit while also displaying an accessible level of vulnerability. (See my imaginary boyfriend Jeremy Renner, pictures above.)

Photo credit – Esquire Magazine

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Filed Under: Book, Dating, Dating & Finances, Dating is Fun, Dating The Crazy, Manly Man, Potpurri, Rejection Tagged With: , , , , , , , , ,

The Meek Shall Not Inherit My Vagina

July 26, 2012 by 40 Comments

Several months back, I emailed a guy on OKCupid. We exchanged about 3 messages,most of which revolved around our thoughts on the site and online dating in general. Since I don’t do the extended email exchange thing, I responded to his last email by saying, “So, Mr. Username. What’s our next move?”

I was giving him the green light. I awaited his email response with a suggestion of when to meet. Instead I got this:

“Ha well what would you like? And what kind of guy are you attracted to physically?”

Wrong answer. For starters, I emailed him. Ergo, I must have found him physically attractive. I get a question like that and I wonder why it’s being asked. To me, that’s a bad sign. Like maybe he no longer looks like his photos. Or that he’s insecure and needs coddling. Whatever it was, he was stalling.  The moment I sense that, I bail. Of course, within 20 minutes, I had another message from him asking if he had scared me off. I replied and told him that all the questions were giving me pause and that I prefer more assertive men.

He replied assuring me that he was confident and assertive when need be. But, see, what he didn’t do was show me how confident he was. Remember, online dating is about showing. Not telling. That was his opportunity to seize the moment and suggest a certain night when we could meet for a drink. Instead he offered a series of excuses. I didn’t reply. He then emailed me again saying, “Oh well. Guess you’re not interested. If you change your mind you know where to find me.”

Block.

Three strikes and you’re out. Between the multiple follow up messages and strange questions, this guy made it abundantly clear he was ambivalent. Maybe even not terribly interested. Either way, I punched out.

Some will say, and I see their point, that I could have asked him out. But, much like some of you red pillers, I have my own filters. I open the door. If he walks in, then that’s a sign he’s confident and, hopefully, will be easy to deal with. It also indicates a level of genuine interest. If he stalls, as this guy did, that means he needs cajoling or is hesitant for some reason. Not for me. While submissiveness has a time and place, passivity does not. I also threw away my tap shoes, which means I don’t feel a need to perform for some stranger. Meet me or don’t. Just don’t waste my time.

Many will say that I was quick to judge. Yup. Welcome to online dating in 2012. Where everybody judges swiftly and harshly and there are no second chances.Whether this is accurate or not, we all believe we have plenty of options. Granted, many of us have fewer than we realize. But you are never going to convince someone that they aren’t as great of a catch as they think they are. So don’t bother.

This is why messages that simply say, “Hi” get ignored by most women. ( Unless the guy is hot, of course. Then his two character greeting is considered succinct and direct. That’s sexy. The truth is that many people have these arbitrary rules and guidelines that, in the end, mean and prevent us from nothing. They don’t actually work. We just think they do.) It’s not that we all need to feel inordinately special, though many do. We want to meet people that seem like they want to meet us.

I assume that men are communicating with multiple women at any given time. But I don’t want to know it. But that’s how the whole “let’s throw this against the wall and see what sticks” attitude conveyed in exchanges and messages like the ones discussed here come across. Aimless. Random. I’m happy to show interest , but it has to be mutual.

There’s a line between pursuing someone and chasing them.

Nobody wants to have to chase.

 

 

 

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Dating is Fun, First Date Etiquette, First Impressions, It's Him, Manly Man, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Why Men Aren’t Attracted to A**holes

April 30, 2012 by 18 Comments

More intriguing confessions from Nerve

I’ve definitely made out with a guy that I wasn’t really interested in at the end of a date. I went out with this guy and I knew long before we got our entrees that I didn’t want to see him again. He was just kind of dull and full of himself. Plus he talked incessantly about how his ex was a bitch, which was a huge red flag. But I had been optimistic and was previously looking forward to a good make out. I’d had a couple of beers and just thought I might as well go for the kiss anyways. Just curious if he was a good kisser and looking for a little intimacy. We ended up making out pretty intensely, practically groping, in the parking lot.I wasn’t too worried about it, because I was sure that he enjoyed it as well. But then I felt guilty, because I’d pretty much just used him for a little make out action. He proceeded to ask me out over text message and I decided the best course of action was to just be honest and tell him I wasn’t interested. I sent a nice enough text back, but he responded with a pretty rude text about how I led him on and something about me being a slut. While I think his response was immature, I kind of see his point. I can certainly understand why he felt that I led him on. So ever since then, I’ve been careful about what kind of signals I give on dates. – R

You were just curious if he’d be a good kisser and if he was looking for a little intimacy? Why is it so hard for women to admit that they just want attention? – M.

Why is it that wanting attention is used to mean ‘being a terrible person,’ especially when applied to a woman? If a guy relayed that story about a girl (‘I wasn’t that interested in her as a person, but she was attractive and I wanted to make out anyway’) he wouldn’t be treated like a monster, he would be treated like a guy. The difference between wanting ‘attention’ and wanting intimacy seems really irrelevant in this case, except that ‘attention’ makes Rachel a bad person, while ‘intimacy’ just makes her a person. And while it’s important to be careful to treat other people with decency, in the immortal words of Bret and Jemaine, a kiss is not a contract. – N.

 

He’d be treated like “a guy?” What does that even mean? Would a man really escape criticism if he did this? If so, the only reason would be is that most men don’t run to the internet and post such stories. Nobody knows you’re a dick if you don’t tell them. I’m sure the attention whorey men that would share these stories want the ire. That’s the difference. When men post stuff like this, they want women to be upset, because they want women to know how interchangeable they are so that the women will feel more competitive. That seems to be the main disconnect. When men behave badly, they are typically aware of it. Women tend to be the ones to create the false narrative in their heads as to how things played out.

It’s like when women tell stories about bad dates or meeting men that turned out to be jerks. Nine times out of ten, the story will go something like this:

So I met this guy on OK Cupid. His profile was all kinds of pretentious and he had these weird pics, but he and I both had a love of Elvis so I decided to meet him. Would you believe he turned out to be a jack ass? I’m so glad I decided not to go out on a second date with him.

Kinda like this story.

Rarely will the woman say that she went out with the guy because she was attracted to him despite the obvious signs that he was an jerk. The guy in her story clearly couldn’t have given a hoot what she thought of him. He went out with her for the attention. When he showed her his book, chock full of all kinds of American Psycho inspired douchebaggery, what he was saying to her was, “I couldn’t care less what you think.” That is what bothered her. I don’t think the  misogynistic tone of his stories had as much to do with why there was never a second date as the fact that I’ll bet he never asked for one. Guys like this intentionally write obnoxious profiles trying to draw in unsuspecting women with whom they can mess. They’re attention whores. She fell for it. The End. She in no way slayed that dragon. But people will tell her she did., which is the point of telling such a tale.

When women retell such stories it’s very, very important to them that they be perceived as the heroine in the fairy tale.

Men don’t really care about being seen as the hero. They’re fine with being the villain. Know why? Because they know two very important things:

1. Many women tend to lie to their girlfriends. They let the woman have the empty win because they don’t care.

2. Many women are attracted to assholes…but will deny it.

A man can get away with being an asshat because he knows there’s always going to be a woman out there who will fall for it. A woman can’t because most men will know what she’s doing. He’ll either blow her off or use her.  It’s another instance of women trying to re-enact what they believe is “common male behavior.” It’s not. It’s “common asshole behavior.” The laws of supply and demand are in the men’s favor. The more of a douchebag they are, the more women they can get.

Men aren’t the ones who date assholes. Women are. Men know that they can be the villain and still get what they want. Women don’t have that luxury. Not anymore, at least. In terms of work and education, we might have more leverage. That can’t be said for the dating and sexual market place. Our leverage has been slowly slipping away from us in that arena. Know why? Our need to “act like men.”

Ironic, isn’t it?

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Dating, Douchey Guys, Manly Man, Meeting Men Tagged With: , ,

When Will She Stop Withholding Sex?

March 21, 2012 by 33 Comments

Name: Jay
State: New York
Age:
Comment: I am a 26 year-old male and I have been with my girlfriend for around 11 months now, on and off. We just got back together and emotionally she is getting close to me again but she has withheld sex from me since December and is still doing so. She claims sex is something I get when I gain her trust and I lost her trust by starting petty fights repeatedly during the months we’ve been together. Before December we were having sex about 3, 4 times a week.
Her rejecting me physically makes me feel worthless and I don’t know how much longer she is making me wait. Is this normal behavior on her part? What do I do to get her to have sex with me again?

She claims sex is something I get when I gain her trust and I lost her trust by starting petty fights repeatedly during the months we’ve been together

So, you two haven’t had sex in almost four months? And you’re still sticking around? Why? You’re 26. Why not just ditch this girl and find someone else rather than allow her to emasculate you like this? It’s not like you’re married. So just leave her and find someone else. That seems like the easiest solution. You’ve already broken up once. That right there is a bad sign. Why hold on to something that doesn’t appear to be very healthy or that makes you unhappy?

I realize that probably wasn’t you wanted to hear, but the alternative – to help you get this woman to have sex with you – just felt all shades of wrong. Withholding sex is just one of the many forms of abuse that a man or woman can endure in a  relationship. Ergo, I wouldn’t advocate staying in such a situation.Really? She broke up with you because she claims you started petty fights, but then got back together with you anyway, thinking if she withheld sex she wouldn’t be giving in? So this is her way with dealing with her own shame or whatever for giving you a second chance? Or does she just like the idea that you’re so whipped you’ll suck it up just to be around her? Either way….that’s a pretty ugly personality there. But it’s also a sign of real emotional immaturity and poor relating skills. I’m assuming she’s younger than you, yes? Say 21-25ish? She gets somewhat of a pass because of her age, but this behavior doesn’t bode well for her future relationships. Or for you.

She doesn’t know how to express her own doubts and hurt, if she has any. Her way to deal with conflict is to punish you and be hurtful. Dating someone who doesn’t know how to communicate such feelings in a healthy way is an uphill battle. Most people take one of two stances when it comes to conflict – they either run away or shut down or they confront the conflict head on. Neither is especially productive.

Also confusing is why she would give up having sex with you if she was having it that frequently before. Is it possible she just doesn’t like sex and is using this as an excuse not to have it? Or that she fears you just are interested in sex or nothing more?Or that she’s, well, getting it somewhere else?

This is an example of how women place such a high value on sex and use it as a bartering chip. Women who do this have a limited understanding of how real relationships – healthy ones – work. It’s a strategy, and it often fails. That is, unless they manage to land a sucker so desperate for a girlfriend that he tolerates it.

You two need to talk about what’s really going on here and you need to get to the bottom of her real concerns. Because this dog don’t hunt. There’s more to it than just her using sex as a reward.

You have to ask her what her true concerns are. If you’ve rectified the behavior and she’s still withholding sex, then the truth is that this girl either just isn’t into you or gets off hurting you.

If you insist upon staying in this relationship, you need to regain some of your footing and stop letting her call the shots. If she doesn’t want to talk or if she continues to her sex strike, then you need to make it clear to her that if she doesn’t have sex with you, you’ll just find someone else who will. If she’s not having sex with you, then as far as I’m concerned, all bets are off. You’re free to do what you want. If she doesn’t like that, well she can always either start having sex with her boyfriend and stop playing games or she can trot along and find some other guy who lacks a backbone to tolerate her drama.

The question you need to ask yourself, Jay, is…how much sh*t are you willing to eat? No man or woman would ever tolerate someone treating them this way. So you need to figure out why you’re desperate to stay with this girl.

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Filed Under: Break Ups, Commitment, Couple Conundrums, Dating, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Men & Conflict Tagged With: , , , , ,

The Player Sh*t Test: Does “Game” Really Work?

March 17, 2012 by 28 Comments

This morning I read a post over at Private Man’s blog.

The post offered advice to women on how to spot a player.

 

A man starts a conversation with a woman who is single….

The conversation continues and gets just a bit more personal. They find out what each person does for a living, how many kids they each have, where they each were born. The man then asks for the woman’s phone number or suggests that they go have a drink. The woman is secretly thrilled yet shows nothing. She should be thinking “This guy started the conversation, What if he’s a player? Maybe he’s one of these pick-up artists who just wants a sexual encounter and nothing more?”

To any woman who finds herself in this situation (and who doesn’t just want a sexual encounter), here’s what she must ask, verbatim:

“What if I told you I was seeing someone?”

A man of good character will back off. He might apologize. He might just say “too bad”. He might even compliment the hypothetical boyfriend as “lucky fellow.” Regardless, he’s respecting the woman’s current, if mythical, relationship. This guy is a keeper.

 

Here’s my first question. Am I the only one who would consider, upon hearing a line like “What if I told you I had a girlfriend/boyfriend?”, that the person was obviously testing me and would walk away?

I don’t know. For me, it’s that kind of stuff that makes me breathe a heavy sigh and go, “Next!”  There’s a fine line between being coy and smooth and being, well, dodgy. This, too me, feels dodgy.

Question two. If someone tells me they are “seeing someone” is that considered “being in a relationship?” Would it really be a sign that the woman or man is someone of ill repute if they tossed their hat in to that ring?

Finally, so what if he or she “just wanted a sexual encounter.” I mean, say no. Or say yes and maybe end up having a relationship. Are men really so terrified of being “used” in this way? I just don’t get it.

I look at Game like I look at The Rules. Or prayer. (Yes, I just said that.) They’re both used as a way for men and women to feel as though they are in control of a situation over which they actually have no control.

It’s like what we were saying last week about that article on how to get a boyfriend using online dating. Did all those things the woman did with her profile really help her find a guy? Or did she just happen to find a guy, and she thinks her approach therefore “worked?”

Does any of this stuff actually work? Or do we just think it does? And what are the metrics used to define “success?”

 

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating Lies, Dating Over 40, Dating Skills, Game, Latests Posts, Low Hanging Fruit, Manly Man, Meeting Men, Meeting Women Tagged With: , , , , ,

This Just In: Man Wants Sex, Is Still A Good Person

March 7, 2012 by 66 Comments

Name: Diane
State: PA
Age: 42
Comment: I’m looking for a long-term relationship, hopefully leading to marriage.  I posted tasteful pictures of myself online, but get very few messages.  I did a little experiment and set up a similar worded profile, also looking for a long-term relationship, but with pictures of myself in a bathing suit.

I’m getting a lot of messages on the bathing suit profile.  Some of them don’t reference my body or sex, but I’m too scared to answer them in case the men are expecting to meet up for a one night stand.

Am I right in assuming that the men ignoring the tasteful profile and flocking to the bathing suit profile are just looking for easy sex?  I’d love to hear your thoughts.

 

Some of them don’t reference my body or sex, but I’m too scared to answer them in case the men are expecting to meet up for a one night stand.

They very well might end up being strictly in it for the sex. I under stand the concern. But there’s nothing that says you have to sleep with them. You go out with men not knowing if you’ll be attracted to them, right? It’s the same thing. It’s the same amount of risk involved. I think what you’re really afraid of is that you’ll end up sleeping with one of them only to discover he wasn’t interested in you beyond sex. That’s why you don’t sleep with them. But even that isn’t a guarantee. The guy could still take you out again and maybe even once more, have sex with you, and dump you. So what is your default response? Do you just not go out with any guy at all ever? Yeah, some guys just want to get in your pants. If that thought terrifies you, then you should really reconsider dating at all.

You posted a photo of you in a bikini. What that likely said to many men was, “I like my body.” That in and of itself is a huge plus in a man’s eyes. It means you’re reasonably secure and possibly even like S-E-X.  Again, bonus! These are good things. Not an insult. And these guys aren’t bad or wrong or “pervy” for considering liking sex a positive thing.

All that said, let’s talk about the whole “I’m looking for marriage thing.” Because that’s your real challenge.

I think you and every other woman with the same mission are setting themselves up for failure when you approach dating with this mentality. Harsh truth? People are moving away from marriage. By our age, the men who have never married probably never will and those who have and divorced are probably way too skeptical of the whole shebang.I strongly urge you to adjust your approach and consider why you want or need marriage as opposed to some other kind of long-term commitment. Many people want that person who will see us through to our old age. I get that. I understand those fears that many of us  have about being taken care of or having someone with us in case something happens to us or we get sick. We want that security, and that’s not an inordinate desire. It is, however, becoming more and more unrealistic. I say this as someone who had the same goal and finally came around to the fact that those men who wanted marriage were becoming fewer and fewer. The men who wanted relationships, however, were not. If you want  a relationship, you can get one. But if it’s security and some manufactured ideal you seek, you’re in for an uphill battle. Many of the men our age just aren’t on the same page. You’re going to have to go to Plan B, and that involves developing your own long-term plan for how you’ll take care of yourself later on if that is a concern for you. Because even if you do marry, there’s a 50/50 chance it won’t work out. Either way, you have to have a long-term plan.

Making this more difficult will be if you’re still hoping to have kids. Hopefully you’re open to being a step-parent, and if so you need to make sure that that is made clear in your profile. But if you’re not, and you’re still hoping to have your own or to adopt, you’re swimming against the tide. If these men wanted kids, they’d have had them by now. And if they’re 40+ and still hoping to have their own, they’re dating women in their early to mid thirties. Or younger.

So something is going to have to give.

 

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Filed Under: Awkward, Book, Dating, Dating Over 40, First Date Jitters, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Marriage, Meeting Men, OKCupid, Online Dating, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , ,

Boys Will Be Boys

January 19, 2012 by 63 Comments

The other day, Private Man suggested we both answer a question from one of his readers. His responses are in italics. Mine are in bold.

Okay so if you go on a date with a woman and it seems to go pretty good, what are good techniques for the following:

1 – Ending the date.  I know to end it on a high note before any tedium sets in, but what’s a good way to make the exit.   Knowing that on the date in question a first date bang ain’t happening but in all other respects things went well.

PM – As the man, you should certainly be the one who ends the date. You can end it by checking your watch or cellphone and say something like “I’ve got to run, it’s been great meeting you.” Don’t tell her why you have to run, maintain a bit of mystery.

MOXIE – If you’re interested in her, enjoy the evening. Don’t sit there and think you have to end things by a certain time. Let the date run its natural course.  I wouldn’t recommend a marathon date, but if the vibe is there and you two are enjoying each other, don’t end the date because you think you’ll look too eager if you don’t. When you feel things are winding down, that’s when you step in and say that you have to get going home. (Even if you’re not going home, say you are even if you’re meeting friends somewhere.)  Don’t say “it’s been great meeting you.” It’s a date, not an interview. It sounds clinical and kind of negative. You walk her to her cab or the subway or to her building, ya smooch her good night and tell her you want to see her again.

2 – What verbal enders are good like – “Call you in a few days”  bleh.

PM – “You can expect an email from me.” “Look for my texts”, etc. Don’t say exactly when.

MOXIE – Jesus. Why doesn’t he just send her a tape recording that says, “Your Mission, should you choose to accept it, is to go out with me again.” Then have it explode 5 seconds after listening for effect. At the end of the date you say you want to see her again and that you’ll contact her to make plans for X day. You don’t have to say when to contact her. I don’t think it’s bad to play it cool. Just don’t make douchey statements like, “Look for my texts.” It just makes you sound so odd and controlling. Also? Please realize that more and more women are attuned to Game lingo.

3 – What’s the “rule” on follow-up contact – I’ve heard everything from wait two days, a week, etc. before you follow-up and setup another get together.

PM – Between 24 and 72 hours after the date has ended. Any more than three days (72 hours) and that will throw off your online dating website review schedule (see my answer below).

MOXIE – I agree with PM here. 24-72 hours is an appropriate amount of time. I’d say wait at least half a day and then follow up.

4 – If you met her online, is it poor form to be seen back on the dating site the next day, yet you are not contacting her? Since we know she can see that you logged on, and we know she is going to check – giggle. Anyway, seems kind of obvious that you are just waiting the obligatory two days or whatever since she has a timestamp of when you were online.   I’m thinking it best to just stay off of course, but if you are also working other fish….on the other hand, being seen back on the dating site, but not contacting her might make hamsters turn the wheel, or it might make you look desperate.  I dunno.

PM – Tricky business this. If you would like to see her again, don’t log in until after you have sent her the follow up communication. Then wait for a period of a few hours as if you’re waiting for her response (which you are). If you’re working other fish, you should be communicating via email and not through the dating website’s internal messaging system.

MOXIE – If she’s going to monitor your dating profile, that’s her choice. Frankly, I think it’s a good idea to let her see you online. Lest she get a little too comfortable. Don’t go out of your way to make sure she sees that. But don’t hide because you’re afraid she will. You’re indulging her possible need to over-analyze and obsess. I think PM is encouraging you to put way too much thought in to what’s going on in her head. You’re making what is supposed to be fun and possibly lead to the sexy time into a chess game. There is such a thing as over-strategizing.

5.  Finally, if you met her online, went back and forth a bit, did the phone call, did the date, should follow-up to set next meet up always be phone call?  I’m thinking yes.

PM – A phone call is best but you can text her in advance with “I’m going to call you soon” to test her response. A “looking forward to it!” or something similar is a good sign. No response means she’s not that interested in you and the phone call may be a useless exercise.

MOXIE – You could do either. I’d just send a text. I don’t think a phone call is required. Plus, once you set that precedent she’ll hold you to it.

 

Thoughts?

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating In a Big City, Friend Zone, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Meeting Women, Online Dating Tagged With: , , , , , , ,

Guest Post – Why Guys Think Pics With Cars, Bikes & Fish Are Hot

December 28, 2011 by 58 Comments

Name: The Private Man
Website: http://theprivateman.wordpress.com
Story: Men, Online Dating Profiles Photos, Accomplishments

When evaluating online dating profile photographs of men, there are quite a few complaints about the nature of those photos. There is the shirtless photo of the man in the bathroom, the man with his motorcycle (or other motorized vehicle), and the infamous man holding the fish he’s just caught. Women don’t seem to like these photos. Indeed, some are quite put off by these photos.

The problem is that women simply don’t understand men and are only evaluating those photos from a woman’s point of view. Here’s a basic truth about men. We’re proud of our accomplishments. We like to show off our accomplishments. When a man catches a big ol’ fish after an epic struggle, he’s going to hold up that fish proudly and put a big ol’ grin on his face when his photo is taken. He’s saying to the world, “Look what I can do!”. That fish is his accomplishment.

For the most part, women don’t like fishing and simply can’t fathom why a man would be proud of such an accomplishment. The thing is, catching that fish likely took time; intelligence (ever try to outwit a fish? It’s like finding a great shoe sale); physical strength; and if a charter boat was involved, a lot of money.

This same masculine approach applies to the photo of the motorcycle. Riding a motorcycle safely is a huge accomplishment and a man should be proud of that and show off. I ride a motorcycle and while fun, it ain’t safe. The shirtless bathroom photo? That guy’s proud of physique. That takes time and effort.

By the way, women are also proud of their accomplishments but in a qualitatively different way. A woman will often include photos of their kids and/or their pets. She’s telling the world that she has the capacity for love and caring, a uniquely feminine accomplishment. If she has a good figure, you’ll see the same bathroom shot or something similar. Maintaining a good figure is a huge accomplishment for a woman.

In order to stop being so single and actually land a man (love that fishing metaphor!), a woman has to understand men and appreciate them for their unique and very positive masculine approach to life. If that involves some photos that don’t make much sense, it behooves a women to better comprehend the man holding the fish.
City: Fort Lauderdale
State: FL
Age: 49

 

I wanted to add something to this. Here’s what men need to understand about women in this respect. When we see you posing with your car or bike, we think you’re trying to over compensate for something. When we see you wearing sunglasses or a hat in your photos, we think you’re hiding something. If you’re posing with a female, we think you’re trying to prove something.  Basically, what we see is insecurity. I highly doubt that is going to change.

A photo can speak volumes, whether it’s a Facebook profile photo or an image inserted in to a blog post or an online dating profile. There is always a message and a purpose to that photo. Sometimes the message is that the person likes to have fun or is laid back or is generally a positive and pleasant person. But other times, and these are the times when the plan backfires, it’s just blatant attention whoring. Nothing reeks of attention whoring more than some dude posting photos of himself with what he considers to be an attractive woman. Or a fish. Or a car. Or a bike. Or in a tank top. Or shirtless. So while your intended message might be one of accomplishment, the received message is, “I’m a hairy, tank top wearing, fish catching, Cammaro riding douche.” That would be why we pass those profiles over. Because those pictures are dripping with insecurity and egomania. Big deal. You’ve dated other women. You bought a car. You learned how to ride a bike. These are things we’ve all done. They don’t speak to our character or really even to our personality. That’s what we want to see in photos. Flashes of character and personality.

I understand PM’s view that catching  a fish or riding a motorcycle can be considered an accomplishment. It’s just not one that we lady folk find terribly impressive. Mainly because we expect you to be strong. No offense boys, but we can squeeze a nine pound person out of our cervix. You can use a machine at a gym and do some reps? Congrats. Take that 10 pound weight and spend 14 hours pushing it out of your anus. Then we’ll be impressed.  We expect you to be brazen and fearless. We expect you to be able to outwit a goddamn fish. It’s a fish. Not a missile.

I don’t expect this to revolutionize the way men or women choose their photos. The truth is, for every woman in a bikini or showing off her boobies with a cleavage shot, there is a man who will find that attractive. There are plenty of men out there easily taken in by a hot bod. For awhile, of course. And there are plenty of inexperienced simpletons who will be so captivated by a man’s narcissism and blatant indifference that she’ll stay with him and brag to her friends about her “hot” boyfriend.

These people aren’t looking for substance. They’re looking for style. They’re looking for someone that they believe will make them look (and feel) better. People who place emphasis on the shallow aspects of their lives and personalities are not terribly deep themselves.  They’re posting pictures that they believe reflect who they are and what makes them different or special.It’s just peacocking or rubbernecking.

Nobody worth wanting wants someone who puts that kind of emphasis on such things.

 

 

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Guest Post, It's Him, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Online Dating

Do You Pass His/Her Sh*t Test?

November 23, 2011 by 16 Comments

Good evening. I have a question for you and your community of women.

Are there a substantial number of women who simply won’t engage men in casual conversation on places like the subway, bus or street even though they may actually like their vibe?

I was on a NYC bus today and it really felt like this woman sat next to me because she was kind of feeling me a bit. There a good number of other seats available. We briefly checked each other out before we got on. But when I chatted her up, the conversation didn’t really flow. I was quickly the one asking all the questions so I backed off because I wasn’t feeling any reciprocal interest.

This situation reminded me of this book I read recently called The Power Of Eye Contact by Michael Ellsberg. He quotes Lauren Frances a dating coach. She says this, “Most women date like what I call ‘Sleeping Beauties in a Coma.’ It’s totally bred into us…all Sleeping Beauty had to do was spin flax and take long naps to find her dream man…a lot of women who play ‘hard to get’ go home alone.”

There could have been a number of really good reasons this woman didn’t respond to me but I’m curious to know from the other gender directly if there are a good number of women playing “hard to get” as a strategy of some sort.

Furthermore, I’d like to know, if after I throw out a few conversational openers to woman I meet randomly, should I just back off and take it a sign of disinterest? Or power on a bit, as charmingly as possible, so one may get through, what some guy dating coaches would call a shit test.
(http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/shit-test/) I want to be respectful but I don’t want to be weak either.

There’s also a great section in chapter three of Ellsberg’s book about how women are afraid to engage men in public situations (supermarket, subway, etc) because if they open up a conversation and he’s uncool or dorky they don’t know how to take care of themselves and quickly draw boundaries and exit the conversation.

Sincerely,
Walker, 36, NYC

 

I was quickly the one asking all the questions so I backed off because I wasn’t feeling any reciprocal interest.

Okay. Define “quickly.” That could have been the main problem. You could have come across too eager.

Walker, I know you. I’ve met you a few times. So I’ll say this: you come off kind of flakey and over eager, which I think many women read as weak to some degree. I can remember being at a gathering with you and standing by as you tried to chat up a woman you had met. That woman pretty much dumped on you. She was like a girl in high school, complete with being flanked by her court of sycophants, and was performing for her friends. She continuously talked down to you. You just stood there and took it and you tried to win her approval. Approval you were never going to get. When a a person smells blood in the water or senses their “target” is “in distress” they’re going to attack. We see it here in the comments all the time. The minute a man or woman expresses a genuine confusion or vulnerability and is perceived as weak, the commenters with axes to grind swoop in.  Typical bully crap. There are plenty of men and women out there looking to use others as punching bags because they’ve so badly beaten and bruised themselves.

It’s nice to get attention from men. But that attention can seem overwhelming if it is given too quickly or in an inordinate amount. “Quickly” asking questions could make you appear over eager. That would explain why the woman pulled back. She may have seen you had had an initial interest. But the minute you started firing questions at her, her natural instincts kicked in and she recoiled and shut down. Yes, it was the bus. Yes, you were in public. I’m sure those two things did accentuate the possible danger factor involved. I agree with the Ellsberg that the public factor of the encounter probably did make her feel more uncomfortable. She had no idea if you were going to ask her out and she was going to have to say no and risk public ridicule.

Furthermore, I’d like to know, if after I throw out a few conversational openers to woman I meet randomly, should I just back off and take it a sign of disinterest?

If she doesn’t return the interest in a comparable way, like asking questions of her own or trying to prolong the conversation, then yes. You should back off. Not just because she might feel threatened or might not be interested. In this day and age, there’s just no time for the whole “playing hard to get” thing. Anybody who functions under the belief that they can make someone “work for it” is shooting themselves in the foot. There’s just no time for that anymore. My friend K. and I were walking home from an event one night a few weeks ago. He was supposed to have a date with a woman he met on OKCupid. She had said that he should text her when he was done with his other appointment. He sent her a text about a half hour before we left. 45 minutes later he hadn’t heard from her. What did he do? He went on to OKCupid, popped open the OKC app, logged in to the Locals section and sent out a broadcast saying he was in Midtown and wanted to know if someone wanted to meet up. In ten minutes he had two responses. In twenty minutes he had a date.

It’s that easy. Think about that the next time you cancel a date with a woman or man last minute. You are replaceable.

Or power on a bit, as charmingly as possible, so one may get through, what some guy dating coaches would call a shit test.(http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/shit-test/) I want to be respectful but I don’t want to be weak either.

Why bother with all that? Why would anybody tolerate or engage someone “testing” them? There’s game…and there’s a game. That’s a game. As I said above, any man or woman who thinks they’re so God damn unique or special that they can put up a flaming hoop and find some sucker to jump through deserves to be alone. Someone who uses sarcasm or some other kind of closed non-verbal or verbal behavior to “test” someone has issues. Period. You want to schlep their baggage for the duration of that relationship? Go right ahead. My friend J. showed me the profile of a guy that emailed her on Match. There was a line in the profile that mentioned a sport that he liked. It was an obscure sport. He said, in his profile, that if the woman reading didn’t know what it was she should Google it. Then they’d have something to talk about. Um…next? All something like that reveals is that you have a ridiculously high opinion of yourself. That’s not someone with whom you want to be involved.

Walker, if you’re going to approach women in public (as in the bus, train, supermarket, bar) situations, then do so cautiously. Those types of environments naturally encourages someone to have a suspicious or defensive nature. Smile, make eye contact, keep conversation light and impersonal. Wait to see how they initially respond before escalating. If they don’t, move on. If they’re attracted to you in those first moments, then they will slowly let their guard down. People chat each other up all the time on subway platforms and on trains. If they shut down, it’s either because they aren’t attracted or sense some kind of “danger.” If you come on too strong or too eager or too curious, you will be perceived as some kind of threat. Don’t get caught up in trying to get a certain reaction or response. If you become that consumed with what they think of you, you’ve lost the battle. You have to learn to shrug it off, not take it personally and move on.

That is THE biggest challenge for single people. You can’t take everything so personally or assume it’s about you.

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Filed Under: Awkward, Dating, Dating & Communicating, First Date Jitters, First Impressions, Latests Posts, Manly Man, Meeting Men, Meeting Women

How Does He Fight The Urge to Cheat?

November 4, 2011 by 36 Comments

Name: Zean
State: NY
Age: 32
Comment: Hello Moxie,
I’ve been with my girlfriend for almost 4 years.  I am going to ask her to marry me this year and I’d like to start a family with her. However, I can’t stop looking at other women and I often wonder what it would be like to have sex with another women. I’ve had chances on business trips but I have not acted on them.  The last one (and fifth chance since I’ve been with her) was on a business trip last week and I flirted a little and so did she. But, I realized what I was doing, got freaked and left the situation.

I know looking and lusting for others is natural and this isn’t the first relationship I’ve been in but she’s the one. I don’t want to flirt with other women and I don’t want to come any closer to another woman.  And this women was also attractive so it’s not a case of not wanting to sleep with her anyway. My problem is that I think of other women and I want to stop thinking of other women.  Thinking of other women eventually seems to lead to cheating. I don’t want to date anyone else and I enjoy spending time with my girlfriend. She’s one of my best friends. I talk about almost everything with her but certainly not this issue. I want to come home to her, watch movies with her, walk around with her, eat dinner and cook with her and I want to have sex with her too. I’m attracted to her and yes, the sex life has ups and downs but I’m still generally satisfied. I have no doubts about marrying her.

I don’t like seeing a woman and thinking about what it would be like to have sex with that person because it seems to lead to acting on it.   I have three good friends and two are married (and one has children).  Both of the married ones have cheated on their wives and say it’s “natural” to look and want to have other women.  They both told me it helps their marriage because they don’t have to leave the marriage and that they love their wives. I don’t buy that rationalization and it’ll bite them back later. My other friend is in a 2 year relationship and has cheated on his girlfriend a few times yet claims he loves her.  I can’t beleive how many of my other acquantences have also cheated and think nothing of it. I have never cheated on any girlfriend and I don’t want to.

I told them that I don’t understand it and I’m afraid of cheating.  They’re somewhat understanding of my feeling but they say (paraphrasing), ‘You’ll see. We’re not built like women. There are too many women to stay with one sexually but if you find a good one, then marry her.’  Neither of the women are aware and none would be too happy knowing this. Of course, I have to deal with some jokes about how I’m really a “woman.” I don’t want to end up like my friends, who, as I’ve warned them, are headed towards divorce.

So, I guess my questions are:
1) Does it ever go away? Does the urge get stronger the longer that you’re in a relationship?  This is the longest relationship I’ve been in (and I’m 32).  I’ve had two relationships that lasted about a little less than a year each (with some various dating for a month or 6 months and in between.) I’ve always looked at other women but I figured it was natural. I thought that it would stop when I met the girl I want to marry. But, it hasn’t.  I don’t want to have a child with her and then cheat on her.

2) Do women feel like this? I can’t ask my female friends because they’ll just think I’m a jerk for even thinking of anyone other than my girlfriend.  I assume women still look but do they think, “I’d like to have sex with that guy,” when they’re happily in a relationship? Once a woman is in a relationship, why does it seem they’re more okay with not being attracted to other men, than men are? Or why does it seem they can control their urges better?
I wish there was a pill you could take that would only make you attracted to the person you love. Then all this would be easier.
Thanks for reading this.

 

why does it seem they’re more okay with not being attracted to other men, than men are? Or why does it seem they can control their urges better?

The key word here is “seem.” This is how you perceive the situation, probably because you don’t hear of or see and stories about women sending pics of their boobs or vaginas to 18 year old college studs or tales of nailing their assistants or nannies in some oval office. It’s been widely documented that men and women cheat equally. So we do experience the some of same primal urges and inner conflict. I think a big reason why fewer women are outed for their indiscretions is because the guys we’re having sex with are just in it for the sex. They don’t really care if we never leave our boyfriends or husbands. Therefore, there is no need to seek revenge or any form of retribution. That, I think, is a primarily female thing to do, again playing in to the competitive nature that many women possess. That’s why, in almost every cheesy movie about adultery, there’s usually a showdown between the wife/girlfriend and the mistress. That’s what it (bunny) boils down to in most cases. A misguided competition. The mistress completely overlooks the fact that this guy she’s fighting over is cheating on his significant other, thereby making him an ass.  So what does that make her? It makes her a crazy bitch fighting to “keep” or “have” a douchebag. Pointless. Smart women who engage these types of unavailable men do it for the sex only. They recognize the man’s critical flaws. They don’t want them in any other capacity.  Unfortunately many women resort to confronting or contacting the GF/Wife “to warn her.”  Usually it’s just an attempt to knock the other woman out of contention or a way to cause the man pain because she’s in pain. Many say that they’re trying to help or looking out for the other woman, but they’re not. (Some are genuine with this, but I think they are exceptions to the rule and not the rule.) Trust me, ladies. If a guy truly is the lying or cheating douchebag you believe him to be (and he often is), that woman will figure it out soon enough. If she doesn’t, then that’s only because she doesn’t want to. In which case there is no saving her.

I can’t believe how many of my other acquantences have also cheated and think nothing of it. I have never cheated on any girlfriend and I don’t want to.

Is it that you don’t want to cheat, or is it that you’re afraid to? Because, to me, it doesn’t sounds like you resent your friends for cheating. It sounds like you resent their ability to do it and not feel guilty. Which, to me, says you do want to have sex with these women, but your fear of the overwhelming guilt is what is preventing you from doing so. Not some altruistic belief or because you strongly feel cheating is wrong.You’re quite busy shaming your male counterparts in this letter, and all that ever says to me is that the person doing the shaming is the one feeling the shame.

I wish there was a pill you could take that would only make you attracted to the person you love. Then all this would be easier.

Forgive the analogy, but it’s like a pedophile taking all kinds of medications to quell their sexual urges. It might prevent them from molesting a child, but it doesn’t not make them a pedophile.  The threat is still and will always be present, whether it’s acted upon or not. As long as those feelings are there and are as strong as they appear to be for you, you’ve got a problem, and getting married isn’t going to make it go away.

Thinking of other women eventually seems to lead to cheating.

I’m not sure I agree with this. I think the more accurate explanation is that thinking of cheating leads to cheating.  You’re not just consumed with the idea of having sex with these other women. You’re fixated on the cheating part.  That’s what is concerning to me. You’re focused on the part that involves acting upon those urges.  Not just the urges themselves.

The desire is always going to be there. It doesn’t go away. That it seems, based on the urgency in your letter, to be causing such an internal crisis within you makes me think that you’re not ready to be married. At least not until you’re at a point where you can stop beating yourself up for having what I happen to believe are natural feelings.

It doesn’t sound like you’ve had many partners or much relationship experience in general. That, too, I think is playing  a part in all of this. I think maybe the desire and concern about cheating is, if I may play arm chair psychologist, is a manifestation of a completely different but certainly connected concern or fear. Like maybe you fear you haven’t experienced all that you think you should have.

This feels like a “I’m going to propose because I think I should” situation more than a “this is The One I’ve been waiting for and I’d be a fool to let her go” one.

My advice? Hmm…I might get flamed for this…but I think you need to step back from the relationship. For two reasons. One, because I think you need time to really figure out if you’re ready to be married without outside influences. And two…to get some of the poison out of your system, so to speak. Basically I’m saying that you need to have sex with other women, Zean, before you decide to forsake all others.

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Filed Under: Cheating, Date Like a Man, Dating, Gender Roles, Manly Man, Marriage, Monogamy, Polyamory, Sex Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,
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