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How to Avoid Being Used for Sex

May 13, 2013 by 6 Comments

Name: flyetteconfwomenz
Comment: I met a guy a few years ago and we immediately liked each  other. Circumstances beyond our control separated us but we remained in platonic contact at a distance for months afterwards. At the beginning I think he was genuinely interested in who I was, but then I got the impression he merely wanted to have sex with me. No big deal since it was me who initiated the sex talk between us. After a while all contact stopped. We kept silent for years. Recently he sent me a message out of the blue saying he wants to see me and I gave him an evasive reply because it hurt me a lot having lost the contact before and I did not want to be taken for granted. I also do not want to be perceived merely in the sexual way. He has not replied for several weeks now. Is it possible he only contacted me because he wants to have sex? I do not think it is fair for him to reappear just like that, stir my feelings and then disappear again. I have been thinking of all the possibilities of why this happened. What seems most plausible is: 1. he made a mistake, and 2. prospect of sex only.
Age: 32
City: phoenix
State: arizona

I’ll generalize a bit here and say that I don’t think men are known for taking trips down memory lane. At least not where casual acquaintances are concerned. I am always suspicious of people from my past who pop up unexpectedly at random moments. I’ve done that, usually when I’m low on prospects or feeling lonely.

Let’s face it. You’re going to try and see him again and you’ll probably have sex with him. You’re going to make him “work for it” so that you can justify doing what you would have done anyway. Here’s the thing: he knows what you’re doing. If it’s sex he’s after, he’ll play along. You did not event this game. It has been around for centuries. The only thing you are achieving by being vague and non-responsive is gaining a false sense of confidence.

I also do not want to be perceived merely in the sexual way.

Using sex to get a man’s attention is actually what leads to a woman being defined by sex. Again, men know what we’re doing when we break out the dirty talk. They are well aware that many of us are using it to keep them interested. While they might return the attention, they are still suspicious of women who employ this tactic.

I was having a conversation with some friends last week. The topic was the challenge many women who write about sex (or dating) have in regards to being taken seriously. The key, I think, is to present a more well-rounded persona. If the most notable stories a writer has in her arsenal are of the sexual variety, then she will then become identified and defined by sex. However, if she offers pieces on other topics that are equally authentic and provocative, she has a better chance of being seen as a whole person and not just a bunch of hormones with an iPad. To break it down, if you don’t want a guy to want you just for sex, then don’t use sex to keep his interest. If you do, put out. That’s it. What you truly want, OP, is for this guy to return your level of interest. It’s not that you fear that he just wants sex. You fear that you’re playing the fool. So don’t. That is a conscious choice.

At the beginning I think he was genuinely interested in who I was, but then I got the impression he merely wanted to have sex with me.

Typically, if a guy is genuinely interested,  it’s the other way around. I can’t tell if you and he ended up sleeping together or not. If you did, and all the effort he made previously stopped, then he always just in it for the sex. He didn’t stir your feelings. You did that. You can’t put that on him. You’re in control of your emotions. Not him.

The fact that this guy never replied to your email should tell you everything you need to know. He was looking for something simple. He didn’t want to deal with your Feels. This magical connection you think you had was likely in your head. This is what presents the most difficult hurdle for women. They project their feelings on to the guy. All of them. They tell themselves that because a man did A, B and C that means he truly cares for her. A lot of men will say whatever it is they think will grease the wheels. I’m not sure why so many women don’t understand that. Something else that women need to burn into their brain is that if a man approaches a woman and talks to her in sexual way and plies her with compliments and then says, ‘Why don’t we meet for coffee/a drink to talk” he’s not just looking to talk. Instead of finding his honesty so refreshing and being blinded by his compliments, a woman should feel objectified and insulted.

I think this man has made his intentions clear, OP.

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Filed Under: Dating, Meeting Men, Men To Avoid, Sex, Sexting Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Fifty Shades of Douche

April 25, 2012 by 40 Comments

Interesting article over at The Frisky. This one is about Mad Men’s Don Draper and his supposed S & M fetish.

It’s important to note that no where in the interview with Mad Men’s creator Matt Weiner does he state that Don is into S & M.

“Don’s relationship — and [the] women in his life’s relationship[s] — between power and sex is very closely linked. And I think it’s part of the human experience. I think it’s an animal thing. Powerful men in particular seem to want to be controlled sexually. … I think what you’re seeing is that they do have a vibrant sex life, and she is controlling that part of it, and he likes it. And it’s the way they fight. And it’s kind of her saying to him, ‘You want to be this way? Then you can’t have this,’ and on some level wanting him to realize that he won’t get it. And what I love about it, and what I think is fresh, is that this woman is not judged afterward. It’s very rare for a woman to express that kind of sexual confidence and control and not be the prostitute, and be somebody’s wife and be in a relationship afterward. I’m both sexualizing their relationship and explaining her status in the relationship.”

 

Okay, but…Don does get it. Megan, his wife, does like to taunt him with the possibility that he might not be able to have sex with her should he continue to be the self-centered twat that he is. But she always gives in to him. It’s not as though she’s controlling him at all. More like she’s just issuing empty threats because she’s a child and that’s how children argue. It’s not so much a submissive/dominant dynamic as it is a parent/child dynamic. Megan is willfull, but it’s an act. There is no maturity or even distribution of power or control to Don and Megan’s relationship. Don is the one in control throughout. In fact, Don exerts a disturbing level of control over Megan. Megan was a failed actress who worked some entry level job at Don’s agency. Of course she’s going to find Don impressive. That’s part of the plan. Don is a damaged human being with a woefully fragile ego. He will never be with an equal.

I wonder if when women swoon over Jon Hamm they’re really expressing attraction to Don Draper. Hamm seems humble and sweet in interviews. And, of course, he’s quite handsome. I’m not saying all women actually want Don and not Jon. However, I genuinely believe what really draws some women to Hamm is the darker side to Don Draper’s personality.These women will never admit it, but only because, I believe, they aren’t aware of it.

Don is a narcissist. That’s what compels him to be so assertive and confident. He has to win. If you notice, he flames out whenever a client doesn’t immediately take to his campaign suggestions. He has to have the last word. Any blow like this to his ego throws him off his game. That’s why the women he chooses are noticeably weaker – emotionally, physically, professionally – than he is. He can not take on an equal. He has to be the dominant partner at all times.

Speaking of which…

Hi Moxie,

Have you read or at least heard of this Fifty Shades of Grey book? I begrudgingly read it for a book club I’m involved in and am still seeing red. Even more so when I went to the club and half the girls thought this guy would have been relationship material in the real world. I would almost go so far as to say the book is dangerous to girls and young women. I guess as someone once involved in an extremely destructive emotional sub/dom relationship in my mid 20s…the only thing good about it was it made me go to therapy to see just how fucked up the situation was. Just thought I’d throw it out there…might make an interesting blog post.

There was quite a hub bub last week over Katie Roiphe’s article in Newsweek. In the piece, she suggested that maybe some women, especially those who like to identify as feminists, actually secretly long to surrender in some way to a man like Christian Grey, the lead character in Fifty Shades of Grey. Roiphe suggests that that is part of the fascination with this book.  I’m suggesting, though I doubt I’m the first, that that’s also part of the appeal that Mad Men has for some women.

As strong and as independent as we are, there’s something about these types of dysfunctional men that we find attractive.  We like to battle these men and need to believe we can break them down so that we can feel as though we dominated them. But in order to get to that place we must endure incredible amounts of pain, shame and humiliation. We’re drawn to the psychological warfare these men provide, unaware if how truly damaged and damaging these men usually are.  We mistakenly find them charismatic. These men aren’t charming or cunning or even smart. They are broken individuals. We should fear these men but we don’t.

Ever since the book Fifty Shades of Grey made a splash, there’s been a lot more talk about “kinky” bedroom behavior and submissive/dominant relationships. To me, there’s a difference between intentionally engaging in or taking a submissive or dominant role and just having sex with someone who likes to hurt  or humiliate. It unsettles me at how often the two types of relationships get conflated.

In my mind, true healthy sub/dom relationships  involve a high level of communication and emotional maturity. Those relationships, to me, seem far more psychological than physical. They have to be in order to work.  Each partner has control and exercises it when they choose.

Don and Megan, in my mind, are not acting out some S & M fantasy. I don’t think either one of them have the intelligence or self-awareness required to  understand their dynamic, let alone exploit it for their personal sexual pleasure.

I don’t consider Don to be dominant. I think he’s a bully. And bullies are just cowards. I’m not saying that dating a guy like that can’t be intriguing for awhile. It can. Until, of of course,  it becomes exhausting and destructive. (And those situations always become destructive.) I just wish that some people would stop trying to justify their attraction to guys like Don or Christian Grey as being part of some sexual fantasy.  I think it goes much deeper than that.

I don’t think it’s a desire to be dominated that gets some of the more strong, independent women off. I think the attraction stems from a personal self-loathing or a need to be punished or an addiction to drama.  We’re not turned on by how they dominate us. We’re not even aroused. In those cases, we are not choosing to be dominated. We have no choice at all. We’re stripped of our control rather than willingly surrendering it.

That, to me, is the difference between a “kinky” sub/dom relationship and simply being attracted to assholes. That’s what many of these faux sub/dom situations are: just a woman who likes being treated like shit hiding behind sexual desire and empowerment.

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Filed Under: Dating, Douchey Guys, Kinky, Men To Avoid, Sex, sexuality Tagged With: , , , , , ,

What Do So Many Men Like To Talk About Sex On a 1st Date?

April 23, 2012 by 30 Comments

I have gone on 5 dates this year that were disasters. Immediately (within the first 15 minutes )they asked or hinted that they’d like to sleep with me before even making decent conversation. – Ariel

I have tried before and seem to attract very sweet, attractive men who don’t know how to take care of themselves….not to mention…managing a woman OR men whose conversation is nothing but sexual. – Gina

 

Okey dokes. I want to get to the bottom of this. What, exactly, are these men saying that have ladies believe that they are “just” trying to get into their pants?

Is it me or does this seem to be a very common complaint?

I have a few theories about this phenomenon. Feel free to express your thoughts.

1. The women voicing this complaint are using sex or the idea of sex to sell themselves online. When the man takes the bait, the woman sees that as a sign that he “just” wants sex. Self-fulfilling prophecy at work.

2. The men are horribly socially awkward and don’t realize that what they’re saying is inappropriate.

3. The men are testing the women to see how uptight they are or using inflammatory statements to try and control the dynamic and make the woman vulnerable.

4. These women are picking men based on looks and charm, and probably delving out of their league a bit, and the men are taking them out hoping they can get them in to bed with no interest in anything more. Therefore they don’t care if they offend the ladies with their sexual commentary.

5. These women are all making this all up so that they sound less rigid and picky.

The only time any guy has made any kind of sexual comment towards me on a first date is when I have done something to give him the green light OR because he assumed what I did for a living made me more sexually liberal.

I admit that the persona I have developed has probably forced me to grow a thicker skin and therefore I shrug most of this stuff off now. I also tend to avoid the guys who make their lack of social graces obvious in their profiles or in their email exchanges. Any whiff of too much innuendo and I bail.

I mentioned a few months ago that an ad for Match.com caught my eye. In the commercial, the woman was saying to the man that iPhone users have more sex. The man replied and said he had an Android. The woman laughed and said, “Too bad for you.”

Now, it’s weird to me that a) they would show this exchange at all given how sleazy it could make online dating appear, especially given Match’s recent legal issues surrounding sexual predators using their site and b) it was made to seem as though the woman was the one to initiate the conversation. What are potential users supposed to take from that ad? According to two close male friends, that is a pretty accurate depiction of many of their first online dates. Yet we rarely hear men complain that a woman was tossing around sexual innuendo over cocktails.

I am not saying that I don’t think men who make lecherous comments on a  first date don’t exist. What I’m questioning is how it is possible that so many women seem to have the exact same experience and whether their perceptions are accurate.

So…what do you guys think?

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Filed Under: Awkward, Bad Dates, Date Like a Man, Dating, Hook Up Culture, Men To Avoid, Online Dating, Oral Sex, Red Flags, Sex Tagged With: , , , ,

The Serenity Prayer for Online Daters

April 9, 2012 by 48 Comments

Name: Rosie
Age: 36
Website:
Question: Hi Moxie

In the past week, I’ve had a few dates where the person has revealed a huge dealbreaker, such as dishonesty, drug use, or a major health or lifestlye issue they are not willing to address.

Date 1:

Advertised himself as 45 years old, with pictures of a himself in his mid to late 40′s.  In real life, he looked 65 and had children close to my age, very old fashioned mannerisms, and talked mostly about his health problems.  He went to the bathroom five times (enlarged prostate).  When he hugged me goodbye, rubbed my back and told me I was his “beautiful soulmate” I physically cringed.

Date 2:

Revealed during the date that he smoked cigarettes and the “other stuff” even though his profile stated he was a non-smoker.  His smoking has gotten him hospitalized several times because he has chronic and severe asthma.  I have mild asthma and was recovering from a chest infection and asked him not to smoke in front of me.  He agreed, but 30 minutes later lit up… twice.

Date 3:

At 48 years of age, is planning to release his first record despite having no experience in music, being unable to play an instrument, sing, write music or lyrics.  He plans on singing the tunes over the telephone to music company in another country, who will produce a digital master.  He will hire professionals to do the artwork, and have ten thousand CDs printed.  His janitor job does not provide enough money to finance this venture, and his credit is not good enough to borrow from the bank, so he is going to borrow money from a local lender.

Others:

A number of men I’m communicating with online make plans to call at a certain time, then don’t call.  Then they say they will call the next day, but don’t call.  Or they arrange a date then cancel 24 hours or less before the date, or “disappear” while arranging a time and date.  And worst is the man who asks for a date on a certain day, then says he will call or text on the day of the date to finalize arrangements but cancels hours or minutes before the date.

All of the above real scenarios are dealbreakers for me.  How can I vet the men I agree to date more carefully?   I’d love to hear your thoughts and get your readers’ input.

 

Hmm…this really is a parade of losers. I’m not sure there is any way to eradicate any chance you’ll ever meet a guy like this again, though. But I’ll take a stab at tips to help you prevent meeting too many of such kinds of people.

Give Me The Serenity to Accept The Things I Can Not Change

Yes, I just quoted The Serenity Prayer. The first thing you need to do is understand that having the occasional bad date or meeting someone who looks nothing like their photos or who isn’t completely honest is a staple part of online dating. Appropriate your expectations. Some people are deluded or don’t have an accurate perception of how they look. You need to accept that.

Give Me The Courage To Change The Things I Can

This starts with paying closer attention to the details that the person provides. Here are my basic rules of thumb:

1. I wouldn’t meet any man that didn’t have at least 3 photos on his profile. The photos all had to be clear shots of his full face and at least one full body shot. The pictures also could not be grainy or look outdated/hazy in any way. Only one photo? No dice. They also all need to be from different points. Not the same session. No distance shots, no profile shots, no shots with sunglasses or hats. Basically, no hiding.

2. No shabby dressers/photos of them in slovenly looking/dark apartments - Sounds like a no brainer but you’d be surprised. People pose in poor lighting for a reason.

3. Pay attention to their skin tone/hair/weight – You can tell the difference between someone healthy and unhealthy. A pasty/yellow tinged skin tone is an absolute no no for me. As is any admission to frequent drinking or drug use beyond pot. And even that I try to avoid if I can.

4. No references to having made mistakes “like everybody else” or not being perfect - Jesus, just post your criminal record if you’re going to say that.

5. No oversharers - These men you’ve dated all show signs of classic oversharing and lacking in self-awareness. I will guarantee you they showed glimpses of this in their profiles.

6. No pipe dreamers – Sorry, but if some guy is in his late thirties to forties and he’s still plugging away at being a musician, artist or actor, I bail. That is, unless he states out right that he makes a living at said profession. I don’t care how pissy some of you get – dating someone who is still struggling to establish himself at a career at that age is self-involved and irresponsible. They won’t be able to make a relationship any form of a priority. Plus they’re usually unstable in some way.

7. No creepy/off vibes - How any of these men didn’t trip off some trigger within you is beyond me. There’s no way these buffoons are able to present themselves well in their profiles. No way.  Avoid guys that make you go, “Meh.”

Give Me The Wisdom to Know The Difference

Here’s where you come in. We all have had the occasional bad date. But that seems to be the norm for you. Your radar is way, way off. You need to learn how to pick up on signs of ambivalence and moderate interest.

1. Get rid of the phone step – There. That was easy. I will bet many of these men are ditching you strictly because you are requesting a phone call.

2. Don’t accept vague plans - If a guy says he’ll follow up with you to “finalize” plans, he’s moderately interested at best or exploring other options. Try to get him to confirm plans in the very conversation where you agree to meet. If he’s not willing to do that, detach. If he says he’ll follow up tell him that’s fine and cut bait.

3. Be proactive - You’re leaving way too much up to the man. You need to take a bit more control here. Get a list of places together that are no more than 20-30 minutes away from you so you can offer up locations/meeting spots. Be prepared. Know your schedule. Suggest a specific night and time and location. The next day, don’t wait for them to follow up. You do it. Some of these situations could simply be a lack of communication or similar disconnect.

4. Don’t engage anybody that takes too long to respond without offering a viable excuse. Once that dialogue begins, it shouldn’t be staggered over a few days. If they’re not replying in a timely fashion, or they drop out of a conversation, they’re simply not interested enough. Move on.

2-4 emails over 48 hours, make the date, meet. That’s it. Anything else is a waste of time.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating Over 40, First Impressions, Latests Posts, Men To Avoid, OKCupid, Online Dating, Red Flags Tagged With: , , , ,

Beware The Man Who Commits Too Soon

January 15, 2012 by 109 Comments

Name: Carina
State: Florida
Age: 32

Comment: Moxie,

I moved to Florida last August from NYC.  Dating here has been great!  So much better than in NYC I have to say. I dated a few guys my first few months here and then I met a great guy 1st week of December.  We hit it off right away and we started a committed relationship within our first week.  It has moved quite fast.  We’ve only been together a bit over a month now but I can already feel he’s the one for me.  Of course since I’ve never moved into a relationship so quickly (and being a jaded New Yorker), I cant help but question the relationship sometimes.  I’ve been staying at his place 2-3 nights a week and he asked me yesterday if I would like some area in his closet to put my things because I go back and forth with a bag but I always need things that I don’t have with me plus my daily personal things etc.  And its getting annoying to be carrying a bag back and forth.  Also, this morning he mentioned that he would get me a key to his place.  He works from home most days and sometimes hes in the office on long business calls and when I get there after work Ive had to wait until hes done with his calls to open the door… I also use his gym sometimes or go in and out to get whatever so I dont know I guess hes thinking it would just be easier I guess…  Hes asked me a couple of times if I would feel comfortable living there and I think I would.  We already told each other we are in love, he met my family NYE (I havent met his) and we are on the same page in terms of what we are looking for… family, children…  He even asked me if it is something Im looking for in the near future.  He says hes ready for it and has hinted that within a year he would like to be moving forward with that plan which is exactly my wish.  We are the same age btw, 32.  Hes taking me on vacay next month to Europe and we just cant wait!  But, what do you think about this closet space and keys situation?  I feel like I want to be with him ALL the time.   And while this situation may sound great feeling the way I feel about him, Im afraid it may ruin what we have or may even make it too comfortable and easy for him (isnt it againts “the rules”?) and he may never pop the question.  What do you think?  I dont want to regret my choices later on…
State: Florida

 

You’re asking a lot of good questions. Unfortunately, you’re not asking the one question you should be asking.

Why is this man in such a rush?

I’ll say it. This situations feels all kinds of shady to me.

We hit it off right away and we started a committed relationship within our first week.

You can’t be serious that you think this is in any way normal or healthy. It’s not. Forget about all those stories you hear from friends and on websites or blogs. While a small percentage of these examples might actually be healthy, the large majority of them are not. Either somebody’s desperation or loneliness is being exploited or they’re both emotionally unhealthy people who happened to find each other, as most emotionally unhealthy people do.  That’s it.

Right now, you’re just so excited that you’ve met a man who not only wants to commit but wants to do it as soon as possible that you’re not seeing this situation clearly. You’ve crammed a bunch of milestones in to 6 weeks. Really think about that. Does that sound rational to you? Do you think it’s wise to be discussing children with someone you’ve been dating all of 6 weeks? Especially when you haven’t even met his family? Who the hell knows what sort of defective DNA he might possibly be carrying with him. These are the things that need to be considered when discussing children. People don’t just say, “Hey! Let’s have a baby!” There are things to be considered, many of which require that you have a clear and strong understanding of your partner’s values and history.

He works from home most days and sometimes hes in the office on long business calls and when I get there after work Ive had to wait until hes done with his calls to open the door

Um…what? He makes you stand out in the hall while he finishes his calls? And you don’t see anything wrong with that?

Right now he’s keeping you preoccupied with trips and sweet sentiments and offers of commitment. Why? You need to ask him why he’s in such a rush. You also need to ask yourself how it is possible you don’t think any of this is weird because your warning bells should be clattering so loud that you can’t hear yourself think.

I do not trust any relationship that starts off this quickly and intensely. Sorry. The only people who move this fast are either people with an agenda that has nothing to do with love or people who are needy and co-dependent.  Now, maybe you’re co-dependent, too. Maybe you two are both co-dependent people who have found each other. Super. Unhealthy people find each other all the time. But you two are talking co-habitation, possibly merging some of your finances…and children. Capital B Big Deal. These are not things you jump in to.

Im afraid it may ruin what we have

What exactly is it that you have? What could you have possibly developed in 6 weeks that is so profound? You are so caught up in the trappings of this relationship that you are ignoring the blaring sirens. He’s got a great apartment, he works from home, he’s taking you on a trip, he’s met your family, he’s said the “L” word. What do you really know about this man? And no, I’m not suggesting you do a back ground check. I’m suggesting you wake up, take off those rose colored glasses and ask yourself why you’re so willing to go along with this romance. I get that you moved from a  city that has a dearth of commitment-minded men. I understand. But that makes this story even more questionable. The new in town single woman desperate for a man who will commit meets one that commits in a week. It’s too perfect.

I’m telling you. No healthy  man is jumping to commit after this short of a time frame. No way. If they do, they’re either really desperate or shady. Men know that the best way to get a woman to behave the way he would like her to behave is to agree to be her boyfriend and “commit.” It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Once he gives her that, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. He will point to that one gesture to “prove” his worthiness and use it every chance he gets.

You need to take a few steps back and look at this situation objectively. You also need to get some background on his relationship history. This guy has either scared every woman off or he has moved a few other women in to this apartment only to have things dissolve soon after.

 

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Filed Under: Beware, Biological Clocks, Book, Commitment, Dating, Latests Posts, Managing Expectations, Marriage, Men To Avoid, Monogamy, Red Flags, Shackin' Up Tagged With: , , , ,

Do Men Really Love Bitches?

December 5, 2011 by 63 Comments

Name: Breebree
State: MD
Age: 34
Comment: Moxie, I got this question thinking about the last posts where the OP thinks she is having a hard time getting dates because she is “nice.” I also have the book “Why Men Love Bitches.” From what I’ve seen and heard this seems to be true…it seems like men and people in general respond quicker and more to people when they are “bitches” or mean and nasty and/or curse them out.

I know that generally speaking folks will do what you allow them to do. If you don’t allow people to talk to you and treat you any kind of way and command respect then they will respect you. However with regards to relationships the men friends I talk to initially get with women who are azzholes or bitches or have lots of drama and they constantly complain about them and curse the day they met them, married them, and had kids by them and then get burned by them and then complain and feel stupid and lament “woe is me” stories. It’s so nerve-wracking. I have a guy friend who we I got along well with and we would always laugh and joke and I would give him massages if he was tired and sore and he would always say how much he liked me and enjoyed my company and we would talk about any and everything.

Yet for months he dealt with a woman who clearly showed him she only wanted him for what he did for her and if he had money. When this guy had no job she cheated on him and treated him like crap and didn’t want to be bothered unless she wanted him to do something. He allowed her to belittle him and emasculate him and treat her any type of way and (just like many women do) hung on to the hope that she might change and was ever mindful of the good times they had in the beginning. I would always ask him “why do you let this woman treat you like this?” “why do you think this is good and normal?” I even asked him why he wouldn’t date me and he really couldn’t give me a straight answer.

He did say it was like this woman had a hold on him. He gave her his heart completely and had a hard time just snatching it back no matter how wrong she did him. I’ve talked to several other men who complain to me about their ex’s and how sheisty they are and how much drama and problems they had with these women and I ask them “why the hell did you get with these women in the first place?” All they can say is in the beginning it was good, or some will say it was because of looks but some say they didn’t be with and marry their ex for their looks but they can never really explain why they are attracted to these “toxic women”. In some cases I think some men are attracted to women with kids, drama, problems, and issues (no matter what they look like). In the last post Are Men Attracted to Nice Girls I think the answer is no…just as women like bad boys sometimes men like bad women. Because the women who are nice, sweet, kind, loving, no drama, no problems, and women who would go out of their way to make them happy they don’t want.
My question is why is this and what is your opinion on this???

 

Healthy, stable men will date the “bitchy” woman for a bit, either because the woman is hot or she knocks it out of the park in bed. Or both.  But they won’t date them for long or marry them. That is,  unless those men enjoy being bossed around, henpecked and generally enjoy being emasculated. Yes, in many cases, it is the woman’s looks that keeps these low self-esteemed men around. Being with a “hot” woman gives them a sense of social proof. But I think there’s more to it, which I will get to below.

I think the real question you are asking, which you mentioned, is how come these men will date all these “wrong” women and not date you? Here’s why: They aren’t attracted to you.  It’s not because you are too good or too sane or just not “bad” enough. It’s that they just don’t find you attractive enough to date. Having you on their arm does not bolster their social status. They aren’t looking for tenderness or nurturing. They’re looking for a hot girlfriend so they can trot her out at work functions and show her off. They want to be with a woman who pays attention to them by criticizing them. They only know how to work for a woman’s approval. There are many, many relationships with that dynamic. To the two people in that kind of relationship, the dynamic works for them. Is it unhealthy? Yep. But I’d guess that a hefty percentage of all long term relationships are.

You have to understand that the book, “Why Men Love Bitches” doesn’t really support the theory that men love bitches. That book was given a provocative title so it would sell. Of course, as many of us did with Sex and The City, we didn’t really understand that we were being presented with caricatures and exaggerations. Women just heard the title to that book and assumed that being “bitchy” was okay because men “love” that.

Do men love women who know what they want and go after it and speak their mind? Yes. Absolutely. But if she doesn’t posses both vulnerability and consistency, he’s out.  Inconsistency leads to unpredictability, and unpredictability leads to drama. So, if a woman is laid back and easy going the first few weeks of dating, and then becomes demanding and rigid, what a man sees is inconsistency. If he sees us being more flexible towards female friends who behave badly than we are men, that’s inconsistency. If we stand on our feminist soapbox and demand equality, but then look at him with expectant eyes when the bill gets placed on the table, he sees inconsistency.Inconsistency = bad.

just as women like bad boys sometimes men like bad women.

I agree that many women like a “bad boy.” But there’s two phases to this. There’s the attraction to the guy who are genuinely bad or unhealthy for us. Then, as we mature and date our share of the bad boys, we realize that we still want a guy with that sort of edge and mystery to him but who also has a sense of vulnerability about him.

ATWYSBlog

@ATWYSBlog Jeremy Renner is the perfect mix of dark with an edge and vulnerability. #thatswhatwomenwant

The men and women who go for the traditional “bitches” and “bad boys” have a need for approval. It’s that simple. Those of us who crave approval will go for the unavailable man or woman, hoping against hope that we can change them. My guess is this all starts with the dynamic they had with their parents. If they had a particularly critical mother or father, or one that wasn’t around, then they spend their lives trying to re-create that dynamic and right the wrong.

Breebree, I think you hang around with men who have issues and who are drama queens and that has badly distorted your perception of men and relationships in general. Get new friends. Stat.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating Over 40, Latests Posts, Men & Conflict, Men To Avoid, Sex, The Friend Zone, Understanding Men Tagged With: , , , , , ,

Dealing With a Massive Male Ego

October 27, 2011 by 34 Comments

Name: Growing Disinterested
State: NJ
Age: 33
Comment: This is long…So I met a guy from okcupid. We messaged each other for a few days and then nothing for a week from him. I wasn’t meeting anyone that I found interesting so I was going to leave the site. Before I did I sent him a message asking if he was still interested in chatting. He said yes and sorry for not messaging me he was busy with work. We exchanged numbers and a few days later we met. From the first meeting he talks about how he wants a relationship and likes me and doesn’t want to see anyone else. He wanted to know if I was interested in seeing anyone else. To me that meant was I going to be actively searching for someone. I wasn’t so I said so. Focusing on one person would be nice. He did a big song and dance about how he wants me to be open-minded about a future with him. I’m the first to admit I am jaded. Yet I figured what the hell…so I kept an open mind.

We saw each other maybe four more times after the first. Doing nothing more than meeting after work and going back to his place. He has two kids and when we met he had weekends off and would spend the weekends with them. From Friday evening to Sunday evening. Since then his hours at work have changed and he works nights and has off two days during the week. I knew that seeing someone with kids was going to be difficult because of managing time. But I like him and I don’t need to be with him 24/7. I do need to see him though…and not once a week or once every other week (that’s how it was when we met) He kept saying he would make time for me…I think you know where I am going with this…he hasn’t made time. And when I tried to compromise it never worked out. A few times when we made plans they were interrupted because of issues with dropping off his kids or work.

One night I had dinner with a friend who is also an ex. He asked I told and I was honest. Nothing happened between the ex and I except for some good Mexican. Right away I got the you must be cheating…ummm when did we decide we were in a relationship? At the time of the dinner I hadn’t seen okcupid guy in two weeks. But because in the past when HE has met up with an ex he has had sex with them he thinks that everyone does that. I’m sure many do…My ex knew I was seeing someone and knew sex wasn’t happening. After that our conversations were usually around “I thought you would be patient and understanding (concerning the job and kids) I guess you aren’t so do you.” Meanwhile if I missed a call or didn’t respond to a text in under two 2.5 seconds I got an “are you ok?” text. When I would talk to him I would be reminded that I wasn’t around when he tried to reach me before and that I must have been busy.

It has been two months since first meeting and three weeks since we last saw each other, talking less and less. He hasn’t even made an attempt to see me. When I asked if he wanted to stop seeing me (why ask him, you wonder? Because I wanted to know if he cared) he answered with a “why would you say that” question. Come to find out he still has his profile up on okcupid even though he said he would take it down. Mine was disabled and I wanted to delete for good. Honestly I really don’t care if he still has his profile up. What hurt me was the fact that according to him he never went on the site yet a picture he took for me he is using as his profile pic. Proving he has been on the site recently. He is free to see other people. But he shouldn’t be harping on me having dinner with an ex if he won’t make the time to see me. Yes he IS busy so maybe he shouldn’t be trying to date…at least not me.

I have been laying low since the profile thing and he has gone back to calling me every night when he gets home at around 1:30a. Our small talk is painful but he is making an effort. No mention of us seeing each other. The more time that passes the less interested I become. Should I just fade away and cease contact or do you think he deserves a proper “I’m going to see other people” conversation or should he get nothing and I just do me and if it happens that I see him I see him?

 

So I met a guy from okcupid. We messaged each other for a few days and then nothing for a week from him.

First red flag. If a week goes by and the other person hasn’t followed up or responded, move on. I keep saying this. If the conversation goes on longer than a couple days, move on.  Someone who is interested and available is taking things offline with in a week. Or they’re at least explaining why they are unable to do so other than “work is really crazy.” That’s it. By tracking him down, you played your hand and let him know you were sort of desperate.

From the first meeting he talks about how he wants a relationship and likes me and doesn’t want to see anyone else.

Red flag #2. Weird that he’s so all in on the first date, but you had to be the one to initiate the conversation again.Too Much, Too Soon Guy. Avoid. It is completely irrational that eh would want to jump in to something consistent when his previous behavior was so inconsistent.

I’m the first to admit I am jaded. Yet I figured what the hell…so I kept an open mind.

No. No no no.  This is not you being open and flexible. This is you going for a guy that you know is bad for you. Women keep using this excuse for the wrong reasons. You were lonely and maybe feeling a little desperate. Admitting that is going to make getting over these situations much, much easier and prevent you from doing it again. We all feel this way from time to time. There is no shame in it. The shame is in denying it and justifying it by lying to yourself. Do that for long enough and you’ll start to believe it.

He asked I told and I was honest.

There was no need to be totally honest here. You two weren’t exclusive and you knew that the dinner was innocent. Nothing happened. No need to go in to detailed explanations. My guess is you were trying to make him jealous.

He is free to see other people. But he shouldn’t be harping on me having dinner with an ex if he won’t make the time to see me.

He wouldn’t have been harping on you if you hadn’t told him. Admit it, you liked that he feigned offense at what you did. You think it some how meant he cared. Only it didn’t. He just likes guilting women so they do what he wants. It’s controlling. You made yourself vulnerable to him the minute you followed up with him. He had you, and he played you.And when you told him about your dinner, you exposed yourself even more. Men know what we’re doing when we do these things. Usually, they just ignore or avoid our attempts at getting this kind of attention. The unhealthy guys are the ones to react like this. Those are the possessive, controlling, insecure guys.

Should I just fade away and cease contact or do you think he deserves a proper “I’m going to see other people” conversation or should he get nothing and I just do me and if it happens that I see him I see him?

He doesn’t deserve a proper anything. The only reason you’d want to do this is in the hopes that he will suddenly change and realize what he had and try to win you back. He’s not going to do that. And even if he did, it would be disingenuous. This tool hates the idea of a woman moving on or leaving him first, despite the fact that he avoids and ignores them until he wants something. He’s got a massive, yet fragile, ego.

He wants to know that you are thinking of him and only him. He may not spend much time with you or make much effort, but he still expects to be a priority. He had you chase him down and pursue him – ego stroke. You agreed to engage in some form of a relationship after one date – ego stroke. He pours it on thick and says all the right things strictly so you will become enamored of him – ego stroke. He doesn’t want a relationship. He wants attention and validation. He wants to have you jump when he says jump.  When you told him you had dinner with an ex, he wasn’t afraid of losing you, per se. He was afraid that he had lost the top spot for your attention and affection.

This guy wants to be chased and pursued. That feeds his delusional beliefs and ego. This is no different than the women who avoid phone calls or texts or cancel dates. They want to be wooed and pursued. It’s all ego driven. They want to feel special, like they are a priority.

No, you shouldn’t deal with him further or offer any form of a Dear John explanation. All that will do is trigger his need to “win.” He’ll offer some lame attempt at an apology, provide a modicum of attention just to get you back in the fold, and then it will start all over again.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating The Crazy, Latests Posts, Meeting Men, Men To Avoid, Online Dating, Red Flags, Signs of Interest Tagged With: , , , ,

Deja Screw

June 26, 2011 by 22 Comments

Name: Katie |  | Location: Minneapolis , MN |Question: I recently met “Doug” at my local watering hole and briefly spoke.   4 days later he found me on Facebook with only 2 obscure tidbits of information I had given him. We chatted online, then via text and after work one Friday he asked if he could stop by and hang out with me, I said yes. We laughed, had a few drinks, and hung out.  He seemed genuinely interested in everything I was doing. He had told me at some point that evening that he was really busy all the time that he had a hard time getting back to people and making time for everyone, it would be a trait that I wouldn’t like about him. After our first date I waited to hear back from him but after about a week nothing.  I texted to say hi and ask if he was interested, if not I’d “disappear”. He said he was, so I let it go.

Another week goes by and nothing.  I texted him and told him I’d be in his area later perhaps we could get together and hang out again.  He invited me over to his place and after a couple of drinks we slept together but he assured me that we’d be getting together again soon for he liked me and was going to try to make time for “this”.

I waited for 2-3 weeks and heard nothing.  I texted him again to ask he was still interested, for it didn’t seem so, and his reply was yes. He said we could get together the following week, that I could text him then so I did and he said he was working non-stop (he’s an actor with 3 jobs) and he’d get together with me soon, when I pressed him for how long “soon” be, he just replied with soon.  I let it alone and after 2 weeks he texted me to let me know he hadn’t forgotten about me, hoped I was doing well.  I replied that I was and nothing..

3 weeks later, my g-friend and I were out in his area club hopping and I found out from the bar staff that he worked at the club we were at. So I texted him to let him know where we were, he replied that he was at a shoot, to text him later, he may be able to hang out if it wasn’t too late.  My g-friend and I left for a bit, came back for a cigarette on the patio then decided to leave.  As I was getting into my car, when “Doug” taps me on the shoulder and tells me that he had been looking for me. He got irritated for he thought I really hadn’t been there. Resolving the issue, I told him who our server was by name and he asked if I wanted to come over to his place for a drink, I agreed.  At that point, it had been 2 months since we’d seen each other I was convinced he wasn’t interested in what I had to say so I kept things lite. He wanted to know what I’d been doing, what projects I had been working on etc. He showed me his day planner indicating that he’d been as busy as he said, then ended it with “well, I’m sure you still don’t believe me..”  After about an hour of conversation, we again had sex. I stayed over at his request this time, and when it came time for me to leave he was very hurried and dismissive.  The following day I texted him and asked if he was really wanting to date me or just have casual sex, for he really seemed bored with what I had to say the night before.

He replied with “ oooh, Katie, I think your wonderful and you do not bore me in the least.  I very much like hanging out with you and loved seeing you the other night.  I would very much like to keep in contact and see you again for sure, but I’m awful in relationships so that’s not what you want. I’m a big fan of you so you need to tell me what you want hun, xoxo”

I told him that I never said I wanted a relationship, but I liked what we had for the time being, that maybe I’d see him in a couple of months or something.. he replied with a “YES!!”
The thing I’m confused about is that he’s extremely attentive and “formal” when we are together; He politely asks me if I’d like to come in, opens the door, takes off my shoes and puts them aside, makes me my favorite drink, samples it to taste, takes my purse for me, lights my cigarette then hands it to me before he lights his own, when I leave he gathers all my clothes and gives me privacy to change, and walks me out to the car.. this is part of why I like him as much as I do. Granted I’m not new to this game, but that seems quite a lot of effort to just have sex..

I’m sure it’s not retrievable at this point but not sure what I had done wrong here.. I wanted to know from the beginning if he was interested so I didn’t get attached, and now I have after 4 months.  Please don’t’ tell me it’s because I slept with him because in some cases I’ve waited several months or a couple of dates and I get the same response every time. HELP!
|Age: 41

I had a whole other post written and scrapped it. It was really ranty and flamey and just not productive. I was clearly angry at myself (still!) for having engaged in something so eerily similar.

What I hear is someone lonely so she’s grabbing on to whatever she can. You can be 41 or 21 and be affected by profound loneliness. It sucks and I’m sorry if you’re experiencing that.

Reality? This guy is not interested in you in any capacity. He doesn’t care about your day to day goings on. He probably doesn’t even listen. His feigned annoyance at how he thought you were jerking him around at the club was just that. Fake outrage. It was done to put you in a position where you’d feel guilty for questioning him and make you less likely to push him to offer more or follow through on his word. He’s bailing because you’re putting a whole lot of importance on whatever it is he can give you. You’re clinging to his every pseudo, faux promise. He doesn’t want to totally cut you loose because he doesn’t want to lose you on his list of air bags on which he can crash when he needs it. But he also doesn’t want you digging your claws in deeper. Yes, if you just kept your mouth shut and waited, he’d probably eventually contact you. But that’s not what you want.

He showed me his day planner indicating that he’d been as busy as he said, then ended it with “well, I’m sure you still don’t believe me..”

This kind of behavior makes me all kinds of stabby. Oh, I believe he’s been busy. What I don’t believe is that he’s been so busy that he didn’t have time to see you. Statements like “well I’m sure you don’t believe me” are said with the intention of making him look wounded and hurt.  Fuck. That.  He’s not misunderstood. The only person who misunderstands him is him.

You aren’t attached to him. In fact, I’ll bet you know he brings nothing to the table in terms of personality, depth or character. But he looks good. And it feels good to have someone pay attention to you. That’s what you’re attached to. Not the man. The attention.

He replied with “ oooh, Katie, I think your wonderful and you do not bore me in the least.  I very much like hanging out with you and loved seeing you the other night.  I would very much like to keep in contact and see you again for sure, but I’m awful in relationships so that’s not what you want. I’m a big fan of you so you need to tell me what you want hun, xoxo”

Make note of something….”very much.” “Big fan.” “In the least.” “For sure.” He is grossly over selling this. And….he’s putting the onus on you to detach. He’s not going to do it. He’s wrapping up in a bow what is an obvious attempt to get you to leave him alone. If you choose to end things, then he’s off the hook. From the start he set the terms of this arrangement. The minute you slept with him you agreed to them.

I wanted to know from the beginning if he was interested so I didn’t get attached, and now I have after 4 months.

Okay but you didn’t need to know what his interest level was to determine how YOU should think or react. That’s all up to you. You’re trying to pin the blame on him for why you got attached. Granted, he played in to this a little bit…but mostly this was alll you. This guy was up front about who he was and what he could offer.

The thing I’m confused about is that he’s extremely attentive and “formal” when we are together; He politely asks me if I’d like to come in, opens the door, takes off my shoes and puts them aside, makes me my favorite drink, samples it to taste, takes my purse for me, lights my cigarette then hands it to me before he lights his own, when I leave he gathers all my clothes and gives me privacy to change, and walks me out to the car.. this is part of why I like him as much as I do. Granted I’m not new to this game, but that seems quite a lot of effort to just have sex..

Lighting your cigarette and sampling your drink? It’s nothing. NOTHING. Mr. Belvedere there is simply investing. Doing things so he’ll be perceived as “good” and “interested.” Handling you your balled up clothes is NOTHING. You are clinging to someone who offered you nothing. Do you see that? Because if you don’t, then you are doomed to repeat this, and apparently have been repeating this pattern.

Please don’t’ tell me it’s because I slept with him because in some cases I’ve waited several months or a couple of dates and I get the same response every time.

This isn’t some phenomenon exclusive to you. Women all over the country, probably the world, get this treatment. The reason why is that we take what ever these men will give us. I can guarantee you that this guy has a multitude of women out there crying in their beer about him. You’re settling for men who are “meh” about you, and who are probably “meh” about most women. They’re not looking for anything or anyone of substance. They’re looking for ports in a storm. You’re falling for the exterior, the looks, the charm. You’re not taking the time to really examine who these men are.  The thing is, these guys specifically usually TELL us who they are. We just don’t listen. Men who slap a disclaimer on what it means or is like to be involved with them should immediately be relegated to “no” territory.

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