Is It Normal To Have This Many Bad Online Dates?

Name: MJdramaqueen2
Comment: Hi there-

My question is…where do I find men to date if I refuse to date online?

I am 39. Been Divorced 3 years. Dated online for 2…with disasterous results. I am pretty nice looking and in shape (especially by midwest standards) so I do not have a problem getting men to respond online. BUT- I have met literally nothing but horrible people. So bad, I started keeping a spreadsheet. In 6 months, I went out on many first dates. 9 of the guys were not actually divorced (though they said they were), 4 guys were still really married with active wives, 5 lied about their ages by between 8-10 years, 2 had DUIs and couldn’t drive, one guy called his ex the C word within 10 minutes of our meeting, one guy was an ex-felon twice over,  most of them tried to start talking sex before we even met (citing “need chemistry, dated a lot of dead fish, must know we have similar sexual tastes before we bother meeting”)and one very, very sweet man who gave me a few fantastic dates but was unfortunately affixed with a micro penis….seriously, like nothing I had ever seen.

So, I quit online dating in February. I go out with my girlfriends all the time. We do lots of events where there are lot of men. Beer tastings, parties, charities, etc. I meet men all the time. Chat with them all night. Give them my number. Exchange texts…they can’t wait to see me again. And then? I never hear from them. Just…..don’t. I don’t know why they asked for my number in the first place. I don’t know why they texted me and then stopped. I am literally fun and pressure free.

So…what do I do? Any advice?
Age: 39
City: Detroit
State: MI

I’m thinking there are three things at work:

First, you have you horrific taste in men. Nobody has that many bad experiences by chance. Nobody. Your radar is either on the fritz or you pay attention to the wrong things, my friend.

Second, you sound a tad insufferable. That might explain why so many of these men bail on you after initial conversations or one date. How long did it take you to think up the phrase “unfortunately affixed with a micro-penis.” That sentence was written with the intention of eliciting laughs and high fives from the girls.  You don’t get to decide if you’re fun and pressure free. That’s for others to determine. People who self-identify as such typically are the opposite.

Third, you enjoy the drama. You created a spreadsheet? You don’t say! You must be so organized and efficient! Drafting a flow chart of all your bad dates is no different than blogging about them. You get something from these bad dates. Maybe it’s attention or sympathy. Maybe it’s a laugh from friends who think your stories are so delightfully entertaining. Or maybe you just love sticking it to guys because it gives you some sense of control over the whole process. Personally, I think it’s all of the above. You enjoy dwelling on all of these horror stories. You’d rather have the bad dates than actually have a guy stick around. You’ve convinced yourself that you’re too good for most men or that the guys you meet aren’t on your level or whatever it is that delusional people tell themselves to explain why they can’t get a date. You’re no different than the men who roll in here on a regular basis to talk about all the serial daters and attention seekers who never answer their emails. The bottom line is that you’re both choosing poorly. You believe that there is nobody out there who will appreciate you. Hence why you never meet anyone with potential. It’s a bad combination of confirmation bias and self-victimization that causes your lack of success.

When I hear someone talk about how bad online dating is and listen to them drone on and on about all the losers they’ve met, I think one thing:  They couldn’t make online dating work to their advantage. They shot way out of their league and came up empty handed time and again.What these folks are actually trying to do is sway others away from using online dating so they can feel like less of a failure. I know. I’ve done it. Equally annoying are the people who don’t even date online that have to preface their opinions about online dating with, “I’ve never done online dating but…”  Translation: Ugh. You poor losers. I don’t have to stoop to trolling dating sites. This just in: meeting someone offline doesn’t make you more attractive or desirable. It means nothing.

Online dating success requires 3 things:

1. Know your audience aka stop shooting out of your league. Sorry, but there are just some people you will never, ever date.

2. Accept that some people suck.

3. Understand that a profile will not help you determine long-term compatibility. That’s what the dates are for.

Online dating works. It does. It is probably one the easiest ways to meet people and get dates. Do I think it’s a great way to find last love? No. But then I don’t think meeting through friends is a sure fire way to find commitment either. It’s all about what you do with the opportunities that are presented to you. If you think it sucks, it will suck. It’s that simple. Lower your expectations and you’ll rarely be disappointed. I can honestly count on one hand how many “bad” dates I’ve had in the last few years. And by bad I mean “didn’t turn into anything memorable.” I have yet to meet a felon or secretly married man. What’s my secret? I don’t go out with everybody who asks. I’m perfectly okay not going out on date night or not having something to yap about on Facebook and Twitter.

OP, if you’re utilizing all the available options to meet men and you can’t seem to get one guy to stick around or are unable to meet someone of quality, the problem is with you. You want me to tell you that men are intimidated by you or weak or a mess. Nope. Not doing it.

 

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What’s Up With These Awful OK Cupid Messages?

Name: APralph3
Comment: I’ve recently joined OkayCupid and I’m a little baffled at bit of behavior I’ve seen and was hoping for some insight.

Living in the Midwest I feel that the dating experience for gay men and women is a little more limited when compared to our straight counterparts.  I recall recently reading about a study that said over 61% of same-sex couples say they’ve met partners through and online dating sites compared with just 13% of opposite-sex partners.  I realize for a smaller community of people connecting online allows users to meet a greater number of people more quickly than they would in person and this avenue includes a lesser risk of rejection as well.

Since rejoining the online dating world I’ve received a fair number of emails that have caught me off guard.  For example…

“Hi. I saw that you visited my profile and just wanted to see what was goin’ on. :)

“Couldn’t help but notice you checked out my profile. I returned the favor. I think you did a nice job of filling it out. Its good to know you still have all you non essential appendiges, lol. Would be interested in getting to know you sometime. Message me back if you like.”

Moxie, I’m confused.  Admittedly, I’ve been out of the online dating loop for a while but is this what communication has boiled down to?  It’s not so much the content that has me confused, it’s how both people began their emails.  Remember in middle school when kids would pass those “Do you like me? Check Yes, No or Maybe” notes around?  This seems to be a more grown-up, passive-aggressive version of that.

I’m glad that I’m receiving ANY replies to my profile but it’s the tone of these that bother me so much.  Is this how people start conversations online these days?  I could care less if these guys chose to contact me because they saw me on their Visitors list but what happened to basic social skills?  Would these guys walk up to someone in public and say “I saw you glance at me across the street and thought I’d say hi”.  Would these people still have messaged me if they HADN’T seen my profile on their Visitors list?  It feels like the online equivalent of the guy in the corner of a bar waiting for someone to make eye contact so they can start a conversation.

I feel it’s worth mentioning that normally the senders of these emails are not the type of people I would choose to contact myself.  Very low Match %, doesn’t match my stated preferences in my profile, etc.

Moxie, should I reply to these emails?  If I do, what should I even say?

I try to make it a point to reply to every email I get (within reason) and in doing so I’ve established some great friendships with people I don’t consider compatible with myself on a romantic level.  Is it wrong for me to be so off-put by how these guys chose to contact me?  I’m normally not so uptight just confused about the lack of basic social skills and tact.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Age: 28
City: Omaha
State: Nebraska

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the messages that were sent to you. These guys are smart. They’re going through their visitors and contacting people who viewed their profile. That’s what online daters should be doing rather than sending a bunch of random messages to people who haven’t initiated some for of interest.

I’m not sure what it is you’re expecting with these emails. And that’s your problem. You’re expecting something more, something different. Why? Because you feel these guys whose league you feel you are out of should be working harder to impress you. If the guy sending the note was hot, you wouldn’t care what they did or didn’t say. That’s the bottom line.

What’s truly bothering you is that you’re not hearing from the guys you want to hear from. That’s it. The rest is just your way or rationalizing why these men you perceive as schlubs are reaching out to you. The tone of the messages aren’t the issue, nor do these men appear to be lacking communication skills. These guys wrote messages that don’t appear to be cut and paste jobs. They mentioned something specific to you that demonstrated that they’re not just sending notes to anyone who looks at their profile.

Nobody is going to be bending over backwards to write you some Jane Austen-inspired salutation. Sorry, you’re just not that special or important. You, like pretty much everybody else who dates online, are nothing but a number. Welcome to our nightmare. Jump in, the water is warm. You’re getting the same messages that we all get.

I try to make it a point to reply to every email I get (within reason) and in doing so I’ve established some great friendships with people I don’t consider compatible with myself on a romantic level.

Ugh. You’re one of those people. The people who say that they answer all their messages “to be polite.” For future reference it’s actually more socially appropriate to just not respond. The only people who whine about not hearing back from the people they message are the ones who feel slighted and take the whole online dating process way too personally. In the future, don’t send a message back to people just to tell them you’re not interested. Nobody wants to hear it.

There’s just something egregiously disingenuous about someone who replies to all their messages. Like they somehow get a thrill out of rejecting people or maybe want someone to ask them why they don’t think they’re a match. There’s a bit of a rush that comes with turning people down. Maybe you’re not on OK Cupid to meet someone. Maybe you’re their to reject people.

I think you’re expectations are way too high for online dating. At this point, people are just exhausted and don’t feel like crafting unique message after unique message. People are less concerned with capitalization and punctuation. Take whatever opening you can get, even the messages that just say “Hi” and don’t analyze it. It’s just one message. Not everybody gives good email. Unless someone writes in gibberish, indicating a multitude of issues, give them a chance.

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How To Get The People You Want To Date To View Your Profile & Write To You

 

1. Don’t roll out the Welcome mat – Opening your About Me section with some sort of greeting is a waste. You’re taking up the 2 seconds that you need to grab someone’s attention. Plus it just makes you sound like you’re trying too hard. Just get right to it.

2. Don’t start off explaining how uncomfortable/hard it is to talk about yourself – You’re not fooling anybody. This isn’t an eight grade book report where you have to meet a word minimum. Don’t take short cuts like this. Plus, it makes you sound negative.

3. Think keywords – This is the part of your profile where you should include as many descriptors as possible. I’ve mentioned how people use certain keywords when doing searches in order to better hone in on people with whom they’d feel compatible. Forget using words like outgoing and adventurous. Include specific stories and examples of activities that you think will give people a better idea of who you are. Do a search, view  a bunch of profiles and, from the ones that appeal to you, choose words those people use in their profile to describe themselves. That way you’ll be drawing people like them to you.

4. Lists are good - A lot of people find writing about themselves to be a chore. Take a little shortcut by coming up with a bullet point list of things that describe you, your hobbies and your interests. Don’t just say you love animals or enjoy the beach. Give specific examples. For example:

  • I recently downloaded the Debbie Downer sound clip to my phone. When something goes awry, I play it and it gives me a chuckle.
  • Me time sometimes includes binge watching House of Cards and Sherlock while enjoying a nicer Cabernet/cup of tea.
  • ASPCA commercials get me every time. I don’t have enough room in my closet for all the tote bags I’ve been given for making a donation.

5.  If you’re using OK Cupid, answer questions that revolve around topics most important to you – Search some profiles, find ones that you like and look through their questions. You can choose to view questions by categories. If you’re big on the outdoors or politics or the arts, look for questions to answer that focus on that topic. That’s going to get you included in searches for people with similar opinions and lifestyle interests.

6. Be available – A lot of people prefer to grab someone’s attention while they’re logged in. Log on to the site and keep the window open while you’re doing other things. Who cares if you always appear online. Unless someone is monitoring your profile, nobody is going to know.

7. Post an eye catching primary photo – Your face should take up the majority of that little thumbnail that pops up when someone does a search. Try to choose a photo where you’re wearing a bright color. That way your thumbnail will stand out and jump off the page.

8. Post no more than 3-5 pictures – I actually think 3 good shots are enough. Face, body, social shot. Done. The more pictures you have, the more reason you’re giving someone not to contact you. Make sure your photos are clear and that the lightening is ideal. No shot from the side or far away or wearing sunglasses.

9. Keep your busy schedule to yourself – Don’t mention how many hours you work or how hard it might be to schedule a date.

10. Fill out the music, movie and book interest section – This appears to be the main place that people find that thing to mention in their email to prove they read the full profile. Make it easier for them by giving specific examples of favorite books or groups or films. Make it interesting by posting lyrics or quotes from some of your favorites and let people guess. In order to find the answer, they’ll write to you.

11. Tell people that you check your inbox regularly and answer messages when you think there’s a possible match. Since so many people clog up these sites just to get attention, it’s refreshing to know that someone is an active participant in the process.

12. Do not bark any commands as to who should and shouldn’t contact you -  Leave the past in the past. You don’t want people thinking you have your guard up to high or are burnt out.

 

 

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How to Avoid Looking Like a Creep On OKCupid (This Applies To Men AND Women)

I have been a huge advocate of the dating site OKCupid for some times now. I like the functionality, I like the questions and I like that it’s free (though I pay for it.) You’re not shooting off messages to a bunch of people who very well might not be paid members and therefore can’t respond. There’s very little deceptiveness behind the OKC business model, which is why I use them.

However, in the past few months I have found my patience with the members of that site growing thin. My frustration has ratcheted up a few notches since posting profiles in other nearby cities. That means that I’m dealing with three times the average online dating annoyances.

I want to do a quick run down of things that people do that, unbeknownst to them, make people feel uncomfortable or irritated.

1. Repeatedly viewing someone’s profile - If you don’t want to pay the membership fee for OKC, then create what the kids call a “stalker profile” so you can cruise anonymously. Making daily pit stops on someone’s profile – when you know that they can see you visited – makes you seem odd. Or weak. I so, so , SO wish OKC users had the ability to prevent someone from viewing their profile. Alas, they don’t. Consider how it would make you feel if you were walking to work and, every day, you saw the same person peeking around a corner at you. Weird, right? Yes, it’s weird. I’ll give someone a couple peeks. That’s normal. But to look at them every day or every other day for weeks straight? Creepy. Stop it. Also cease repeatedly viewing someone’s profile while you know they’re online. That’s just a way to get someone curious enough that they’ll message you. Either message them or don’t. Constantly looking at their profile while they’re online makes you look like a pest.

2. Admitting that you recognize someone from the offline world - Maybe you know them from a job or through friends or, you know, their blog. It’s never a good idea to open with, “Hey, I saw you on the subway last week. You got off at Union Square.” That is going to make people wonder if it’s just a random coincidence that you found them or if you’re stalking them. To speak more specifically, you will NEVER win points with me if you send me an email and say, “I love your blog.” Ever. Ever ever ever. The typical regular male reader of a dating blog usually falls in to one of two categories: the white knight or the PUA/Manosphere types. While there are a handful of guys that come here that I know genuinely come here for the discussion, a lot don’t. I will always err on the side of caution on that one.

3. Including your phone number or email address in your intro email – Sorry, but that reeks of desperation and social cluelessness.

4. Posting only photos of yourself taken by a cell phone or laptop – You’re a social recluse and have no friends.

5. Completely disregarding the user’s stated preferences - Trust me. If I wanted to date a 25 year old, I’d have set my desired age range to include 25 year olds. If I wanted to date women, I’d list myself as bisexual. If I wanted to date someone in Scarsdale, I wouldn’t have said in my “You should contact me it” section that I wanted to hear from people who live in the city or was looking for a city-minded guy. Pay attention to the clues, because they’re there. When people who fall not just outside someone’s stated preferences but well outside them contact you, they’re telling you one of two things. One, they didn’t read your profile. Two, they think they’re so god damn special and unique that you should make an exception for them. People have to remember that if they’re ignoring someone’s preferences, other people probably are too, causing that user to be barraged with a shit ton of useless, annoying messages. Change your username to SpamIAm, because that’s essentially what you are if you disregard someone’s preferred criteria.

6. Making inappropriate comments in an intro email - I once had a guy open his message to me by saying, “Good Morning, Horny SoandSo.” Mind you, there was no mention of sex in my profile, nor did I have the casual sex option checked off. He explained that he addressed me that way because of some of the questions I answered. So I cleared all of my questions out. Of course he had to email me again after doing that to tell me that that was probably a smart move. Again we have an instance of total and utter social cluelessness.While I put myself in the position to be approached that way by being so forth coming with my answers to those questions, that doesn’t mean it’s a good rule of thumb to be that brazen in your approach. Bottom line? It’s gross. If you’re smart and experienced, you know the best way to get what you want.

7. Jumping on to IM or emailing someone as soon as they log on - I know with OKC it used to be that, when someone logged on, a little dialog box would pop up alerting you to that. Give someone a few minutes before you try to contact them. Immediately trying to reach out  makes you look like you’ve been sitting online and waiting for them to appear. Le Creep.

8. Ignoring common signs that someone is trying to end a conversation - The main reason why I am hesitant to respond to folks who continuously view profile is that, once you respond to them, they won’t leave you alone. If someone’s conversation gets shorter and shorter, or they talk about how busy they are, or they actually sign off an email with “Have a good one!” they’re trying to leave the conversation. If they don’t return your questions with questions, they’re usually replying to be polite.

9. Picking fightsI was reading this article last week and was blown away by the blatant hostility of the men writing them. Obviously, some of these messages were part of larger conversations. There’s no doubt in my mind that some of these guys were somewhat provoked into being assholes. However, some of these messages are written with the intention of offending the woman so that she will respond. You know how, in grammar school, boys would tease the girls they like. This is the adult version of that. However, if you’re going to insist upon including hot button topics in your profile, learn to expect some people to try and debate you. If you can’t have a rational or mature dialogue about the subject, don’t include it in your profile. If you’re just going to trade insults, you’re no better than the person who picked the fight.

OKC used to offer members the ability to filter messages. That way they wouldn’t have to constantly respond to that little ding notification on their phone and learn that yet another person who in no way meets their explicitly stated preferences has emailed them. OKC got rid of that feature once Match.com bought them. The logic, I assume, is to drive people so batty with messages from people they don’t want to hear from that they’ll head on over to Match. I’m not going to slag on OKC for that decision, because that’s business and everybody needs to make a living. However, I want to plead to people who shoot off messages to people without reading profiles and to folks who think they’re some kind of unique case to stop and consider how soul-sucking it can be for someone to have to slog through messages from people that aren’t what they are looking for. Please. Just stop and think before you send that message.

Stop screwing with other people’s experience online. Just stop.

Post Script: I’m going to suggest something kinda daring. I wouldn’t even bother reading your OKC emails anymore. I am starting to think that the people who view your profile and don’t write are the only people you should consider contacting outside of the occasional unsolicited cold call message. I actually believe some people now consider viewing a profile the same as sending a message. It’s like relying on Caller ID to let someone know you called without leaving a message.

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Online Dating: How Much Rejection Is Normal?

Name: Maria
Age: 35
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Comment: Hi, I am wondering if what happens to me is “normal” in the dating world here in NYC.  I am 35, on OKC and I get asked out a lot.  I meet an average of 3 guys per week, which some would consider lucky.  I think I would feel lucky if all I wanted was to go to countless dates with men that 98% of the time I never hear back from.  Is this normal? Do other women experience what I take as rejection??

 

3 dates a week doesn’t sound abnormal for OK Cupid. It’s a free website. As many people have mentioned in previous threads, OKC attracts a number of time wasters. That site is heavily populated by folks not terribly interested in anything beyond attention or a casual relationship. Hence why you’re getting so much action. I’m going to guess that you’re a quantity over quality person. You go out with pretty much everyone who asks because you like feeling so in demand. OK Cupid is like a fun house mirror in that it provides a distorted view of our desirability and attractiveness. Hate to be the bearing of bad news, but let’s just say that that site isn’t known for attracting men who are terribly picky.

I highly doubt that the majority of men you’re meeting on OK Cupid are actually looking for a relationship.  Getting dates with OKC is beyond easy. Getting quality dates is much, much harder. Many of those guys are taking you out in the hopes of hooking up. When that doesn’t happen they just move on. That would explain a good portion of the rejection that you are experiencing.

The other contributing factor is probably that you’re disappointing these men somehow. Either your profile is too good and full of embellishments or..dun dun DUN! you don’t look like your photos.

While it’s not abnormal to have many one off first dates that lead no where, it is atypical to have that many not lead to a second date. So something is off. Whomever you present online is not translating offline. You should be getting more men following up if you’re having 3 dates a week. So, in addition to meeting a lot of one and doners,  it’s either an issue of inaccurate photos or you’re just not terrible interesting/engaging. That’s something that a lot of people don’t consider. Everybody thinks they “rock” first dates. Few people actually do. Every person I’ve ever known or heard of who was booking multiple online dates every week always, to me, seemed to have something “off” about them. Either they seemed burnt out on the process or over-anxious or completely desensitized to the process. I think 2 dates a week with two different people is pushing it. More than that and you’re just overloading your mental hard drive. People assume because they get so many dates or have so many people eager to commit to them that that actually means what they think it means. A lot of times it doesn’t. You’d be surprised what people will do and say just to get sex on the regs. Or at all.

I don’t know how to say this without some people feeling as though I am trying to crush their spirit. Dating in Manhattan or in any city where there is an overage of single women to single men is tough. Trying to date in Manhattan as a woman in her mid to late thirties and older is brutal. As harsh as this sounds, the odds are just against us. My suggestion to you, OP, as well as to all the other women in your age range and above is to branch out. Way out. Like Boston or Connecticut or Philadelphia. Or maybe even further. We are just not in demand here. I’m not saying that you should completely count out the men where you live. I’m suggesting that you widen the net.

I will also advise any woman over 35 that is looking for a relationship to rely more heavily on the paid dating sites. Use OK Cupid, as it’s a great way to get dates and get out. Who knows, you might strike gold. But if you really want something serious, OK Cupid is just not the place to go. You are up against it on that site, competing with a lot of women in the same boat.

As for the guys who struggle, all the whining and sad sackery has to stop. Get off the angry man forums. Many of you sound like the 98 pound weakling who just had sand kicked in his face at beach. If you want a certain type of woman, you need to up your game. That means dressing and sounding the part. You can say all you like how unfair it is that women don’t like nice stable guys but deep down you know that’s not true. They just don’t want you. It’s time for you to stop listening to all the other losers at love and break free from that pack. Maybe it would serve you well to look elsewhere, too. Either that or suck it up and accept that your $10 first date policy isn’t cutting it. Time to break open the wallet and pull yourself together. Congrats, you stay in shape or you’re pretty or you have a job. Whoopee. You’re hardly unique. If you want people to notice you or take you seriously you have to present yourself in a certain way.

If you’re surrounded by people who bring more to the table, and at any given time you probably are, then you need to either up your game in some way and/or go where people want what you can offer. If you aren’t willing to do either, then you need to accept the reality of your situation quickly and learn to adapt.

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How Do You Define Long Term Dating, Short Term Dating & Casual Sex

So…how do you define each of the three main relationship options on OKCupid?

Here are my definitions.

Short Term Dating: Open ended dating and consistent sex without exclusivity.

Casual Sex: Let’s meet up and do it.

Long Term Dating: Serious relationship leading to commitment i.e. exclusivity or marriage.

 

Next question:

If someone selects casual sex as an option as well as short/long term dating, does that prevent you from emailing them?

Finally:

If someone only selects long-term dating, does that prevent you from contacting them?

 

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Would You Use Someone For A Free Meal/Sex?

XOJane published yet another article that showcases the distorted rationalizations that many people lean on when acting like assholes. Read it, then let’s discuss both the article and the following quote:

All women engage in this.  And, every guy you know is doing the same thing – dangling the possibility of commitment to women in order to get sex.  People are selfish.  Sure, it’s socially inappropriate to admit to doing it (and dumb if you’re announcing to thousands of readers non-anonymously on the Internet) but doesn’t mean everyone is not doing it. Men are far more guilty of this than women, I think.  They will have sex with a woman with no intention of it leading to anything knowing the woman wants more.  Women dangle the possibility of sex to get other things.  I don’t think it’s always about free meals.  In my experience that is rare.  But it’s about getting something.  So everyone is guilty. – DMN

 

I let you guys discuss the finer points of DMN’s feedback. I agree that both parties are using the promise of something they know the other covets to get what they want. So there really isn’t much difference in what this woman did versus what many men do in an attempt to get laid.

Of course the minute this story went live it became Reddit/MRA fodder. She’s a dinner whore, she’s a prostitute, blah blah blah. The men complaining reveal nothing other than they were suckers once, too. The author of the essay is rationalizing her decision to use men for free meals by deflecting and pointing the finger at men. That’s to be expected. As I said in one of my comments in that article’s thread, I’m tired of men and women trying to avoid responsibility by  re-directing attention to similar behavior of the opposite sex. Stop doing that. 99% of the time, both genders are wrong so you’re not really helping your argument. It becomes a circular conversation where one side attempts to bait the other into responding. Nothing gets accomplished and the cycle of resentment is perpetuated.

Not only did she demonstrate poor judgment for using men for free meals, but she proved she still makes questionable choices by writing about it non-anonymously on the internet.  The only real difference between her and the men she is comparing herself to is that the majority of those guys would never publicly admit to behaving so heinously. Why? Because a) it would interfere with their game and b) they know it’s wrong. That doesn’t stop them from doing this, of course. They keep it to themselves so that they – along with their male peers – can continue the ruse should they choose to use it. They are not only looking out for themselves but for their bros. I think the opposite is true for women who share these revelations in a public forum. They’ll say they’re doing it warn other females or balance out various injustices, but are they? Are they really?

EDITED TO ADD: I honestly think women publicly share stories that make them sound as though they are far more successful/no-nonsense/sexually desirable than other women. For example: the woman who wrote the XO Jane piece implies she got steak and lobster dinners from men she met off OK Cupid and Craigslist. Really? REALLY?? Because all the guys who can afford to blow a couple hundred on a first date dinner all cruise….Craigslist? Please. That was written strictly to generate jealousy from the female readership and imply that men found her so attractive that they freely and gladly opened up their wallets for her.

While many females like to speculate that men behave poorly,  the evidence that women actually do appears to be piling up on the internet. Not only do articles like this make the subject look bad, they make all women look bad. It seems like every day there’s another piece of evidence  cropping up that incriminates us in the form of personal memoir writing. The question is: why? Aren’t we better than this?

Nobody in this digital age, where Googling first dates is expected, could possibly think publishing this story was a good idea. The XO Jane piece was framed as though it was an act of contrition, but it wasn’t.  I think it was shared because the author was proud of what she did. Only someone pleased with themselves would write a story like this under their own name and post photos. The decision to go public with this is what will haunt her. Having to defend and explain why she wrote this will be her penance.

 


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How Come Nobody Responds To His OKCupid Messages?

Name: Joe
Comment: I message more than a few women on a popular free dating site, the only problem being that they never message me back, nor do they look at my profile. Now, the first thing you’re going to say is that I have some red flags; my messages, while succinct, show that I’ve read their profile and have at least one common interest. For example, if a profile says that they like Italian food, I’ll ask about what their favorite Italian restaurant in the city is, or what their favorite dish is, or if they like a band, if they liked the last album, or if they attended the last concert, etc.
Also, as you can see, my grammar is decent. As for my pictures, they match my body type on the site, I’ve had them looked at by very honest female friends and strangers (not explaining how I came about this, too long and pointless), and there are no real red flags that I can see. I’m at the point where if I don’t get a response, I’ll ask why – just to feed my own curiosity. I’d really like to know what I’m doing wrong here.
Age: 27
City: Philadelphia
State: PA

 

No, the first thing I’m going to say to you is welcome to internet dating.

What’s probably happening is that they are looking at the tiny thumbnail that appears alongside your message and deciding that they don’t find you attractive. If the most positive thing you can say about your photos is that they match your chosen body type on your profile, that’s not a good sign. The thumbnail for your primary photo should showcase your face, head on,  clearly. It should not be taken from a distance or be some cropped/distorted shot. Wear something brightly colored so you can stand out amongst other thumbnails when people are doing searches. Oh, and be sure to rotate it so it’s right side up if you have to. Talk about lazy and not caring.

There isn’t a friend in the world honest enough to tell someone that they’re not terribly attractive or that they’re shooting way out of their league. If you tailored your questions to friends to focus on the consistency between your photos and what you say on your profile, then that would explain the responses from your friends that you received. You’ve listed all the possible problems that could explain this phenomenon except for the one that is the most likely. You’re probably, like the rest of us, average looking. I’m also going to guess that you come across like you’re trying too hard in your messages. Why do I say that? Even in this letter you seem rather desperate to convince me that the problem isn’t you. Approaching strangers and asking them to review your photos as well as following up with these women inquiring as to why they didn’t respond makes you sound horribly insecure. If you lack this kind of confidence in real life, then I can assure you that your friends are not going to give you the straight truth. Don’t email people and ask them why they didn’t respond to you. It’s a bit rude and puts the woman in an awkward position. By doing this you’re demonstrating that you you’re getting repeatedly ignored. Red Flag.

If these women aren’t even bothering to visit your profile, then either they don’t find your primary photo attractive or your messages come off like you’re trying too hard. There’s also the possibility that they have their browsing options set so that people don’t see when they view a profile. So you don’t really know that they’re not  looking over your ad. All you know is that they are not responding.

Personally, I find the questions about something in my profile a little…meh. Just tell me you liked my profile. Don’t try to engage me by asking a question about something you truly don’t care about. It’s disingenuous.

Online daters need to stop focusing on the lack of attention they get and pay more attention to the people who are showing attention. I have a client who originally had her profile set to include casual sex as a relationship option. She was bothered by all the messages she got from men that seemed to lead to sexual conversations. I told her to uncheck that box. She did that, but then was concerned that the majority of attention she received before had disappeared. Was she only getting those profile views because she had checked casual sex, she asked?

Um. Yes. Yes she was.Personally, I don’t see a problem with selecting casual sex as a relationship option, should you be open to casual relationships. You’ll need to be vigilante with how you filter profiles and have an accurate perception of your audience, of course. Yes, you’ll get a ton of messages that border on graphic harassment. You’ll have to learn to ignore them and not react. The goal is to get more views to your profile. Will you attract some people just looking for sex or who will judge you for it? Yep. But they’d likely dismiss you eventually anyway.

Without that option included, my client was now on a level playing field with everybody else, where modest amounts of page views and responses are the norm. I don’t know how many more times I can say this: this is online dating for pretty much everybody.

I’m going to stab my eyes out with hot forks if I hear one grumble from some dude who insists this guy’s experience is due to the fact that women just want attention and aren’t serious about meeting anybody. Sure, some women and men on those sites just want to collect winks and messages and show them off to their friends and yap about them on Twitter to make themselves feel better for rarely getting laid, being marginally attractive or socially awkward or overweight. If the person demonstrated a genuine interest in crafting a profile and didn’t skip steps and made a true effort, then they’re probably genuinely interested in meeting someone. Just not you. So be it. That’s how online dating works. Single people dating online must accept this. Not everyone is going to find you attractive, and most people think they have more options than they do. You either need to do everything possible to increase your options – and that means become as subjectively attractive as possible in person and in writing – or you need to accept your particular lot and act accordingly.

 

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Online Dating & Income – How Much Do You Reveal?

I woke up to an email from a friend on Facebook.

“I just got an email from a  woman on Match who asked if the lack of a stated income on my profile meant I was unemployed. Should I include my income?”

Let’s think about this from a search perspective. When someone is choosing criteria that they prefer in a mate, are many people selecting a specific income?I would guess that there’s a decent amount of people who do. Hence, it might be a good idea to include a salary just because you want to come up in as many search types as possible so that you can drive traffic to your ad. The downside, of course, is attracting people who only wish to date people who fall within a certain income bracket. My guess is that if you work in a field that is known for it’s high salary then you’re used to being targeted by such people and can sniff them out pretty quickly. I’d suggest planning a low key date at a modestly priced bar. If your date tries to upgrade then you know that they’re more drawn to you for your wallet than your personality.

As I’ve said before, people who make high salaries aren’t opposed to spending money. They know that that’s all part of the Dating Game. They don’t mind sharing the wealth as long as their date appears to appreciate it. They don’t have to have someone match their spending habits on dates to do that. A simple offer to pay for the cab or buy a round of drinks will suffice. It’s not about the amount, it’s about the gesture of appreciation.

Now, what if you want to select “Prefer not to say?” Personally, I think that’s the best way to go. I don’t like the idea of people feeling obligated to reveal sensitive information like salary range to strangers. This would never come up in regular conversation if you met someone at a bar or party.Either choose that option or undercut your salary a bit. I always suggest to clients that they don’t go into great detail about what they do for a living. Don’t give it all away upfront. If you work in the corporate world select Executive/Management as a career field whenever you can.

In my example profile that I use when doing profile reviews, I identify as financially self-sufficient as opposed to financially independent. I place more importance on whether or not someone can take care and support themselves than how much they make. I also prefer to date someone who lives a similar lifestyle to mine, meaning they live on their own and, while maybe don’t make enough to travel to Europe on a regular basis, can still afford to go out and enjoy certain activities and is responsible enough to maintain a savings.

The phrase “financially independent” says, to me, “I don’t need you. I got this.” That’s not a message you want to send to potential partners. You want people to think you need them to some degree. “Financially self-sufficient” says, to me, “I’m responsible.” That’s what sufficiency is about – being able to take care of yourself. I often advise women not to make mention of finances or careers in their profiles. For one, they make themselves targets to the OKCupid/Match.com Hobos looking for a place to rest their weary heads. Yes, that’s a thing. The other reason is that men just don’t care what a woman makes or what she does for a living as much as women care about the same things. Men want women to use their more “feminine” qualities to attract men. Most men focus on personality traits and characteristics than on financial or professional ones.

On a somewhat related topic, can we all talk key words for a second? A great way to draw the right people to your profile is to include specific key words. If you’re super health conscious, then make sure to use words like healthy, diet and exercise. Go even more specific and use words like organic and yoga. If you like being outdoors, include words like nature, hikes, environment, sunset, mountains, etc. Looking for a nerd? Think of the various descriptors and hobbies you think someone like that might identify with and put them in your profile. I’ve found the, more and more, people are honing their searches by using the key word search option.

So now I’ll turn it over to you:

Do you complete the income question on your profile? Why or why not? Have you encountered people who have seemed judgmental based on your admitted salary? Have you been targeted by people who appear to primarily seek people in your income bracket? If so, how did you know and how did you handle it?

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Is He Just Sleeping With You While He Looks For a Girlfriend?

Name: Nicole
Age: 32
State: Vu
Question: Dear Moxie — I have a question about online dating and exclusivity that’s sort of tangentially related to your most recent piece on whether or not first-date sex is always the kiss of death. My specific question may be a topic you’ve covered in a previous blog, but I can’t find anything similar in the archives so I thought I would ask it again.

I’ve been on OKC in my area for a little more than 2 months. I’ve gone on a fair number of dates (I think I’ve met 12-13 people in that time), but I’ve only felt strongly about 2 (in one case, I was into the guy but it wasn’t reciprocal, and in the other case the guy is not only geographically undesirable but geographically impossible. He lives in CA and I live in VA).

Anyway, I finally found someone that I like, and we’ve been out on 4 dates in the span of 8 days. The dates have gotten progressively better/more comfortable and yes – things have gotten physical. Everything in this guy’s profile — and everything that he’s said while we’ve been out — indicate that he’s looking for a girlfriend, and not just looking to screw around. (And yes, I know that he could still be full of sh** about this, but the sense I’m getting is that he wants a girlfriend.)

So here’s the deal: I know that this is OKC, and that with this site (and with any other online dating site) you have to assume that the person you’re seeing is seeing multiple other people at once. I’m positive in this case that this guy is (or at least should/could be) seeing other people; he’s 33 and extremely attractive and educated and successful (He’s an OKC unicorn, really). I can’t fault him for this and I know it’s way to early to ask for (or even discuss) seeing each other exclusively.

That said, I don’t want to be the girl he is f***ing while he looks for a “real” girlfriend, if that makes any sense. In other words, I am happy (OK, not *happy,* but at peace with) being one of multiple people he’s seeing before deciding on which one to consider his “girlfriend.” But, because I slept with him relatively soon (on date 3), I’m concerned that he’s not considering me “girlfriend material” and that I’m just in his “rotation” for possible sex when he’s bored or otherwise available.

Is there any way to delicately broach this in conversation (ie, ask him if he sees any LTR potential with us or not) or do I just let it go and ride it out until he either a) dumps me, or b) we end up dating exclusively? Like I said, I know I have to accept he’s going to be seeing other people, especially since we’ve known each other a week. But if he doesn’t consider us to have any LTR potential, I’d rather cut my losses now and take myself out of the running before I become too emotionally attached.

Thoughts? Are there signs I should look for that will tell me that I’m just someone to sleep with and not a potential GF? Or can I come out and ask?

You’ve only had 4 dates.  I think you’re going to have to suck it up for awhile. If things are moving as quickly as you say, then it sounds like he’ll tell you if he wants to be serious or exclusive. A number of successive dates doesn’t always mean that you and the guy are on the same page. Take this scenario for example:

I had about 5 dates with a guy. About 2 a week. I liked him, I enjoyed him, I was attracted to him, the sex was good. But I wasn’t feeling that “thing” we all like to feel for people we’re dating. Not yet, at least.  But I liked him enough to just keep my mouth shut and go along until things either progressed or  came to their natural conclusion. One night, while texting, he invited me over to watch a particular TV show that I like. I was exhausted. I turned him down. Two nights later I get a call and he wants to talk about where we were headed. He said that he was looking for something mid to long term and he didn’t feel that’s where we were headed. I said okay. Just..okay. He then went on to say that we had plans the next night and wondered if I still wanted to go out or did I feel it was a waste of time. I said I thought it was a waste of time. Just that. “I think that would be a waste of time.” He then went on to tell me how much he’s enjoyed being with me and getting to know me. I told him I appreciated that. Then we hung up. The next day I realized that he was feeling me out to see how I felt. I knew when I turned down his offer to go over to his place to watch TV, I was probably sending a certain message. I wasn’t ready to shut the door just yet. I just needed time to figure things out. Since I wasn’t in a rush I figured I had time.

You said it yourself: you’ve met the OKCupid Unicorn. Instead of trouble shooting this after 4 dates, why not just enjoy it? At any given time, you might be the girl that a guy is “just sleeping with” as he continues his search for Ms. Right. There’s no escaping that. Even if you ask him where you stand, he could still tell you what you want to hear only to dump you a couple weeks or months later. It’s just too soon for both of you to tell where things are headed. Bring it up now, and you’ll possibly do damage to what you’ve established. Let go of this need to “know.” Stop fearing that you might get dumped or that you’re just a step along his journey to twu wuv. That’s dating. It won’t kill you. The more you do it, the more you build up a tolerance.

Men and women can go along to get along for a very long time. There’s no way to know for sure what they’re thinking. Even asking them doesn’t guarantee that how they say they feel in that moment will be how they feel in 2 months. There is no way to make these things fool-proof. If he does move on, it doesn’t mean you were a speed bump. He could have been giving you a trial run. It didn’t work. He took a pass.

If you insist upon saying something, and I highly advise that you don’t, then you just need to be honest. Just ask him if he’s dating anyone else. Then you’ll have your answer.

 

Stop fearing that you might get dumped or that you’re just a step along his journey. That’s dating. It won’t kill you. – Click to Tweet this.

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