Is Male Approval *Really* That Important?

I’m fascinated by the fact that all the younger guys (35 and under) from OKCupid that email me and say the exact same thing. They make some effusive comment about my looks. What that really tells me is how younger men (or maybe men in general) perceive women “of a certain age” as feeling less than or unattractive in some way simply because we are no longer in our twenties or thirties. That we’re somehow *starved* for attention or validation. That a simple yet disingenuous compliment about our looks will make us more pliable. It’s insulting.

Equally insulting is the idea that men have the ability to “break our spirit” by offering some desperate attempt at an insult o our looks. Last week one of those Game/PUA guys tweeted at me that it looked like I was balding. (Note: That is not a cryptic plea for people to tell me “omigod that’s sooo stuupid you’re not balding.” I know that.) He deleted the tweet pretty quickly. What was I supposed to do or say in response to that? Was I supposed to get all fucked up about it and fear other men thought the same thing? No, really, I’m genuinely curious.

When women around here brag about “always” getting hit on by younger men, I just roll my eyes. I’d guess that, in 90% of those cases, those men are blowing smoke up that woman’s skirt not because he genuinely finds her attractive but because he believes it’s been a very, very long time since anybody has complimented her on her looks.

I could turn up the bravado and be all, ‘Oh no he di’in’t! I get told I’m beautiful allll of the time.” That, I’m sure, would get me all kinds of likes and retweets and “you go girls.”

The truth is, once we hit a certain age, the compliments do slow down. We don’t get the same amount of looks when we walk into a room as we used to. Strictly by being younger women are deemed more attractive.

And yet…I accept this. It’s supposed to bother me, though, right? I’m supposed to cry ageism and talk about how shallow men are and how “hot” I am and all the dates and sex I have. That’s what women are supposed to do, right? I can’t be bothered to get worked up by it. If anything, I’m more annoyed at the idea that women are supposed to crave the acceptance and attention from men. Especially women my age. I like male attention as much as the next girl…but liking it and needing it are two different things.

The whole purpose for most dating blogs isn’t to offer the author a creative outlet. That’s what they say, of course. The real reason most of those blogs exist is so the women (and sadster guys) can talk about all their dates and feel/give the impression that they are far more desirable than they actually are. They’ll even reveal some of the most jaw-droppingly embarrasing things. The question is: why? What is it about being able to say that you have a man in your life that is so important that women will forego all common sense and dignity just to have a guy to talk about? What is it about having a man that makes us more “okay?”

I was having a conversation about this with a couple of male friends this week. I was telling them about a few articles I had read where the authors had to work in mentions of their new “boyfriends.” They’re excited. I get that. I understand that the real motivator in those situations is to brag and, let’s be honest ladies, compete with other women. What I don’t understand is why these women feel as though having a man in their life somehow elevates them in some way. What is the real value of the man’s presence? Even in the comments here, I see women trip over themselves to talk about their relationships.

Why do we do that? What is it about having a man in our life that makes us feel smarter, wiser, more beautiful or more confident? Why do we feel a need to prove something to strangers?

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Why Do Women Fall For The Mr. Darcy Types?

Name: Joan
Age: 20
State: NY
Question: I’ve been friends with this guy for a while, on a casual level. He’s 30 and I’m 20. I never thought about him romantically or sexually until recently, when he told me that he feels very drawn to me, and that he respects me as a person and feels really attracted to me. Then he went on to say that usually he’d try to have sex with someone he felt so attracted to, but that because we were friends he respected me too much to go there. I was taken aback, because this confession seemed to come out of nowhere, so I had very little response except to say that it’s better to keep things simple between us. Then a few weeks after this I was hanging out with him late at his place again, and he said it again, this time adding that he has nothing to offer me and would never want me to have to deal with his shit. There are a lot of reasons that pursuing something with him would be a challenge, age aside. But that being said, something about his admitting he’s attracted to me and his refusal to make a move out of respect has now made me think about him in a way I hadn’t really before. Am I crazy for falling for this Mr. Darcy stuff? Is there any way to pursue this without it feeling awkward?

Am I crazy for falling for this Mr. Darcy stuff?

I absolutely love that you used this phrase, as it is EXACTLY what I think of when I hear such twee comments from men. No you’re not crazy for falling for it. You’re just young. You’re young and you’re enthralled at the thought of this older and more “sophisticated” guy taking an interest in you.

when he told me that he feels very drawn to me, and that he respects me as a person and feels really attracted to me.

Oh dear. Do tell, Mr. Darcy. Drawn to you? He feels drawn to you? Well, here’s a question…why would a 30 year old man be drawn to a 20 year old? Honestly, does that make sense to you? Is this me being judgey or is that creepy in some way? Or at least out of place? Let’s say he is drawn to you. That alone strikes me as a warning sign. I believe that he’s drawn to your youth. Not uncommon, of course. But I believe, in cases like this, the attraction goes deeper than being about how nubile and pure you are. I tend to think there’s much more to it than that. Maybe he’s drawn to your level of emotional maturity because he’s immature? Or drawn to your inexperience because it doesn’t threaten his ego? I don’t know. What I do know is that if he’s reasonably attractive, he should be able to date women closer to his own age. He either can’t or chooses not to. Red Flag. [Except for you, of course. You're totally different. Not at all immature or insecure.] There will be people with stories of how they dated someone so much older and how profound and powerful that connection was. Breaking….it wasn’t. You just thought it was because you were a child and didn’t know better.

Then he went on to say that usually he’d try to have sex with someone he felt so attracted to, but that because we were friends he respected me too much to go there.

And that, my love, would be a lie. That would be something Mr. Darcy would say. It’s romantic and makes women feel..say it with me….special. Guys don’t talk like characters from romance novels. When they do, it’s strategic. They know that that is how many women think of men and that many females want their love lives to resemble a rom com. And, sadly, many of us do. If a guy wants to have sex with you,and you make yourself available to him,  he’ll try to have sex with you. The whole thing about not wanting to ruin the friendship is a lie, too.  This reminds me of a blog I read over the weekend. She posted a link to her site  on Nerve Confessions asking people for feedback. The guy acted all offended when he invited her to sleep over after their first date and she immediately said she would but there wouldn’t be any sex! [Just everything but. Holy Jesus Christ on a Palomino Pony. Just f*ck him already.] Here’s a classic example of the Grand Gesture Guy. Kissing in the rain. Carrying her up to bed in his arms. Romantic declarations. Fakity fake fake fake. Guys don’t talk like that!

Ladies, it’s an act. They’re pretending to be offended. They’re pretending to be concerned that we think they ‘just want sex.”  It’s all part of the dance. We do the “Oh, gee, I don’t know if that’s a good idea” thing while we’ve already run through the fantasy about getting nailed up against a wall by the end of the first cocktail. [PS? That only successfully happens in movies, too. Go ahead. Try to recreate that magic. See how it goes for you.] Either except his invite to go back to his place, lose the coy act and screw him with abandon or don’t. That’s it. None of this in-between crap anymore. You’re making it difficult for all of us.

But that being said, something about his admitting he’s attracted to me and his refusal to make a move out of respect has now made me think about him in a way I hadn’t really before.

Yep. That’s exactly what he wants you to think.  He wants you to see him differently, maybe even put him on a pedestal. He’s trying to make it a challenge. He wants you to chase him. It’s all an ego stroke for him.

The guy is full of it. He probably believes what he’s saying, though. That’s why it’s so hard for you to decide what to do.  If you want him, have him. Just understand that you’re probably not getting the romantic hero he’s presenting himself as. He’s a 30 year old dude trying to bang a 20 year old at best, or a 30 year old dude who’s wildly immature and insecure trying to date a 20 year old because women on his own level intimidate the crap out of him.

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Nothing Says Romance Like Sangria & Plan B

Hi Moxie:

I wanted to tell you a story, not because I have a question but to see
what you think.  I met a girl on howaboutwe, she is 25,  Persian (grew up
in Iran) and didn’t know European food well. I wrote to her about a
Spanish place in my neighborhood and we ended up meeting. A few
glasses of sangria later, we ended up back at my place. I know it was
stupid, but I didn’t ‘helmet my warrior’ that night. So the date ends
with a swing by CVS for some Plan B (on me).

Sidenote: I’m reasonably certain she didn’t just toss the Plan B, she
later commented that inside the (rather large) box the pill was super
tiny.

We like each other & continue dating, a couple of weeks go by when she
tells me she is late. The next time I see her she is still late, at
which point I tell her there is no point in keeping this a mystery.
The following Sunday I pick up some EPT’s and she tests positive (five
times – if that is significant).  She asks me what I want, and (of
course) I tell her we aren’t ready.

We both start researching early termination options – she said she
didn’t want to do the pills, too many online horror stories of severe
cramping only to discover they didn’t work anyway. I started calling
aspiration facilities, but nothing was what we were looking for – too
expensive, too far away, no ‘companion’ option, etc. I said we should
go to Planned Parenthood to following Saturday – for some reason I had
it in my head that PP offered abortion counseling but didn’t perform
abortions.

When we got there, they gave her another test while I waited. She met
with a counselor and requested that I be there. The counselor came and
got me, told both of us the test was positive, at which point (to my
surprise) my girl turned to me and said ‘so what do you want to do?’ I
again said we aren’t ready, and we talked to the counselor about a
variety of topics. It turns out PP performs abortions, at a place
close to my home and at a reasonable price. At one point the counselor
said aspiration is only used for 6 to 13 week pregnancies. I said our
first date was only 4 weeks prior, the counselor gave me a look and
said ‘our tests only work for pregnancies past 5 weeks’.

I looked it up later – there are two ways of counting weeks, 1) from
the date of the last period or 2) from the (estimated) date of the
fertilization. That 2 week bridge could make all the difference. One
last thing to note – she showed me her belly the next day, and it was
the size of a golfball. She is a really tiny girl (maybe 5’3 and about
90lbs), but still I was surprised.

We left PP Sat with no appointment because she ‘wanted to think’.
Today she went back and got some financial counseling, and made an
appointment for this coming Saturday.

Anyway, curious about your thoughts, especially as it relates to me
and what the ‘right thing’ would be for me to do this week. – Jay, 40

 

Okay. Where do we begin?

I’m reasonably certain she didn’t just toss the Plan B, she
later commented that inside the (rather large) box the pill was super
tiny.

The only thing you know for sure is that the Plan B was purchased. You have no idea if the pill was actually taken. Anybody can open a box and look inside. Next time, and I’m really hoping this situation taught you a lesson and there won’t be a next time, you stand over her and you watch her take that pill. I know that sounds harsh, but if a man is intent on not having children, he needs to have a far more active and accountable role in the whole process.

This, ladies and gentleman, is why men shouldn’t casually date this much younger than them. The level of immaturity expressed by both parties is STAGGERING.

First of all, let’s just be honest here. You were never going to date this girl seriously. In which case, you made a crucial misstep by “being there” for her. Now you’ve indulged her immature ideas of how relationships roll out. She’s a 25 year old woman who chose to have sex with a guy on a first date without a condom. Therefore, she can be a big girl and take that test on her own instead of tickling your ass with a feather about how she’s omigod late.  Dram drama drama, be there for me, etc. Bottom line: if she screwed you on a first date without a condom, she’s done it before. That is not a judgment call. That is a case of identifying a possible pattern. That’s it.

If this is new behavior for her, I can just about guarantee you she assumed that because you went without a condom with her, she was “special.” From that moment on, she had it in her head that she meant something to you. And every step of the way, you have enabled that thinking. That is going to make this whole situation much more difficult.

Do I feel you have an obligation to this woman? Yes. Absolutely. The unfortunate part of this is that you don’t know for sure that this baby is yours. Again, not a judgment call. Just pointing out a possible pattern. This is why I tell all my male friends to never, ever, ever go without birth control when they sleep with women this young. At that age, women are still figuring out their cycle. If this girl was willing to have unprotected sex when she did, and a pregnancy resulted, then she likely hasn’t a clue about her cycle and when she ovulates. That’s something many women figure out over time. We learn how to identify the changes in our bodies and know when we’re most fertile. This girl is immature. Plain and simple.

Regardless of whether or not you’re The Daddy, you’re stuck. There is no point in addressing the major inconsistencies here, as she’s not going to tell you the truth. She has it set in her mind that you’re the daddy and nothing will change that. Should she not decide to go through with the abortion, you demand a DNA test before you commit to ANYTHING.

You should pay for half of the procedure, check up on her afterwards, but you should not sit there in that waiting room with her. Tell her to get a friend to go with her. Sorry, but this is one of those brutal life lessons this girl needs to learn before she finds herself back in that clinic. You are not her boyfriend. You will not have a life together. You can not force intimacy through an unplanned pregnancy. The more you do for her and the more you indulge her, the harder it’s going to be when you dump her. Which is exactly what you should do once all the dust settles. This girl is a A CHILD. She has immature views on dating and relationships and refuses to be accountable for her choices. Between the unnecessary drama, to the inability to take more responsibility, to her stunted approach to relationships…this girl is a kid. You’re an adult. And you should have known better. Your days of going without a condom after a  drunken night out with some random girl should be long behind you.

We left PP Sat with no appointment because she ‘wanted to think’.
Today she went back and got some financial counseling, and made an
appointment for this coming Saturday.

I’m not sure that she “wanted to think.” My guess is she was hoping to either change your mind or try and force a little more intimacy before this whole thing goes to pot.  You need to make it very, very clear to her that you will do the stand up thing and support your child if that is her decision, but that there will not be any form of a romantic relationship between the two of you. My guess is, once she understands that, she’ll see where things are headed and hopefully go quietly into that good night. This relationship needs to end, pronto. If it doesn’t, she will probably hold that abortion over your head. You two do not have a future. So suck it up, get through this week, do the right thing, be supportive without enabling her delusions, and then be on your way.

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Why Can’t Some People Ever Stay Single?

We met under shady circumstances while we were both in other relationships, but immediately felt a mutual attraction, which we acted on. Now we’re both single and we’re falling in love, but I keep wondering if I’m being fair to her. She’s 20 and I’m 32. – Nerve Confession

 

There are three glaring issues for me:

 

1. The age difference. Sorry. Dating a 20 year old? Come on.

2. He appears to have cheated on his last GF with the current GF, and she knows it. Ahhh…to be 20 and not be concerned about stuff like that.

3. He’s going from one relationship to another without, it seems, much time alone between.

Do people like this really know how to love someone in a healthy way? Or do they have their own limited and usually self-serving way of loving someone?

Thoughts?

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER – This site is about and for expressing my opinions.  Any likeness or similarity that they may have to persons living or dead is coincidence. I am not responsible for internal personalizations or general butthurtedness.If you’d like to file an I’m Butt Hurt!! complaint, please do so here.

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Minding The (Age) Gap

Name: xyzed
State: NY
Website:
Question: Is there an appropriate age gap when dating someone younger?

I met a wonderful woman during a speed dating event and we have been dating exclusively during the past month. During our first conversation she asked what my age was and I was contrite and replied 48 Yr. She is 35 yr old. I asked if she felt the age is too great then we can remind friends and not pursue a relationship. I also made it pretty clear that I was not open to having kids. I already have a teenager. She was pretty cool and responded that she was open to whatever happened. We have not shared any information with family or friends because it’s only been one month and too early to be publicizing.
We are getting along great so far and I know that age is just a number.

So the question is:
Can the gap in age get in the way of a meaningful relationship? Also should a woman know by this age if she wants kids or not?
Age: 47

 

I think once someone hits their 30′s an age difference of 13 years is not that big of a deal. To me, the issue isn’t so much the chronological age gap, but rather the developmental difference between the two people. Someone here once told of her experience of being a college student of 20 or 21 and dating a man in his early thirties. The ten years that separated them wasn’t as troubling as the fact that she was a student in school and he was an adult. That’s where things get creepy for me. That sort of dynamic reeks of  looking for someone to worship them and wanting someone to control.

An adult male or female with an adult career and an adult life dating someone who is still, by all practical terms, a  young adult (18-25) feels inappropriate to me. Sure, I know people will say things like how it’s really about the two individual people, etc. I’ve found that the people who say such things are the people who do such things and feel defensive. We all know that there are socially acceptable age gaps and socially unacceptable age gaps. If that bothers you then don’t date someone barely out of high school or college. Frankly, if you choose or have to do that instead of dating someone closer to your own age, you have bigger issues.

It’s about the experiences that come with being a certain age that matter to me. You don’t want to be someone who has been financially independent their whole life taking on someone who has pretty much lived off their parents for most of theirs. Nor do you want to be someone who works 40-50 hours a week dating someone who has no experience with or understanding of that sort of schedule or lifestyle. You need to have commonalities in those areas. You can’t just say, “Well, we both like the outdoors and live music!” Shared interests are great but shared experiences are what help couples truly bond.

In my mind, there is no such thing as a “really mature” 22, 23, 24 year old. They might be mature for their age, but they’re not as mature as their much older counterparts. Which, I think, is the point of why these men and women date people in this age bracket. I mentioned it in yesterday’s post…I believe it’s a control issue and a need to be the superior partner that encourages people to date someone much younger than themselves. Someone that much younger with limited life experience won’t know that the person they’re dating has issues. They’re too busy being impressed by their lifestyle. Once they get out of their twenties it’s a whole different story. They’ve been through enough (or should have been) to understand more about relationships and life in general.

This doesn’t just apply to men, either.  A woman who dates someone  much younger does so for a reason, and that reason usually is she can’t get a guy her own age or the men her age don’t want her. Yes, there are the women who date younger because they don’t want to get married and have kids or have already done so. I know. But they are the exceptions to the rule, not the rule in my opinion. Any woman who says she wants to get married and have kids who gets seriously involved with someone much younger does not want a real relationship. She wants a boyfriend. That’s it. She’s settling because she wants to say she has a relationship, not actually wants or is capable of having a relationship.

As for whether or not a woman of 35 is reasonably sure of her decision to have or not have kids, I think that’s subjective. I don’t know enough about her to be able to tell you for sure. I think when a woman hits 38 or so, she’s probably more sure one way or the other. 35 is still young enough to change her mind. Only time will tell. You’ve done the right thing by telling her upfront that you don’t wish to have any more kids. It’s not on you if she decides she’s not really okay with that. I say ride this out and enjoy it.

 

 

DISCLAIMER – This site is about and for expressing my opinions.  Any likeness or similarity that they may have to persons living or dead is coincidence. I am not responsible for internal personalizations or general butthurtedness.If you’d like to file an I’m Butt Hurt!! complaint, please do so here.

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Ever Dated Someone As An Experiment?

Name: Derek
State: MA
Age:
Comment: I was at an event at a club and as I was leaving I bumped into a cute younger girl – as in, less than 30. I’m in my 40s, but fit and well turned out, if I may say. We chatted, had a hint of chemistry. She complimented my tie. We both were on our way somewhere, so I quickly got her e-mail address, and asked her out for a drink a day or so later. We e-mailed for a week to set up a mutually convenient time, and I looked forward to seeing her again. I thought the anticipation was shared, but when we met up the chemistry was gone. Frankly, she didn’t seem interested to be there. She acted as if she was just punching a clock, killing an evening with another round of free drinks. I was mystified, and deflated, honestly, and our date turned into a Q&A session. When we were parting on the street, she even turned away before she finished saying, “Thanks, it was fun.” What gives?

I think what possibly happened was that the night you and she met she had had a couple drinks, which made her more personable. Then, on your date, the “real” her came out. You were probably an experiment of some kind. I think a lot of women (and men) have accepted a date from someone that they didn’t typically date thinking it would be “intriguing.” I have a couple of friends (one African American, one Asian) who  have been on dates just like the one you describe. Their dates ask them a ton of questions, almost like they had never been on a date before. The general feeling both friends had was that their dates had this idea in their heads that dating for Asian or African American people was somehow different. I’ve even been in that position, where a guy would ask me all kinds of questions about the website and what I do. It’s a complete vibe killer.You feel like a show pony.

I think this girl went on this date more for the experience and the story than anything else. That’s usually why twentysomething women go out with men your age.  You were flattered by the attention from a younger woman. Easily flattered, actually. Her compliment about your tie was an awkward attempt at flirting. She was out of her depths and, like you, was probably flattered by the fact that an “older man” was flirting with her.

We’ve talked about this before. Women who date men not just chronologically much older than them but who are in a completely different stage of maturity usually do so for the bragging rights. They’re captivated by the man’s “sophistication” because they think that reflects well on them. Rarely are their friends actually impressed. More likely, the woman’s friends all think the guy is a creep or has no luck with women his own age. It really isn’t a coup.

A guy might get a few fist bumps for having sex with a younger woman. But dating her? Not so much. There’s this myth out there that men all pat each other on the back for getting a “younger” woman and I just don’t think that is the case. I honestly believe men question the judgment of men who date women much younger or in a complete different stage of emotional development. Mainly because those relationships usually involve a lot of unnecessary drama and difficulty.

As I said in a recent comment, I’ve worked with men in their early to mid twenties who refuse to date women under 21/22. Between the fact that they aren’t of legal drinking age to the difference in lifestyle and maturity, it’s far too much of a hassle.

OP, you saw this girl as an option. She saw you as an experiment. That’s it.

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How Young Is Too Young?

Question:

I’ll be 30 in a few months and met a girl where I work who is about to turn 21 . Some friends say she’s too young for me. How young is too young for someone my age to date?- T., NYC, Facebook

 

I really can’t answer that without knowing either of you and what you’re looking for.

Here’s my take: If you’re a reasonably attractive guy in Manhattan, have a decent personality and have your shit together, then you should be able to find someone closer to your age. If the best you can do is someone that young, then I have to wonder why. What is it about that particular person that you are drawn to when you’re surrounded by a bevvy of smart, intelligent, beautiful women closer to your age? If you’re not able to find someone a little older, there’s a reason for that. I don’t know what it is, but there’s something about someone that young that appeals to you.

Maybe women your age intimidate you, or maybe you don’t bring enough to the table to be able to sustain something with a woman your age. Maybe you aren’t ready for anything serious and would prefer to be with someone who is. Not sure. But with an age disparity like that, there are deeper issues at work. At least, I think they’re are.

At 29/30, I’d say the youngest you should go is 24/25. Something changes at that age. We’ve had  a few years to date in the real world, not college dating, which is a whole different animal. We’ve begun to or are well on our way to developing an identity and sense of self. Before that, certainly at 20 or 21, we just don’t have that. I think having that sense of self is crucial for both parties. Up to that point we’re kind of feeling our way around in the dark, discovering what we want, like and who we are.

I can remember a girl in college having  a much older boyfriend. He’d occasionally pick her up at the dorm or drop by our sorority parties. The few times he’d interact with us he’d make condescending comments, as if we were so silly for partying in a bar at 21.  My take on him was that he enjoyed having this “above it all” attitude. That was something he probably wouldn’t have if he were mingling amongst his peers. I think what appealed to him about my friend was that she was young and impressionable and a tad precocious. Dating an “older guy” made her feel impressive. The situation just had this “ick” factor about it. Even at 20, 21 or 22 some of us would wonder why he wasn’t dating someone his own age. He’d look odd and out of place at parties. But she was happy. She’d come to our sorority meetings and chat about where he took her for dinner and his apartment and his job. At 20 or 21, that stuff was impressive, as we didn’t have that. Someone older probably did and thus required more in terms of substance and accomplishment.

It’s different when you’re older. A 37-40 year old man dating a 27 year old doesn’t seem nearly as out of place. Or at least it doesn’t seem like he’s taking advantage of her naivete. I think that’s what rubs me the wrong way about the OP’s situation. There’s something predatory about someone his age dating someone that young.  Other factors play in to that feeling as well. Such as lifestyle, educational or career background. It makes me wonder of the older person uses such accomplishments  as a way to assert control or to gain admiration. Blind adoration.

So, that’s my take.

 

 

 

 

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