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Do Men Consider Women In Their 40′s Relationship Material?

April 24, 2013 by 162 Comments

Name: NBKEYBOARDACCESS

Comment: Moxie,

I’m a 40 yo single woman who has usually had a boyfriend, hence, I just started online dating about 5 months ago. Needless to say, it has been a disappointing and discouraging experience. I’ve never proactively dated, so I’m on the naive side. I do look 6-10 years younger,(and yes, I know every girl says this, but I’m happy to attach pictures to confirm)and am often asked out by men in their late 20′s to early 30′s. I recognize that these men have no interest in a relationship, but I’m always up for a fun night so I occasionally go. When I first started online dating the endless parade of dates was fun and exciting, but it got exhausting fast. 80% of them were unattractive or incompatible, and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand. Mind you, OKC was my site of choice.. so now I’m trying to limit myself to men who want more than a one night stand and to that end, will be upgrading from OKC to match.

My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material, or should I limit myself to 45+ yo men? As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand.

I’m going to blown your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.
My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material,

For the most part? No. Certainly not if they want children. But you’ll pursue them anyway, I’m sure because you’re convinced that you look young enough to be considered relationship material by them. That’s why you made it a point to mention your youthful appearance. You were setting up your defense. (And mind you, I wrote that part before I even read that last line.)

should I limit myself to 45+ yo men?

I don’t know if I would say that you should “limit” yourself to them. I think a better word is “focus.” You should direct your attention and efforts to meeting men in the 45+ range if you seek something committed and long term. If you seek a relationship, then you need to be looking at the Divorced Dad crowd and the guys in their mid/late forties to early fifties. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I don’t understand this whole thing about not wanting to date guys in their mid-forties. Yes, I know. You’re really active and fit and still dance like nobody’s watching, like when you were 25. You know what is the best thing about dating men 45 and older? They actually want you. Unlike those 38 year olds you’re hanging your hopes on who might date you for a few months until someone younger comes along. Because she will.

As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.

Nope. They pretty much still prefer younger women. The ones who are open to dating a woman of 40+ are in pretty high demand. If you want them, then be ready to go to the mattresses, because you will have stiff competition. Age trumps hotness, I’m afraid. Except with the younger guys. They just want to bang you for the story and experience.

I realize that this isn’t what you wanted to hear. But the fact is that you’ve had a string of boyfriends and nothing appears to have resulted in what you wanted. Or maybe it did and you’re just looking for a guy to date for a little while. I don’t know. What I know is that you’re now 40 and you’re doing what you can to find reasons why you can’t meet someone appropriate. It’s not OK Cupid’s fault. Welcome to dating at 40. Match isn’t going to be much different, especially if you try to get the guy in his thirties. This is what it’s like. You had 15+ years to find your Mr. Right. For whatever reason, none of those worked out in the way you wanted. Now you’re hoping that lightening will strike again.

The problem isn’t an algorithm or a website. You’re grappling with facing the reality that this is how dating is for you now. I’ve noticed that the women who return to the dating scene at some point in the last few years struggle the most. The dating landscape has changed and will continue to change change rapidly. It’s just..harder now. Especially for women our age. I’ve said this before: the 37-44 year old men in Manhattan and even Brooklyn aren’t looking for us. You’re going to have to branch out and start looking in Connecticut and New Jersey or even further. If you insist on local, then you have to channel your search and make yourself available to the 45-50 crowd. A lot of men 40-45 are still hanging on to the possibility of having children. Even if that pang to reproduce is faint, those guys are going to naturally seek out women they believe are of optimum child bearing age.

Dating isn’t like a vending machine. When the last Snickers bar is gone, the universe doesn’t magically put 10 more in your path. Your choice is to wait around for someone to come along and refill that option or select the Twizzler or Baby Ruth. Yeah, it’s not what you originally wanted. Someone came along before you and bought that Snickers before you could have a chance. That’s what it’s like to date at 40 in Manhattan or probably any other major city where there is an overage of single women to single men.

You can continue to pursue the late thirties to early forties guy. I’m not saying that getting one of them to commit is impossible. What you have to ask yourself is whether the frustration you will experience by holding out for them is worth your time. You also have to consider is whether or not you want to take those hits and run the risk of becoming less available and more impatient. There really is nothing more sad than listening to a woman in her mid-thirties and older complain about online dating and dating in general. The stench of bravado and remorse in her words is a pungent one.

 

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating 2.0, Dating Advice, Dating In a Big City, Dating is Fun, Dating Over 40, Older Women/Younger Men, On OK Cupid, Online Dating, Online Dating Tips Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Your New Dating Mantra: Absolutely No Regrets

November 29, 2012 by 30 Comments

Name: PJ
State: NY
Age: 62
Story: Dear Moxie,

I love reading your blog and always get something to think about and question my dating behavior.

I’m  in my early 60s having been married for over 25 years, but now a widow for the last 10.  During that time I dated relentlessly, probably over 300 guys, some of which did turn into short term relationships.  (3 to 6 months), with the exception of my last boyfriend.  When we met he showered me with lots of attention, went to a lot of places, concerts, dinners, movies and family get meetings.  After  6 months of dating I moved in with him, we had been seeing each other almost every night as it was, with me staying over.

He then informed me that he was going back to school, he is 20 years younger, to get his PhD, at first I was a little put off, because I really wanted a companion to do things with, maybe even travel, I know unrealistic expectations, has always been my Achilles’s heel.  But after dating so many men and not making a connection I thought I should be more supportive…At first it wasn’t too bad since the program wasn’t hard for him, but in the second year he began staying overnight at Lab {studying to be an organic chemist)  I was seeing him less and less. Things began getting strained with his temper flaring up at little things, he is super neat, and I am like Oscar Madison …he would yell “get out”, and then I saw he was writing emails to women on  dating sites.

At first I thought he was just looking for attention,  he is a Leo, they seem to crave attention, but then I found that he had gone out with someone and other signs,  pictures of him and her etc.  I moved out in February after two years,, I had kept my own apartment with the help of roommates.  I was hurt by the betrayal and vowed not to have contact with him.  But
he wrote me constantly, saying how sorry he was that he wasn’t sleeping with the other woman that she was just a friend, and that he doesn’t see her anymore.

Being an optimist and more of a romance addict, I started seeing him again, and spending nights at his place.  I remember your comment when you wrote OK Cupid that they should have a section where one can find more local guys.  This guy lives 20 blocks from me, 99% of the guys that write me are from other states or boroughs.  I’ve tried to have an open mind about dating out of townees, but seeing someone in Manhattan is so much easier.  I’ve tried to meet guys from here but they don’t seem to respond, I guess they are much more independent living in the city.

There are two guys that I have seen, one is older 73, who is dating another woman, but he constantly calls me, haven’t slept together, and so far we have had 5 dates,  due to meet next week.  He is easy to talk to and a recent divorcee, he says that the woman he is dating doesn’t want anything serious and that bothers him.  There is another guy 55 who has been writing me, he is in London on a business trip, we haven’t met yet, but he sends great emails, and we talk sometimes on the phone, hopefully he is really interested in dating, there are so many guys that  just turn out to be pen pals..

So my question is, since I’m still sleeping with my old boyfriend,  whom I see once a week or so; he does makes lavish dinners, or sometimes we go to the movies, but then I don’t hear from him for days on end.  He says he can’t sleep with anyone else that he doesn’t want to meet women, and that I am his destiny??…He has never been married or in a relationship longer than 2 years, which  is usually a red flag…Am I just deluding myself?  Is sleeping with him keeping me from moving on to a more sincere relationship..You have a much more practical view on things, would love your feedback.
City: New York

 

.Am I just deluding myself? 

Yes. Yes you are. For starters, this guy is a leech. I said it the last time you wrote in about him and I’ll say it again. No man in his forties is genuinely interested in dating a woman in her sixties. No how, no way. You wanted practical advice? There. Boom goes the dynamite.

Next? He totally was cheating on you. And he’s still sleeping with other women. Again, unless he has some senior fetish, he’s not so captivated by sex with you that he can’t imagine putting his penis in a younger vagina. Not happening. If he doesn’t have a fetish or a Mommy fixation, he’s angling to be remembered in your will or something similar. No kids? No husband? Yeah, that sounds about right.

I’m sorry to be so abrasive here, but you’re 62 years old. You’re just too old to be this simple-minded. Look at your life right now: 62 and living with roommates dating some dude 20 years your junior who probably cons lonely older women out of cash. Is this what you wanted for yourself?

I was reading a blog the other day. The author was around my age and lives in NYC. Like the OP, she had literally hundreds and hundreds of online dates in her late thirties. I think she once quoted the count at about 400 or 500. Two years later, she’s STILL writing posts about the guys who did her wrong once upon a time and how she’s become so cautious and suspicious because of those experiences. Underneath the bravado the regret and sadness pokes through, like a broken bone that has torn through flesh . All those chances. All those opportunities. Wasted. All because she was stuck in the past and refused to acknowledge why things were the way they were. Maybe she’s happy. I don’t know. I just know that when I read her blog, I wonder if she ever looks back and wonders what might have been. I can’t imagine a worse fate. Especially when all of those experiences and thoughts and choices were documented and witnessed by a bunch of strangers.

Yes, sleeping with this guy is preventing you from meeting other more appropriate men. Between your reliance on astrological signs and your over all naivete, I’m guessing you’re not one for critical thinking and common sense.It’s never too late for that, PJ. You still have quite a bit of time ahead of you. Start now so you can create the life you want, free of remorse.

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Filed Under: Closure, Dating, Dating Over 40, Older Women/Younger Men Tagged With: , , , ,

Is Male Approval *Really* That Important?

September 29, 2012 by 40 Comments

I’m fascinated by the fact that all the younger guys (35 and under) from OKCupid that email me and say the exact same thing. They make some effusive comment about my looks. What that really tells me is how younger men (or maybe men in general) perceive women “of a certain age” as feeling less than or unattractive in some way simply because we are no longer in our twenties or thirties. That we’re somehow *starved* for attention or validation. That a simple yet disingenuous compliment about our looks will make us more pliable. It’s insulting.

Equally insulting is the idea that men have the ability to “break our spirit” by offering some desperate attempt at an insult o our looks. Last week one of those Game/PUA guys tweeted at me that it looked like I was balding. (Note: That is not a cryptic plea for people to tell me “omigod that’s sooo stuupid you’re not balding.” I know that.) He deleted the tweet pretty quickly. What was I supposed to do or say in response to that? Was I supposed to get all fucked up about it and fear other men thought the same thing? No, really, I’m genuinely curious.

When women around here brag about “always” getting hit on by younger men, I just roll my eyes. I’d guess that, in 90% of those cases, those men are blowing smoke up that woman’s skirt not because he genuinely finds her attractive but because he believes it’s been a very, very long time since anybody has complimented her on her looks.

I could turn up the bravado and be all, ‘Oh no he di’in’t! I get told I’m beautiful allll of the time.” That, I’m sure, would get me all kinds of likes and retweets and “you go girls.”

The truth is, once we hit a certain age, the compliments do slow down. We don’t get the same amount of looks when we walk into a room as we used to. Strictly by being younger women are deemed more attractive.

And yet…I accept this. It’s supposed to bother me, though, right? I’m supposed to cry ageism and talk about how shallow men are and how “hot” I am and all the dates and sex I have. That’s what women are supposed to do, right? I can’t be bothered to get worked up by it. If anything, I’m more annoyed at the idea that women are supposed to crave the acceptance and attention from men. Especially women my age. I like male attention as much as the next girl…but liking it and needing it are two different things.

The whole purpose for most dating blogs isn’t to offer the author a creative outlet. That’s what they say, of course. The real reason most of those blogs exist is so the women (and sadster guys) can talk about all their dates and feel/give the impression that they are far more desirable than they actually are. They’ll even reveal some of the most jaw-droppingly embarrasing things. The question is: why? What is it about being able to say that you have a man in your life that is so important that women will forego all common sense and dignity just to have a guy to talk about? What is it about having a man that makes us more “okay?”

I was having a conversation about this with a couple of male friends this week. I was telling them about a few articles I had read where the authors had to work in mentions of their new “boyfriends.” They’re excited. I get that. I understand that the real motivator in those situations is to brag and, let’s be honest ladies, compete with other women. What I don’t understand is why these women feel as though having a man in their life somehow elevates them in some way. What is the real value of the man’s presence? Even in the comments here, I see women trip over themselves to talk about their relationships.

Why do we do that? What is it about having a man in our life that makes us feel smarter, wiser, more beautiful or more confident? Why do we feel a need to prove something to strangers?

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Filed Under: Am I Shallow?, Date Like a Man, Dating, Dating In a Big City, Dating Over 40, Older Men/Younger Women, Older Women/Younger Men Tagged With: , , , , , , , , , ,

Is This Cougar Being Used?

May 31, 2012 by 29 Comments

Name: Wendi
Age: 42
Website:
Question: I met a man a year ago on the Cougarlife website. He contacted me and said he was very interested in meeting me.  I’m 42 and he’s 26. I was surprised when he wanted a committed relationship about a month after we met. He’s from another country and doesn’t have his green card yet, although he’s been here for few years. He’s currentlY a grad student. He says he loves me and compliments me a lot and I like him a lot  but worried if he’s using me, for sex or money or whatever!

 

I don’t have any real idea what his intentions are.

Personally, I don’t see what a 26 year old man would want with a 42 year old woman. I mean, you met him on a website for Cougars. Doesn’t that tell you what he was seeking? Most people don’t join Cougar dating sites or Sugar Daddy sites for real companionship.

As for all the compliments, I wouldn’t read too much into that. I’ve mentioned before that I find effusive compliments disingenuous. Especially when they’re coming from some 26 year old guy who met me on a Cougar dating site. He saying nice things probably because he knows you want to hear them. Complimenting you greases the wheel so to speak.I don’t know where this all began, but a punch of these pick up programs seem to encourage men to compliment women they barely know. To me, that comes off as trying too hard. Either that or the person freely doling out the compliments is angling for something rather than just being themselves and being upfront. I’m sure some women like it. I’m just not one of them.

I do tend to believe that guys like this are “using” women for sex. But again, you advertised yourself as a Cougar. So you essentially presented yourself as someone looking to “use” a guy right back.

I was surprised when he wanted a committed relationship about a month after we met.

As you should be. Why would a 26 year old guy in NYC (with an accent, no less) be so quick to make that kind of sacrifice for a woman almost 20 years his senior? This guy could get laid left and right if he’s relatively attractive. Even if he’s a poor student.  The accent alone is a pantie dropper. So why would he be so willing to give up that variety for a much older woman? It doesn’t make sense to me. What does he get out of this? Sex? He can get that from a woman his own age or younger. So there has to be something more in this for him that is keeping him around. And I highly doubt it’s love or companionship. (Cue all the stories from women who have friends who married their much younger men and how omigod super happy they are. Super. Get back to me after they’ve been married 10+ years.)

It’s questions like this that women fail to ponder when their dream guy comes along and literally drops at their feet. They want to believe that The Universe has somehow delivered a gift to them as payback for all the disappointments and frustrations. Y’all know that I love me some God…but that’s not how God or The Universe works. We don’t accrue points that at some point get traded in for perks and bonuses. If something happens, it’s because it was either supposed to happen for a reason unbeknownst to us or it’s just a happening that occurred due to a series of conscious choices.

One of the most crucial dating skills someone can possess is critical thinking. You should not be opposed to challenging assumptions and questioning things that seem too easy or inconsistent with every other experience you’ve had.With experience you develop a baseline of what is “typical.”

For those who say I’m being cynical and jaded, need I remind you that the title of this column isn’t  “And That’s Why We Take Things At Face Value.”

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating Over 40, Dating Skills, Meeting Men, Meeting Women, Older Women/Younger Men Tagged With: , , , , , , , ,

How Women Talk Themselves Into Dating Mr. Wrong

January 25, 2012 by 30 Comments

Name: Shelly
State: PA
Age: http://44
Comment: I recently met this guy who is actually an old friend (never romantically) of a girlfriend of mine.  She has proceeded to tell me all about his past (she hasn’t seen him in 20 yrs) to try to persuade me to stay away from him.

A little insight as to the mindset of my girlfriend, she just recently had a guy dump her in the most unkind way, so she is totally jaded towards men. She typically talks down on anything good anyone else has going on in their life. Which I truly believe is fueling her attitude regarding me and this new prospect.

Being that I like to form my own opinion about people, I went out on a few dates with him.  I did tell him the things that she had warned me about, to which he replied ” that was 20 years ago” she doesn’t know anything about me now.

Anyway, we hit it off much better than I had expected, he’s not typically the “look” that I would date but I, as I get older, am trying to change my mindset regarding looks, etc.

I have a great time with him, he is funny as hell!  But I still have my girlfriend chirping in my ear.

My question is since he is not typically the type I date, can all the other things that he has going for him compensate?

Also he is 38 and I am 44.
I think it can but I don’t want to disillusion myself.

Thanks!

 

A little insight as to the mindset of my girlfriend, she just recently had a guy dump her in the most unkind way, so she is totally jaded towards men. She typically talks down on anything good anyone else has going on in their life. Which I truly believe is fueling her attitude regarding me and this new prospect.

Okey dokes. Here’s the first red flag for me. You felt the need to throw your friend under the bus in order to justify why you’re dating this man. If you have to do that, it’s not a good sign.

I did tell him the things that she had warned me about, to which he replied ” that was 20 years ago” she doesn’t know anything about me now.

You told her what she said because you feared she was telling the truth. I don’t know what this guy allegedly did or didn’t do. I don’t know anything about him because you’re not telling me what she told you. (Second red flag, by the way.) Granted, he’s right that she doesn’t know him and that 20 years have passed and whatever he did he was apparently 18 years old. Lord knows we all did stupid things at that age.But without knowing what he did I can’t say if you should proceed with caution or not.

Anyway, we hit it off much better than I had expected, he’s not typically the “look” that I would date but I, as I get older, am trying to change my mindset regarding looks, etc.

Third red flag. You’re justifying your decision to date him. You know that saying you’re trying to broaden your horizons is going to win you points.

I have a great time with him, he is funny as hell!  But I still have my girlfriend chirping in my ear.

Okay. Had you not said all the other stuff you said and were there not some isolated red flags, I’d tell you to be cautiously optimistic and enjoy. But there’s something about this situation that feels off. It’s almost like maybe what your friend told you was something pretty damaging, something that might even scare you a bit, and you don’t want to think of yourself as “that” desperate that you’d date someone who did such a thing. When you confront someone with news that a friend has told them something bad about them, the typical response of someone who has matured or changed isn’t “well it was 20 years ago.” He very well could have had more of an explanation. But I’d think if he had expressed remorse, you’d have included that in your letter.

My question is since he is not typically the type I date, can all the other things that he has going for him compensate?

And all those other things would be….what now? Because other than he’s “funny as hell” you haven’t shared why this guy is so great. Fourth red flag.

Also he is 38 and I am 44.
I think it can but I don’t want to disillusion myself.

Fifth red flag.  The fact that you fear disillusioning yourself tells me that you know that you are.

I don’t know you, I don’t know this guy and I don’t know your friend. All I have to go on is this letter. As such, I have to say that you seem to be sticking with this guy because he’s out of your league somehow. (He’s younger, he’s “funny” aka charming. ) Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with a woman your age dating  a guy his age. Most women our age (38-45) date 37-50. A lot of us, especially those of us who know they don’t want kids and aren’t in a rush for marriage, have some wiggle room. But there’s a tone of desperation in this letter that I don’t like. You are trying very hard to discredit your friend over a guy you barely know. That’s what bothers me. It’s one thing to say that your friends said XYZ. But you’re qualifying those statements by criticizing her. That’s what we do when we know we’re doing something we shouldn’t.

My suggestion is to keep your head in the game and pay attention and recognize when you’re justifying his behavior or the relationship. You shouldn’t have to do that if the relationship and the man in question has real potential. Frankly, I find this kind of dating, when you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop, to be exhausting. Dating is supposed to be fun and this doesn’t sound fun. You sound anxious and unsure of yourself. Any time a man has that affect on a woman, she should walk away. That’s my general rule of thumb.

You can date this guy and have fun. But you know something is off.


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Filed Under: Dating, Dating Over 40, Girlfriends, Latests Posts, Older Women/Younger Men Tagged With: , , , , ,

The Reluctant Cougar

August 8, 2011 by 112 Comments

Name: Reluctant Cougar |  | Location: Bronx , NY |Question: Your recent email advertising, “Cougar & Boy Toy Speeddating – SOLD OUT FOR MEN” got me to thinking: WHY are younger men so attracted to older women these days?  I am 39 and although I’ve been told that I look “good for my age,” most men routinely guess my age correctly within a couple of years.  (Interestingly enough, most women think that I’m five to twelve years younger, but that’s another story….)  Within the past six months, the guys who have hit on me are between 22 and 32 — even when there are much younger women for them to hit on.  By contrast, the men in their late 30s/early 40s (i.e., the ones who I’m more interested in starting relationships with) seem to be more interested in either cheating on their wives with any age woman or, if they’re single, in women in their 20s or early 30s max.  Courtney Cox’s TV show not withstanding, what do you make of “Generation Y” men’s fascination with Gen X women, Moxie?  And do you have any advice for this very reluctant “Cougar”?  I would much rather be attracting men with whom I could have some sort of long-term relationship and — call me crazy — but I just don’t think the 22 year old fits the bill. |Age: 39

 

WHY are younger men so attracted to older women these days?

Sex. That’s it. It has nothing to do with a fascination between the generations. The PC explanation is usually that we’re comfortable with ourselves, know what we want, have let go of various insecurities, etc. But the real reason is that they think we’re more sexually experienced and want to takes us for a spin.

It seems to me that the whole Cougar fascination has died out. Ashton has allegedly cheated on Demi, Susan and Tim are kaput. Madonna and Guy Ritchie hit the skids. Even the show Cougartown, which I love love LOVE, changed it’s focus away from the whole older woman sleeping with younger men by the end of its first season. (If you DVR this show, watch the opening credits. Week after week, Cox has them change the sub-heading over the main title to something referring to their horrible judgment in choosing the title for this series and wanting to change it.)

(Interestingly enough, most women think that I’m five to twelve years younger, but that’s another story….)

Mmmm…no…I’m betting they don’t. We all know that women want to be told they look younger than they are, so we usually shave about 5  or more years off our guesses. 35 doesn’t look any different than 39. But 27 looks  a hell of a lot different from 39. It just does. Don’t be ashamed of your age. It is what it is. You’ll fall in to that trap of believing you look younger so you should be able to attract men younger or your age. That’s just a frustrating game of chase your tail.

By contrast, the men in their late 30s/early 40s (i.e., the ones who I’m more interested in starting relationships with) seem to be more interested in either cheating on their wives with any age woman or, if they’re single, in women in their 20s or early 30s max.

Now you’re just trying to justify your desire to go for  a younger guy. You want to take one for a spin? Do it. If you choose correctly and can stay detached, you can probably get a great ego boost from it. Rid yourself of the idea that you’d be dealing with someone who is emotionally mature and self-aware, because you likely won’t be. Guys in their late twenties/early thirties are still figuring themselves out. You don’t want to get caught in that. Also understand that they’re still trying to find their way around the bedroom. My one experience with a much younger guy involved me taking the lead and him following. And while it was good, it was clear he was intimidated by the disparity in our individual levels of experience. He also had no idea what his sexual personality was.  I’d much prefer being with a man with confidence and knew what he liked and what he wanted sexually. That kind of confidence and self-awareness you find in a man our age.

I would much rather be attracting men with whom I could have some sort of long-term relationship and — call me crazy — but I just don’t think the 22 year old fits the bill.

You’re right. A 22 year old probably isn’t going to meet your emotional needs. Or your sexual ones. Neither will the 29 year old. Possibly not even the 35 year olds. You’re 39. The reason, I think, you’re considering this is because you’re feeling frustrated. And that’s what the younger guys see. They assume we’re just beaten enough to be open to their attention. I think it’s the reverse mentality for younger women who go after much older men. They assume these guys have been treated poorly by their ex wives and need an ego boost. This, more than anything, is what I resent about getting hit on by younger men. Rarely do I think it’s based on genuine attraction.

In my mind, neither sex “gets away with it.” I think the older man with the much younger woman looks as ridiculous as the older woman and her younger guy.

Thoughts?

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Filed Under: Date Like a Man, Dating, Latests Posts, Older Women/Younger Men, Sex

Cock Whipped By a Younger Man

May 25, 2011 by 61 Comments

Name: amazingg0477 | | Location: San Francisco , CA |Question: I’ve been involved in an on-again/off-again (but mostly on-again) friends with benefits arrangement with someone 9 years younger than me.  This thing was supposed to be strictly about sex, and the occasional dinner/sightseeing excursion but things have gone off the rails as of late.  You know how dating websites and advice columnists always insist that you should look at a person’s actions and not what they say in order to determine what’s really going on?  Well, the things coming out of his mouth don’t match what he’s doing.  I did my darndest to keep this thing on the straight and narrow – not sleeping over, not calling in between “sessions” and continuing to to date others.  Especially after I started to catch some feelings.  I pulled back, redefined boundaries.  He balked.  Sulked that I only saw him as a sex object, that I wasn’t there for him when he was going through a tough time (I was in a brief but exclusive relationship at the time).  Expressed jealousy that I had been dating other guys.  Pushed for weekend trips to exotic locales.  We spend at least one day/night together each week.  We have romantic dinners at restaurants in fancy hotels with stunning views (we split the bill in case you were wondering).  We walk hand-in-hand or arm-in-arm down the streets of San Francisco.  Have fun little rituals like “Porn Sundays.” Cuddle and talk for hours after sex.  I am “always welcomed” to come and stay with him.  We are not allowed to make plans/dates with others without giving the other first dibs on prime date nights.  We are not allowed to cancel dates with each other for anyone.  His friends know about me and mine about him, yet we have not been introduced.  Yet, he never fails to remind me that this is NOT a relationship, that he doesn’t want anything beyond a FWB.  Holy mixed signals batman!  What the heck is going on here?  To complicate matters even further, we have both confessed to eahc other that there are “feelings.”  But a real relationship, due to the age difference and other criteria is not something that either of us think can work out.  Can I pull this train back on the FWB track or is it time to call this thing quits?   |Age: 34

 

I did my darndest to keep this thing on the straight and narrow

No you didn’t.. If you did, you would have put an end to all of this a long time ago.  You like him. You know you like him. So just admit it and stop telling yourself about how aware you are of all the obstacles.

I’m not going to address the FWB aspect of this charade. It’s not FWB. It’s a relationship. You and The Biebs are in a relationship. And you’re letting this kid – and he is a kid – dictate how things will play out. It’s ridiculous. You’re 34 years old. This kid probably just graduated college last year. Why are you letting him tell you what’s going on? Where’s your say in the matter?

I’ve been in your shoes. I got involved with a guy who was much younger (10+ years) than me at one point. And it was a nightmare. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever made and I deeply regret it. Do you know why?

Because guys that age, in their early to even late twenties, are tragically out of their league trying to date a woman much older than them. They make things that are supposed to be simple very difficult strictly because they don’t understand why certain things like follow through and effective communication are important to us.  They’re used to dating women their age or younger. Those women are far easier to please and better able to tolerate the inevitable bullshit these guys bring to the table.They’re easier to manage and handle. They’re simple.

We are not simple. We’ve been there, done that.

These younger guys find these women, set their terms and the women just fall in line. Do you really want to have to do that? At 34 years old? For a 23 year old?? Maintain your dignity and walk. Pronto.

These younger guys like the idea of being involved with someone older. But when faced with what it actually entails, they will almost always run for the hills. We’re too much work. Not in a bad way. Just in the sense that we know what they’re doing and up to before they do. And then we become, in the words of Miranda Hobbs, Mean Mommy. “And nobody wants to fuck Mean Mommy.”

This guy is playing house with you. He’s having a big boy relationship. But what he’s not bringing to the table, and it’s the thing that you clearly want and need, is emotional support. (But of course he’ll demand emotional support for himself or try to make you feel guilty for “not being there” for him. Fuck that noise.)

These romantic trappings are adorable and sweet and fun. But there isn’t an ounce of substance to it. He’s doing and saying all the things that a man who was truly committed to you would say. But he’s not committing. It’s not real. Even if it is…he’s not capable of delivering the goods. He’s too young. He’s not emotionally mature enough to follow through. You’re wrong in that his words and actions don’t match. For the most part they do. Where things differ, and it’s the one statement you do need to listen to, is that he’s not looking for a commitment. He’s using the word relationship, but what he means is commitment and obligation. He wants what he wants when he wants it. And what he wants right now is a companion. Not a partner.

This  guy will NEVER give you what you want. Get out now. For the sole reason that you have feelings for him. This will end badly. There’s really nothing worse than realizing that you let some young whippersnapper get the best of you. Trust me.

 

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Filed Under: casual sex, Dating, Latests Posts, Older Women/Younger Men

Has Dating Become Too One Dimensional?

February 13, 2011 by 7 Comments
Hi Moxie,
You’ve given some excellent advice to a good friend of mine so she encouraged me to write to you with my problem.

I’ve been dating a guy I really like for a few months. We go out at least once a week (usually a Thursday or Saturday night) and talk on the phone/email at least four or five times a week. He tells me he is really enjoying getting to know me and I feel the same way. I am very comfortable with him.
The problem is, we are not exclusive. I’m not dating anyone else but he is. He doesn’t talk about the other women but I know they exist because of the messages they post on his Facebook page talking about dates, etc. I know I should only focus on our connection but I have to tell you, it drives me nuts imagining he is with someone else. I know I need to deal with the situation or end it with him but with everyone using social media, I imagine I would have the same problem with any other guy I’m in the dating stage with. I want to know how other woman – and men – deal with this. Before FB, I could pretend these other woman don’t exist but now I can’t.
By the way, I don’t post these kind of messages on his wall because I don’t want these other women to know about me.
Sandy, 35, New York
Okay..you’re the same woman who submitted this letter a few months ago…

Name: Curly Girl | | Location: New York , NY |Question: Hi Moxie,
I dated this guy for a few months last year but shortly afterwards, his job transfered him across the country. He did the fade away (I guess it was understandable. We weren’t serious or anything). I didn’t hear from him until earlier this year when he found me on Facebook and sent me a friend request. He started doing heavy flirting with me on his Facebook page, and I enjoyed it and flirted back. We then started IMing each other and we admitted that we did like each other back then and wished we had more tome together.

A few weeks into it, I got a message from a female friend of his who lives in my state. She asked me how I knew him, etc. I didn’t say much but she kept pushing the issue and told me they used to date (found out she was the woman after me), but he dumped her without a word. I ignored her and she went away.

A few weeks ago, a huge drama erupted on his Facebook page with her and another woman. They both accused him of playing them and leading them on. He came in and defended himself but the thread stayed up.

I never brought this up with the guy (although I found it odd no one came to his defense). BUT … he hasn’t defriended either of these women and they are all still friends on messenger.

Can you please explain what is going on? One women is in her 40s and thee others are in their late 30s. What are they getting out of this? And what’s up with him? Why did he contact me again and say he liked me? |Age: 37

Here’s a funny story….when Facebook switched their layout a few months back, it made some people’s photos vieweable to those that aren’t their friends. I was involved with someone particularly private.  I don’t maintain any kind of social media connection with men I date, for this exact reason as well as for privacy purposes. So we never even exchanged FB friend requests.

Jesus Christ almighty, was that a game changer.

I saw pictures of his ex, his friends, his past..and those photos told me way more about him than I had known, even from conversation. You can tell so much from looking at photos. The ones of he and his Ex were the most telling. There he was, always looking straight at the camera, body turned out or away from her, her always leaning in towards him and touching him.  It was clear that she was quite taken with him and loved him quite a bit. He looked…detached. There was something about his body language that struck me. It was…closed off. I was seeing a side to him that I had never seen before…and I didn’t really like it. I ended up telling him that his photos were now public just because I knew how private he was. I almost feel like he felt the power balance had somehow shifted. Now the “mystery” so to speak was gone, or had at least diminished somewhat. This is why social media and dating don’t mix. It takes away the fun of getting to someone. We also potentially project all of our “stuff” on to that person based on 140 characters, or college photos, or random status updates and Wall postings. Which isn’t to say that there aren’t times when what we glean from these micro-expressions of personality isn’t accurate. It’s just that as many times as we’re right, we are wrong. When we’re in those moments of infatuation, it’s hard to be objective. That’s why continuously reading and watching someone’s Twitter account or FB page can be really counter-productive.

Social Media has diminished dating to a one dimensional experience.

Who we are online isn’t always an accurate representation of who we are off line. (Although, to bloggers who say that they only share a “slice” of who they are on their blog, we reveal far more about ourselves than we realize. You’d be shocked at how accurately some people can profile us base don what we believe is innocuous information.)

There’s an easy solution to this, you know.

UNFRIEND HIM.

That way you can’t see what he’s up to or who he’s talking to. Or at least Hide him from your page so you can’t see who is posting what to his wall. There’s nothing that forces you to check his page, BTW.

The only reason you know this guy is dating other women is because you’re monitoring him. You have to wean yourself off of that. It’s just way too unhealthy. You don’t want to know what he’s up to.  As I said to you the last time, the people who do things like this, write little cutesy notes on the Walls of the people they are dating, are just marking their territory. They want everyone to know that they have this particular person’s time and attention. It’s actually quite lame, in my opinion. It’s like the people who post a bazillion photos of just themselves and are always adding photos of just them to their pages. They just want everyone to tell them how attractive, cute, whatever they are. It’s exhausting.

This guy seems to trigger insecurity in women. Yes, you need to speak up and ask him where you stand. That’s what has you so fixated on his Facebook page. You’re looking for answers from his social network, but not from him. And he’s blithely (or not so) going about his days doing what he wants. I mean, it’s kind of ballsy of him to give all these women access to his FB page. He either is totally oblivious…or he likes letting these women know that he’s a free agent who will be tied down by no one. It’s rather manipulative, don’t you think? I mean..common sense would tell someone that it’s not the best idea to air that sort of private information. yet..he is. Why? And why are you still stuck in this place where he has all the power? You need to find your voice. You need to express to him what is making you uncomfortable. You also need to ask him what the story is with all these women. The problem is, it’s fifty/fifty whether or not he’ll be honest. So where are you then?

This guy is playing head games, and you’re falling for them. Right now, he’s controlling the progression of this relationship and you are a willing participant. He’s probably waiting for you to speak up and say something. That’s how he intends on whittling down his list of options. Take the control back by initiating the conversation. If he tells you that this is how things are he doesn’t plan on changing, walk. Yes, you’re giving him what he believes he wants. Who cares? You’re getting back what you need…control of your situation and your self-respect.

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Filed Under: Dating, Dating In The Time of Over Sharing, Social Media

Best of Moxie – When He Seems Too Good To Be True, He Usually Is

January 19, 2011 by 8 Comments

Originally posted April, 2009 – 36 Comments

Name: Pilot Girl || Location: Toronto , Ontario |Question: Hi  Moxie, I was recently contacted by a 29-year old man on POF. Now, I agree with you that most younger men on these dating sites aren’t looking for anything serious (especially with an older woman). For this reason I usually don’t reply and simply delete the messages.But I have two girlfriends who are in successful long-term relationships with considerably younger men (by more than 10 years). And during dinner one night they urged me not to write these men off without at least giving the more sincere ones a shot. So when an attractive, mature sounding 29-year old guy contacted me I thought “why not”? and wrote him back.We only had one date, never made it to the second one. The first date went really really well I thought. We both laughed a lot and had a great time getting to know each other. We actually had a lot more in common than I thought considering the age difference. During the date I tried to ‘read him’ to see if he was just looking for sex. But it was hard to tell because sparks were flying in all directions (on both sides) and I probably wasn’t thinking very clearly. For the record, I didn’t get a sense from his profile or initial email to me that he was a player looking to hook up (like with some other emails I get from younger men). His email was thoughtful. And although he was in the “dating” section he did mention several times in his profile that he was looking for a long-term partner. This is the only reason I wrote back to him in the first place.

After our fun date he walked me home, we exchanged a long hug and then he kissed me on the lips. Then he said he would be contacting me very soon.By the time I got up to my condo there was a text from him saying that he had a really good time and that I was “funny”, “sexy” and “amazing”. I replied that I enjoyed meeting him too and we wished each other good night.The next day he sent me a text message during the day and we chatted for several minutes. He said he wanted to see me again very soon. So we made a date for the following night. Normally I wouldn’t schedule a date so soon but he said he was going away for the weekend and wanted to see me before he left. So I agreed. This is where it all went downhill.

I got a text message from him the following morning saying that he had to cancel our date. He needed to go out of town a day earlier than planned. But that he definitely wanted to get together when he returned.In all honesty I was a bit skeptical. Having to go away earlier than planned? Really? I guess it’s possible. But I thought a more likely explanation was that he met someone else or just changed his mind or whatever. Which is fine.

In the end I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. I simply replied “no worries :) ” to him cancelling, and “OK :) ” to his suggestion that we get together the following week. I wanted to keep it short and sweet (that’s why I included the smiley faces), so that he didn’t think rescheduling was a big deal. Because it wasn’t. I didn’t think I’d hear from him again.A few days later he sent me an email through POF (which I thought was strange because we had been communicating by text message at this point). But he was friendly and still seemed very eager to get  together. We chatted about this and that, and how our weekends were going and then suddenly things got weird. Here’s a snippet of that part of the conversation:

He said: I might be coming home a day earlier than planned.I replied: Great. Perhaps you’ll have some time to enjoy your weekend before you have to go back to work.
He said: Does enjoying my weekend involve kissing you some more?

Side note: This threw me a little. I didn’t know how to respond. Was he just being playful? Or was he showing his “I want to get in your pants” side?

I replied: Wow, you young’uns are really direct.
He said: I guess a little bit. I can’t deny I haven’t been thinking about it. Haven’t you? Wait, young’uns, you said plural. Do I have competition lol..?
I replied: Well just as I’m sure I probably do too…lol. Isn’t that why we’re on POF? To date many people until we meet the “one”. But then again you’re in the datin
g section, so your goals may be a little different than mine”.

He said: I don’t have a problem with a little competition. It’s to be expected. And I may be in the dating section but I’m definitely looking for the long story. Besides, I miss having those drinks the other night, especially with such lovely company.
I replied: Well then why don’t we get together when you get back.
He said: OK. When are you free?
I replied: Monday or Tuesday.
He said: Tuesday works for me. We can have drinks or watch a movie at my place.

Side note: at this point I’m thinking to myself that if a guy invites a woman to his place to watch a  movie on the 2nd date he is definitely looking to hook up.

I replied: Rain check on the movie if that’s ok with you. So drinks on Tues?
He said: For sure! It’s a plan.
I replied: Have a lovely weekend. Talk soon :) .

End of email conversation. On Monday he sends me the following message: I have to cancel. I’ll be working out of town all week. Not sure when I’ll be back. Maybe we can have a drink some time in the future, blah blah blah.

Basically blowing me off. So this is where I’m left scratching my head a little bit. Is this another case of the slick younger man hoping to have sex with an older woman? Hence, the kissing comment, then suggestion that we watch a movie at his place on the 2nd date. And when it became clear that I wasn’t interested in hooking up, did he made an abrupt departure? My girlfriends on the other hand think he was being open and sweet, keeping in touch regularly to show me that he was interested, and that I was the one who freaked him out with my aloofness and the “young’uns”, “dating other people” and “looking for different things” comments. What do you think?      |Age: 39

I think you shouldn’t listen to your girlfriends. They’re going to be in your shoes in the imminent future. They’re just trying to get more and more women out there to date much younger men so they don’t feel embarrassed and pathetic. My friend B. said it best today.

“women give each other horrible advice.  They listen, to guess what the other person wants to hear.  Then they say it without believing it under the pretense of ‘i wanted her (you) to feel better.’  Women rarely have friends to hold each other accountable.”

As for the fact that this guy didn’t have any tell tale signs of looking to get laid in his profile. Well, that would kind of defeat the point, wouldn’t it? I mean, it’s not like he’s going to tell you he’s just looking for sex. He’s probably going to play that very close to the vest. Never give a guy points for doing what he’s supposed to do.

Here’s are some general rules of thumb. When someone I barely know, even after having one date with him, sends me cutesy, sexy texts talking about wanting to kiss me and telling me how sexy I am (RED FLAG!) then I’m suspicious. Ladies, stop making so much of these types of gestures when barely know the guy. It stands to reason that someone who acts like that before knowing you well or barely at all either has an agenda OR they’re kinda nuts.

These over zealous guys that we meet, especially from online dating sites, are almost always going to flake out very quickly. It’s just not normal for a guy to be so invested so quickly. Guys who do this are either crash and burn guys or guys who are looking to get laid. Both types go through the motions until they get what they want. Then they come up with the famous excuse of “Work is really busy this time of year, not sure I can devote much time to anything too involved. But (there’s always a but!) I think you’re really great and like hanging out with you…” Then you find yourself having one Dignity Date a week, then heading back to your place for sex and then he leaves.

You need to listen to your gut more. It was spot on throughout this scenario. Bullet dodged. You’d have felt even worse if you had slept with him. And, despite your protests, you totally would have slept with him.

 

ETA JANUARY 2010:  If I had a dollar for every story I’ve heard about how that one guy that that one woman met that exceeded her expectations after one or two dates, or how he had atypical reactions to certain things, I’d be rich. While there are always those instances where that one guy truly is totally into you or more emotionally evolved than most, usually if it seems to good to be true, it is. We all want to believe that we are that one special jockey to tame that wild horse. In fact, it becomes somewhat of a personal goal. We don’t just want any guy. We want the guy that changes “just for us.” We want that brass ring. We want to be able to say that we got that one unicorn, not because that unicorn makes us happy, but because we have something to prove to ourselves, friends, family members, readers, etc.

It is incredibly hard to change learned behavior. It can happen, but in order for that change to stick, the guy actually has to be committed to making that change and has to believe it will make his life easier or better. Often times people just pretend to change because it makes things easier. But eventually those old habits and behaviors will rear their heads again.

If what they’ve been doing has been working for them, it’s highly unlikely that someone will change overnight, even if they’ve met the person of their dreams. So if you meet someone who seems to have a ton of options, has never managed to settle down, etc….be careful. Not because that person might hurt you. You might turn out to be that one person that makes them want to change. Be cautious that you don’t start to see this person as some prize that you desperately want to win. When we fixate on “winning” that person, we block out all the well intended advice from friends, our own instincts and we become blind to the very obvious signs that this person will not be around for long.

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Filed Under: Best of Moxie, Men & Conflict, Older Women/Younger Men, Sex

A Man With a Plan

January 11, 2011 by 16 Comments

Name: Belle  | Location: Washington  , DC |Question: Moxie… here’s my question – What are your thoughts on older women/younger men relationships? Can it truly ever work – meaning long term, for life maybe? I’m 41, he’s 28. I knew him casually for a year+ before anything happened. I knew he was interested – but he was clearly nervous about it. My original intent was to set him up w/ a friend who was closer to his age. But, he quickly made it clear that he was not interested in that.. at all. He took that opportunity to state what he did want – he and I and no one else. I thought he was crazy!! I resisted for a while – cute as he is – but eventually he won. He wouldn’t listen to the age difference argument – said he didn’t care and doesn’t want to know. I do not look anywhere near my age.
I thought..ok, he is adorable and this will be fun! Admittedly, I did’t exactly treat him very well – he worked so hard to get and keep me. You know how most people will disappoint you? He never did.. he always surprised me – he just got better and better. It ended when he moved away. I knew that was going to happen from the beginning. I thought it would make it easier by having a built in exit :) The problem is… I still miss him terribly and no else comes close to how I feel when I’m with him.  We still speak, he has asked me to visit numerous times – I have refused. I can’t stay stuck on him forever and want to move on. I am afraid the age difference will become an issue later on.
But maybe, just maybe.. I am wrong….

|Age: 42

He wouldn’t listen to the age difference argument – said he didn’t care and doesn’t want to know.

Doesn’t want to know…what? How old you are? If that’s the case, then he’s not nearly as okay with the age difference as he claims to be.

Next, which is it…are you 41 or 42?

Here’s what I think…I think anything is possible between two people who know themselves and are confident with where they are at in life, and know what they are getting in to. Unfortunately, I don’t think many of these much older someone/much younger someone scenarios ever work out for these exact reasons. They’re fun, they’re a great distraction…but ultimately, the life experience and emotional maturity levels are so drastically disproportionate that they end up getting in the way.

The main issue that I have noticed/experienced with the older person/younger person scenario is that one person is used to dating people of a certain age and mindset, and struggle with having to step it up. What a 24 year old might believe or accept is not typically what a 42 year old would believe or accept.

A 24, 25, 26 year old is more ..let’s say…tolerant.   A 42 year old doesn’t want words, they wants actions. A lot of  younger people are profoundly out of their depths when dealing with a woman or man in their late thirties or forties. We just don’t have time or energy for the bullshit, we’ve seen it, we’ve done it…either step it up, or go home.

I honestly don’t know what to say here. I don’t know if it’s worthwhile to stay hooked on this guy. I know what it’s like to not have a lot of other distractions and hold on to something just because it’s better than having nothing. I get it. That need for attention, that feeling that someone is thinking of you. It makes a difference sometimes. But there comes a point where you have to do a cost benefit analysis. You also have to have an honest and frank conversation with this guy and ask him what he wants and what he can offer. I don’t care how old you are..25 or 45…life is just too fucking short to waste time with all this coulda woulda shoulda nonsense.

If he tells you he wants to be with you, really be with you, then you need to step up YOUR game. Either you trust him or you don’t. You can’t sit around and keep score.

The one hesitation I have here is that, if this guy was so genuinely interested…why did he move away? To me, that sends a distinct “not interested” vibe. He might very well be interested in you and have genuine feelings for you. Or he just thinks it’s fun to dally with an “older woman.” Maybe he likes the attention as much as you do. I don’t know. The only way you will know is to have a conversation and ask him.

I used this example once before but it seems appropriate for this letter. I love the show The Good Wife. The lead character, Alicia, is married. Her politico husband had publicly cheated on her and they were struggling to rebuild their marriage. Alicia went to work for a law firm where one of the partners was her old college flame, Wil. They flirt, they have a genuine friendship. Obviously there are true feelings there. So Will decides to tell Alicia how he feels. Before he can do that, Alicia cuts him off and says:

“What’s your plan? I need to know your plan. I have kids and parent teachers meetings and a husband with a politician. How are we going to deal with this?”

A lot of people like to talk and tell you what they think you want to hear. Or even what they want to hear. It’s the people with a plan that are the ones who mean it. They’ve thought it through, they’ve looked at it from every angle, they’ve weighed the pros and cons. Those are the people you trust.

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Filed Under: Dating, Older Women/Younger Men, To Settle or Not To Settle
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