What’s Up With These Awful OK Cupid Messages?

Name: APralph3
Comment: I’ve recently joined OkayCupid and I’m a little baffled at bit of behavior I’ve seen and was hoping for some insight.

Living in the Midwest I feel that the dating experience for gay men and women is a little more limited when compared to our straight counterparts.  I recall recently reading about a study that said over 61% of same-sex couples say they’ve met partners through and online dating sites compared with just 13% of opposite-sex partners.  I realize for a smaller community of people connecting online allows users to meet a greater number of people more quickly than they would in person and this avenue includes a lesser risk of rejection as well.

Since rejoining the online dating world I’ve received a fair number of emails that have caught me off guard.  For example…

“Hi. I saw that you visited my profile and just wanted to see what was goin’ on. :)

“Couldn’t help but notice you checked out my profile. I returned the favor. I think you did a nice job of filling it out. Its good to know you still have all you non essential appendiges, lol. Would be interested in getting to know you sometime. Message me back if you like.”

Moxie, I’m confused.  Admittedly, I’ve been out of the online dating loop for a while but is this what communication has boiled down to?  It’s not so much the content that has me confused, it’s how both people began their emails.  Remember in middle school when kids would pass those “Do you like me? Check Yes, No or Maybe” notes around?  This seems to be a more grown-up, passive-aggressive version of that.

I’m glad that I’m receiving ANY replies to my profile but it’s the tone of these that bother me so much.  Is this how people start conversations online these days?  I could care less if these guys chose to contact me because they saw me on their Visitors list but what happened to basic social skills?  Would these guys walk up to someone in public and say “I saw you glance at me across the street and thought I’d say hi”.  Would these people still have messaged me if they HADN’T seen my profile on their Visitors list?  It feels like the online equivalent of the guy in the corner of a bar waiting for someone to make eye contact so they can start a conversation.

I feel it’s worth mentioning that normally the senders of these emails are not the type of people I would choose to contact myself.  Very low Match %, doesn’t match my stated preferences in my profile, etc.

Moxie, should I reply to these emails?  If I do, what should I even say?

I try to make it a point to reply to every email I get (within reason) and in doing so I’ve established some great friendships with people I don’t consider compatible with myself on a romantic level.  Is it wrong for me to be so off-put by how these guys chose to contact me?  I’m normally not so uptight just confused about the lack of basic social skills and tact.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Age: 28
City: Omaha
State: Nebraska

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the messages that were sent to you. These guys are smart. They’re going through their visitors and contacting people who viewed their profile. That’s what online daters should be doing rather than sending a bunch of random messages to people who haven’t initiated some for of interest.

I’m not sure what it is you’re expecting with these emails. And that’s your problem. You’re expecting something more, something different. Why? Because you feel these guys whose league you feel you are out of should be working harder to impress you. If the guy sending the note was hot, you wouldn’t care what they did or didn’t say. That’s the bottom line.

What’s truly bothering you is that you’re not hearing from the guys you want to hear from. That’s it. The rest is just your way or rationalizing why these men you perceive as schlubs are reaching out to you. The tone of the messages aren’t the issue, nor do these men appear to be lacking communication skills. These guys wrote messages that don’t appear to be cut and paste jobs. They mentioned something specific to you that demonstrated that they’re not just sending notes to anyone who looks at their profile.

Nobody is going to be bending over backwards to write you some Jane Austen-inspired salutation. Sorry, you’re just not that special or important. You, like pretty much everybody else who dates online, are nothing but a number. Welcome to our nightmare. Jump in, the water is warm. You’re getting the same messages that we all get.

I try to make it a point to reply to every email I get (within reason) and in doing so I’ve established some great friendships with people I don’t consider compatible with myself on a romantic level.

Ugh. You’re one of those people. The people who say that they answer all their messages “to be polite.” For future reference it’s actually more socially appropriate to just not respond. The only people who whine about not hearing back from the people they message are the ones who feel slighted and take the whole online dating process way too personally. In the future, don’t send a message back to people just to tell them you’re not interested. Nobody wants to hear it.

There’s just something egregiously disingenuous about someone who replies to all their messages. Like they somehow get a thrill out of rejecting people or maybe want someone to ask them why they don’t think they’re a match. There’s a bit of a rush that comes with turning people down. Maybe you’re not on OK Cupid to meet someone. Maybe you’re their to reject people.

I think you’re expectations are way too high for online dating. At this point, people are just exhausted and don’t feel like crafting unique message after unique message. People are less concerned with capitalization and punctuation. Take whatever opening you can get, even the messages that just say “Hi” and don’t analyze it. It’s just one message. Not everybody gives good email. Unless someone writes in gibberish, indicating a multitude of issues, give them a chance.

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Signs You’re Dating a Guy With No Options

Name: Scared
Comment: I am with this great boyfriend. He is a hardworking businessman, with a passion for fishing. We live 200 miles needy-man - Signs Your Being Needyapart. He cares for me and spends a lot on buying me stuff.

I met him online a couple of years ago, and we got close over the months. Problem was, I was with my ex. We became good friends, chatted a lot through the phone and through the net. He hinted me that he liked me but I did not accept him at that point because I was still with my ex.

We did meet up but just as friends. Eight months after, me and my ex were having problems so we broke off. A month later, he brought his folks to meet me and things began to look serious. We took turns to visit each other. I even got to know some of his friends.

Then another month later, he invited me to a fishing trip with his friends at the end of 6 months. I agreed and he bought the plane ticket for me. However he told me that the trip lasts a week, and we are going with a whole bunch of his guy friends. I will be the only girl there. What really worries me the most is that during the trip, we won’t be able to communicate through phones so I will not be able to contact people on land.

Recently he got the hint that I am feeling nervous about the whole thing. He tries to persuade me, even by saying that he is willing to meet my family before we take off.

His intentions seem sincere but am I being paranoid? Should I follow him on this trip? Please advice, thanks.
Age: 26
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

 

Yeesh.  Who the hell brings their girlfriend along on a fishing trip with the boys? That alone would make me question this guy.

To me it seems that this guy has trouble meeting and keeping women. That’s probably because he’s so needy. Between buying you gifts to blowing up a boys weekend by dragging his girlfriend along, this guy sounds like he’s profoundly needy and insecure. Let’s address the red flags one by one.

He lives 200 miles away - Did all the women in his vicinity suddenly fall into a sinkhole or evaporate? He’s broadening his search that far because he has to. Women in his area likely don’t want him.

He hung around waiting for you to break up with your boyfriend – This, too, screams, “I have no options!” Only the most desperate of people would tolerate being treated as a surrogate gal pal.

He buys you things -  Again, I question any man who feels he has to buy my affections or impress me with presents of expensive things.

What really worries me the most is that during the trip, we won’t be able to communicate through phones so I will not be able to contact people on land.

Where is he taking you that you can’t use a cell phone? Who the hell goes on a fishing trip without making sure they can get a call out should something go wrong? There’s something off here. This guy lives hundreds of miles away, you’ve hung out with him a handful of times and now he wants you to go away with him for a week with his friends? What the whating what?

This guy isn’t a sociopath. He’s just clingy and desperate for a girlfriend. If that’s your bag, go for it. Just understand that this guy will eventually become suffocating.

What’s truly troubling to me is that you see absolutely nothing wrong with the behavior that this guy exhibits other than the fact that he chose a location for a vacation that doesn’t have  a cell signal. Is that really what’s troubling you? Because this sounds like a made up concern. I have to wonder if you’re real question involves the exact issues I’ve raised in this post. Are you uncomfortable with how available he has made himself? Are you maybe picking up on how cloying he is?

If so, that would make more sense.

Thoughts?

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Are You Too Difficult To Date?

Name: Jennacouple2
Comment: I’ve been doing online dating for roughly 4 years (which seems like an eternity, actually). I’m 28, and I live in NYC (Manhattan).

While I’ve had a fairly typical online dating experience in some regards (I’ve gone on a very large number of terrible first dates), I’ve also met a number of guys that I’d actually like something long-term with. There have been six guys that I’ve dated for periods of ~3-4 months. Yet, I have not been able to convert a single one into an actual committed, exclusive relationship.

I know I’m doing something wrong, because several of these guys have subsequently entered into committed relationships (with other woman), one is now engaged, and one is now even married. So, I don’t think I’m picking commitment phobic guys.

My relationship pattern pretty much looks like this – at first, the guy plans dates (dinner, concerts, etc.) and asks me out in advance. After about a month, that largely stops, and he’d rather have me meet him and his friends at a bar. We’ll still have regular contact and do things during daytime hours (so, I know the relationship isn’t entirely sex focused), but the actual dates either largely or completely stop.

I’ve tried various things to remedy this – calling the guy out on it, suggesting dates on my own, etc. Nothing really seems to work. I confronted my last boyfriend about it on multiple occasions, which led to him breaking up with me and telling me I was putting too much pressure on him. He’s now seriously dating someone else, so I’m wondering what she did differently.

So, here’s my question. Given the age range of men I’m dating (27 – 33), is this typical behavior? Should I not expect to be eating romantic one-on-one dinners with these guys? Should I just “go with the flow” and meet him and his friends at a bar? I guess I’ve just heard from way too many people that if you accept this kind of behavior, the guy won’t take you seriously.

I should also add in that the guys I look to date are generally pretty attractive, successful guys around my age or within 5 years of my age. While I think I’m attractive, in shape, and successful myself, I’m well aware of the dating inbalance in NYC, and that the guys I’m dating definitely have a lot of other options.

Thanks,
Jenna
Age: 28
City: New York
State: NY

 

The first thing I want to point out is that sometimes it’s as simple as an issue of timing. When some of these guys dated you they weren’t ready for anything serious. Then they met someone else a little while later and either were sick of dating around or just felt they met someone with whom they felt comfortable. It isn’t always that there was something inherently wrong with you.

That being said, if one of your Exes came out and told you you were putting too much pressure on him, then that’s a pretty good indication that you were and that you need to lighten up a bit. Most guys won’t even bother with an explanation. They’ll offer some weak excuse and leave. For a man to express exactly why he’s dumping, he’d have to be pretty pushed to the limit, I think.

I’d also like to suggest that these relationship you had all sound like they pretty much dried up after a month or so. I appears as though the guy just kept you around until he found someone else. If after a month of dating, a guy considers hanging with him and his brahs at a bar a date, then the relationship is in trouble. Once? Okay. Not a problem. Regularly? He doesn’t want to be alone with you. They gave it some time, figured out you weren’t girlfriend material, but kept you on the roster while they explored their options. Or they saw that you were developing expectations, ones they weren’t ready to meet, and didn’t want to end the relationship entirely but did want to create some breathing room for themselves.

We’ll still have regular contact and do things during daytime hours (so, I know the relationship isn’t entirely sex focused)

Well, I wouldn’t go that far. My guess is arrangements like this are largely sex focused. The main reason why men date at all is for the consistent sex. The smart ones know they have to make a certain amount of effort in order to maintain it. Don’t automatically assume that none of these guys were just in it for the sex along, because I’m sure at least one or two were.

I’m going to suggest something kind of daring here, so brace yourself. It’s possible that you’re what many men consider B or C-list. Cute enough, fun enough,  but not exactly Varsity material if you catch my drift. You’re a pit stop of sorts on their way to Boyfriendville. The way to avoid this is by dating guys who don’t have as many options. I don’t know if this is what’s going on with you, but I know it happens. I read about it every day. At any given time we are on somebody’s C-list. If it happens more than a few of times, that’s a clue that you might be batting way out of your league and need to scale it back to what you can feasibly pull for a relationship. Just something to chew on.

The other suggestion is to do what you suggested and go with the flow for a bit longer than you do. You don’t have to  accept blatantly disrespectful treatment. But it wouldn’t hurt to bite your tongue here and there. That doesn’t make you weak or mean you’re compromising your integrity. You’re just going along to get along, and that’s a necessary skill when it comes to dating and relationships. Diplomacy is crucial, as is picking and choosing your battles. If there’s one thing that men take to, it’s simplicity. Which is not the same as being docile or submissive. It means not being difficult. If everything requires a conversation or explanation, then you’re difficult. Nobody wants to deal with people like that. Sometimes you just have to suck it up as you wait for things to progress. If that’s not something you can do, that’s your problem. You can’t constantly be shaking your head and wagging your finger at everything that strays from what you believe to be “real” relationship behavior, you know?

I guess I’ve just heard from way too many people that if you accept this kind of behavior, the guy won’t take you seriously.

By people, do you mean girlfriends? If so, take what they say with a grain of salt. We get an awful lot of ideas about how relationships should and shouldn’t progress from tall tales told to us by our gal pals. Here’s a secret: many of them lie or stretch the truth. They want you to think they have their man wrapped around their little finger. They don’t. They’re often white knuckling it, too, and keeping their mouths shut until it’s all systems go and they’re in Girlfriend territory. Stop listening to them.

While there are some men who are terrified of dealing with a woman who speaks her mind or has demand, most men aren’t. They know many of us have dealt with jerks and hear warped stories from our friends and so they cut us some slack. A few here and there will run screaming from a woman who speaks up, but most just hunker down and pray for daylight. That is, unless she just becomes so difficult to deal with and keep happy that they need to preserve their own sanity. That’s when they bail.

You can be easy going without being a doormat. Don’t let other people fill your head with false information. Asking for something and demanding it are two different things. As hard as it might be to do, I think you need to be a little less confrontational and see where that gets you.

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How To Get The People You Want To Date To View Your Profile & Write To You

 

1. Don’t roll out the Welcome mat – Opening your About Me section with some sort of greeting is a waste. You’re taking up the 2 seconds that you need to grab someone’s attention. Plus it just makes you sound like you’re trying too hard. Just get right to it.

2. Don’t start off explaining how uncomfortable/hard it is to talk about yourself – You’re not fooling anybody. This isn’t an eight grade book report where you have to meet a word minimum. Don’t take short cuts like this. Plus, it makes you sound negative.

3. Think keywords – This is the part of your profile where you should include as many descriptors as possible. I’ve mentioned how people use certain keywords when doing searches in order to better hone in on people with whom they’d feel compatible. Forget using words like outgoing and adventurous. Include specific stories and examples of activities that you think will give people a better idea of who you are. Do a search, view  a bunch of profiles and, from the ones that appeal to you, choose words those people use in their profile to describe themselves. That way you’ll be drawing people like them to you.

4. Lists are good - A lot of people find writing about themselves to be a chore. Take a little shortcut by coming up with a bullet point list of things that describe you, your hobbies and your interests. Don’t just say you love animals or enjoy the beach. Give specific examples. For example:

  • I recently downloaded the Debbie Downer sound clip to my phone. When something goes awry, I play it and it gives me a chuckle.
  • Me time sometimes includes binge watching House of Cards and Sherlock while enjoying a nicer Cabernet/cup of tea.
  • ASPCA commercials get me every time. I don’t have enough room in my closet for all the tote bags I’ve been given for making a donation.

5.  If you’re using OK Cupid, answer questions that revolve around topics most important to you – Search some profiles, find ones that you like and look through their questions. You can choose to view questions by categories. If you’re big on the outdoors or politics or the arts, look for questions to answer that focus on that topic. That’s going to get you included in searches for people with similar opinions and lifestyle interests.

6. Be available – A lot of people prefer to grab someone’s attention while they’re logged in. Log on to the site and keep the window open while you’re doing other things. Who cares if you always appear online. Unless someone is monitoring your profile, nobody is going to know.

7. Post an eye catching primary photo – Your face should take up the majority of that little thumbnail that pops up when someone does a search. Try to choose a photo where you’re wearing a bright color. That way your thumbnail will stand out and jump off the page.

8. Post no more than 3-5 pictures – I actually think 3 good shots are enough. Face, body, social shot. Done. The more pictures you have, the more reason you’re giving someone not to contact you. Make sure your photos are clear and that the lightening is ideal. No shot from the side or far away or wearing sunglasses.

9. Keep your busy schedule to yourself – Don’t mention how many hours you work or how hard it might be to schedule a date.

10. Fill out the music, movie and book interest section – This appears to be the main place that people find that thing to mention in their email to prove they read the full profile. Make it easier for them by giving specific examples of favorite books or groups or films. Make it interesting by posting lyrics or quotes from some of your favorites and let people guess. In order to find the answer, they’ll write to you.

11. Tell people that you check your inbox regularly and answer messages when you think there’s a possible match. Since so many people clog up these sites just to get attention, it’s refreshing to know that someone is an active participant in the process.

12. Do not bark any commands as to who should and shouldn’t contact you -  Leave the past in the past. You don’t want people thinking you have your guard up to high or are burnt out.

 

 

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Do Men Consider Women In Their 40′s Relationship Material?

Name: NBKEYBOARDACCESS

Comment: Moxie,

I’m a 40 yo single woman who has usually had a boyfriend, hence, I just started online dating about 5 months ago. Needless to say, it has been a disappointing and discouraging experience. I’ve never proactively dated, so I’m on the naive side. I do look 6-10 years younger,(and yes, I know every girl says this, but I’m happy to attach pictures to confirm)and am often asked out by men in their late 20′s to early 30′s. I recognize that these men have no interest in a relationship, but I’m always up for a fun night so I occasionally go. When I first started online dating the endless parade of dates was fun and exciting, but it got exhausting fast. 80% of them were unattractive or incompatible, and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand. Mind you, OKC was my site of choice.. so now I’m trying to limit myself to men who want more than a one night stand and to that end, will be upgrading from OKC to match.

My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material, or should I limit myself to 45+ yo men? As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.
Age: 40
City: Brooklyn
State: New York

and the other 20% simply wanted a one night stand.

I’m going to blown your mind right now. Ready? I will bet any amount of money that Mr. Relationship was part of that 20%. Here’s why I know that: because most women haven’t a clue as to how to determine whether a man is just looking to laid. Unless these men came out and told you they just wanted a one night stand, you have no evidence to back up your theory. All you have is years and years of crappy advice from your girlfriends. Something you’ll need to understand about men and dating now is that they prefer sex to happen sooner than later. If it doesn’t, or there’s too much challenge presented, these guys won’t think twice about Fading on you and looking elsewhere. Because they can. They have options that you don’t. So while these men in the 20% might have made a sexual comment or two or invited you back to their place, what I bet many were doing was testing the waters to see how you reacted. If you got uptight or defensive, they assigned you a high level of difficulty and mentally kicked you to the curb. I happen to think that the days of men judging women for having sex too soon are pretty much gone, save for the men here and there with the fragile egos.
My question to you is, what is the cutoff point? Do men in their late 30′s/early 40′s consider 40 year old women relationship material,

For the most part? No. Certainly not if they want children. But you’ll pursue them anyway, I’m sure because you’re convinced that you look young enough to be considered relationship material by them. That’s why you made it a point to mention your youthful appearance. You were setting up your defense. (And mind you, I wrote that part before I even read that last line.)

should I limit myself to 45+ yo men?

I don’t know if I would say that you should “limit” yourself to them. I think a better word is “focus.” You should direct your attention and efforts to meeting men in the 45+ range if you seek something committed and long term. If you seek a relationship, then you need to be looking at the Divorced Dad crowd and the guys in their mid/late forties to early fifties. Which isn’t a bad thing.

I don’t understand this whole thing about not wanting to date guys in their mid-forties. Yes, I know. You’re really active and fit and still dance like nobody’s watching, like when you were 25. You know what is the best thing about dating men 45 and older? They actually want you. Unlike those 38 year olds you’re hanging your hopes on who might date you for a few months until someone younger comes along. Because she will.

As far as I know, if a male doesn’t want children, your age is a less important number than where you fall on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness, ie you’re only as old as you look.

Nope. They pretty much still prefer younger women. The ones who are open to dating a woman of 40+ are in pretty high demand. If you want them, then be ready to go to the mattresses, because you will have stiff competition. Age trumps hotness, I’m afraid. Except with the younger guys. They just want to bang you for the story and experience.

I realize that this isn’t what you wanted to hear. But the fact is that you’ve had a string of boyfriends and nothing appears to have resulted in what you wanted. Or maybe it did and you’re just looking for a guy to date for a little while. I don’t know. What I know is that you’re now 40 and you’re doing what you can to find reasons why you can’t meet someone appropriate. It’s not OK Cupid’s fault. Welcome to dating at 40. Match isn’t going to be much different, especially if you try to get the guy in his thirties. This is what it’s like. You had 15+ years to find your Mr. Right. For whatever reason, none of those worked out in the way you wanted. Now you’re hoping that lightening will strike again.

The problem isn’t an algorithm or a website. You’re grappling with facing the reality that this is how dating is for you now. I’ve noticed that the women who return to the dating scene at some point in the last few years struggle the most. The dating landscape has changed and will continue to change change rapidly. It’s just..harder now. Especially for women our age. I’ve said this before: the 37-44 year old men in Manhattan and even Brooklyn aren’t looking for us. You’re going to have to branch out and start looking in Connecticut and New Jersey or even further. If you insist on local, then you have to channel your search and make yourself available to the 45-50 crowd. A lot of men 40-45 are still hanging on to the possibility of having children. Even if that pang to reproduce is faint, those guys are going to naturally seek out women they believe are of optimum child bearing age.

Dating isn’t like a vending machine. When the last Snickers bar is gone, the universe doesn’t magically put 10 more in your path. Your choice is to wait around for someone to come along and refill that option or select the Twizzler or Baby Ruth. Yeah, it’s not what you originally wanted. Someone came along before you and bought that Snickers before you could have a chance. That’s what it’s like to date at 40 in Manhattan or probably any other major city where there is an overage of single women to single men.

You can continue to pursue the late thirties to early forties guy. I’m not saying that getting one of them to commit is impossible. What you have to ask yourself is whether the frustration you will experience by holding out for them is worth your time. You also have to consider is whether or not you want to take those hits and run the risk of becoming less available and more impatient. There really is nothing more sad than listening to a woman in her mid-thirties and older complain about online dating and dating in general. The stench of bravado and remorse in her words is a pungent one.

 

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How to Avoid Looking Like a Creep On OKCupid (This Applies To Men AND Women)

I have been a huge advocate of the dating site OKCupid for some times now. I like the functionality, I like the questions and I like that it’s free (though I pay for it.) You’re not shooting off messages to a bunch of people who very well might not be paid members and therefore can’t respond. There’s very little deceptiveness behind the OKC business model, which is why I use them.

However, in the past few months I have found my patience with the members of that site growing thin. My frustration has ratcheted up a few notches since posting profiles in other nearby cities. That means that I’m dealing with three times the average online dating annoyances.

I want to do a quick run down of things that people do that, unbeknownst to them, make people feel uncomfortable or irritated.

1. Repeatedly viewing someone’s profile - If you don’t want to pay the membership fee for OKC, then create what the kids call a “stalker profile” so you can cruise anonymously. Making daily pit stops on someone’s profile – when you know that they can see you visited – makes you seem odd. Or weak. I so, so , SO wish OKC users had the ability to prevent someone from viewing their profile. Alas, they don’t. Consider how it would make you feel if you were walking to work and, every day, you saw the same person peeking around a corner at you. Weird, right? Yes, it’s weird. I’ll give someone a couple peeks. That’s normal. But to look at them every day or every other day for weeks straight? Creepy. Stop it. Also cease repeatedly viewing someone’s profile while you know they’re online. That’s just a way to get someone curious enough that they’ll message you. Either message them or don’t. Constantly looking at their profile while they’re online makes you look like a pest.

2. Admitting that you recognize someone from the offline world - Maybe you know them from a job or through friends or, you know, their blog. It’s never a good idea to open with, “Hey, I saw you on the subway last week. You got off at Union Square.” That is going to make people wonder if it’s just a random coincidence that you found them or if you’re stalking them. To speak more specifically, you will NEVER win points with me if you send me an email and say, “I love your blog.” Ever. Ever ever ever. The typical regular male reader of a dating blog usually falls in to one of two categories: the white knight or the PUA/Manosphere types. While there are a handful of guys that come here that I know genuinely come here for the discussion, a lot don’t. I will always err on the side of caution on that one.

3. Including your phone number or email address in your intro email – Sorry, but that reeks of desperation and social cluelessness.

4. Posting only photos of yourself taken by a cell phone or laptop – You’re a social recluse and have no friends.

5. Completely disregarding the user’s stated preferences - Trust me. If I wanted to date a 25 year old, I’d have set my desired age range to include 25 year olds. If I wanted to date women, I’d list myself as bisexual. If I wanted to date someone in Scarsdale, I wouldn’t have said in my “You should contact me it” section that I wanted to hear from people who live in the city or was looking for a city-minded guy. Pay attention to the clues, because they’re there. When people who fall not just outside someone’s stated preferences but well outside them contact you, they’re telling you one of two things. One, they didn’t read your profile. Two, they think they’re so god damn special and unique that you should make an exception for them. People have to remember that if they’re ignoring someone’s preferences, other people probably are too, causing that user to be barraged with a shit ton of useless, annoying messages. Change your username to SpamIAm, because that’s essentially what you are if you disregard someone’s preferred criteria.

6. Making inappropriate comments in an intro email - I once had a guy open his message to me by saying, “Good Morning, Horny SoandSo.” Mind you, there was no mention of sex in my profile, nor did I have the casual sex option checked off. He explained that he addressed me that way because of some of the questions I answered. So I cleared all of my questions out. Of course he had to email me again after doing that to tell me that that was probably a smart move. Again we have an instance of total and utter social cluelessness.While I put myself in the position to be approached that way by being so forth coming with my answers to those questions, that doesn’t mean it’s a good rule of thumb to be that brazen in your approach. Bottom line? It’s gross. If you’re smart and experienced, you know the best way to get what you want.

7. Jumping on to IM or emailing someone as soon as they log on - I know with OKC it used to be that, when someone logged on, a little dialog box would pop up alerting you to that. Give someone a few minutes before you try to contact them. Immediately trying to reach out  makes you look like you’ve been sitting online and waiting for them to appear. Le Creep.

8. Ignoring common signs that someone is trying to end a conversation - The main reason why I am hesitant to respond to folks who continuously view profile is that, once you respond to them, they won’t leave you alone. If someone’s conversation gets shorter and shorter, or they talk about how busy they are, or they actually sign off an email with “Have a good one!” they’re trying to leave the conversation. If they don’t return your questions with questions, they’re usually replying to be polite.

9. Picking fightsI was reading this article last week and was blown away by the blatant hostility of the men writing them. Obviously, some of these messages were part of larger conversations. There’s no doubt in my mind that some of these guys were somewhat provoked into being assholes. However, some of these messages are written with the intention of offending the woman so that she will respond. You know how, in grammar school, boys would tease the girls they like. This is the adult version of that. However, if you’re going to insist upon including hot button topics in your profile, learn to expect some people to try and debate you. If you can’t have a rational or mature dialogue about the subject, don’t include it in your profile. If you’re just going to trade insults, you’re no better than the person who picked the fight.

OKC used to offer members the ability to filter messages. That way they wouldn’t have to constantly respond to that little ding notification on their phone and learn that yet another person who in no way meets their explicitly stated preferences has emailed them. OKC got rid of that feature once Match.com bought them. The logic, I assume, is to drive people so batty with messages from people they don’t want to hear from that they’ll head on over to Match. I’m not going to slag on OKC for that decision, because that’s business and everybody needs to make a living. However, I want to plead to people who shoot off messages to people without reading profiles and to folks who think they’re some kind of unique case to stop and consider how soul-sucking it can be for someone to have to slog through messages from people that aren’t what they are looking for. Please. Just stop and think before you send that message.

Stop screwing with other people’s experience online. Just stop.

Post Script: I’m going to suggest something kinda daring. I wouldn’t even bother reading your OKC emails anymore. I am starting to think that the people who view your profile and don’t write are the only people you should consider contacting outside of the occasional unsolicited cold call message. I actually believe some people now consider viewing a profile the same as sending a message. It’s like relying on Caller ID to let someone know you called without leaving a message.

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Online Dating: What’s So Bad About Winks, Flirts & Favorites?

Name: Jessica
Comment: Hi:
I’ve been online dating for a while and went some dates already. Recently a guy favorited me and I sent him a wink back. Then we started talking via emails. So far we have exchanged 5 or 6 emails already over almost two weeks but he still doesn’t ask me out or give me his number. Usually I’m pretty sure he is not interested in me but everytime he wrote pretty long and it seems we have a lot of agreements. I can feel he is a nice guy and even one day he was busy he still sent me an email telling me he would write me back officially later since he was busy packing for his trip. he doesn’t have to do this. I am a Chinese girl and he stayed in China for three years. I am not sure if this is one reason that he thinks Chinese is more conservative and he doesn’t want to be rude. I don’t understand if he is not interested in me why he keeps writing, even today. I am so confused and already tired of this game. Am I a back burner for him? Why he even doesn’t want to see me in person? I don’t think it’s a big deal and based on my previous experience people usually meet only after 2 or 3 emails. Is he too shy? what should I do? I don’t want to give him up easily but I have a feeling he’s just not into me:(
Age: 29
City: Houston
State: TX

 

 

I know a lot of people find winking and favoriting to be lazy. This isn’t exactly a great example for why winking and rating are worthwhile ways to express interest. But they are. I will admit, though, that these methods are often used by people who know that the likelihood of a response from someone is slim. But then again, that’s online dating in a nutshell. People are tired of not hearing back from the matches that they message. That’s why so many people are resorting to winks or one liner emails that just include a greeting and that they liked your profile. It’s exhausting. Don’t think of it as someone being lazy. Think of it as that person being efficient.

He may have marked you as a favorite because he knew he was going away and wanted to be sure to somehow save your profile. That way, when he returned, he’d be able to locate your profile more easily and contact you. While I think winking and rating people are useful tools to express interest, marking someone as a favorite is more open to interpretation. That, of course, can lead to confusion. It’s not clear if they favorited you to be coy or as some kind of reminder or placeholder. I would message them anyway.

If someone does wink or rate you, don’t respond with a wink of your own. Take things to the next step by emailing them. Say something like, “You totally should have messaged me. I would have responded.” Please, please, please do not use that as a way to test a person’s interest or intentions. Writing those intro emails can sometimes be hard, especially if the person’s profile doesn’t really give you anything to go on. You have to be more flexible about this, folks.

OP, one of two thing sis going on with your guy:

1. He is not interested and has no intention of ever meeting up with you. He’s one of the many people who use online dating for some other reason other than the one that matters. He keeps writing because it is a fun distraction for him. It’s entertainment. He possibly even gets off on the fact that you persist in trying to stay in touch.

OR..

2. He’s extremely busy and can’t devote much time to you but wishes to do so once things calm down for him. That could be why he didn’t initially message you and just favorited you.

The only way you’re going to know is if he follows up after his trip and suggests that you two meet. Until then, all you can do is wait. I would file this one away for now and pursue other options. Also, next time someone makes it a point to mention an impending trip or work obligation/project, they’re usually trying to tell you that they’re too busy to talk. Take that as a hint and let them contact you when they’re less busy.

 

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The Dangers of The Faux-lationship

Name: Tom 
Comment: Hi,
I’m a gay guy, middle aged, I had taken myself off the dating market for several years due to depression issues,etc.  I finally got on a good antidepressant, moved back to my dream city and decided to engage in life.  I started online dating.  A guy from another city found my profile, said he was thinking of moving here and asked if I would have dinner with him.  I said okay.  We met, he worked for a major airline and was in town for the night.  He actually lived thousands of miles away but said he really wanted to move to my city.  It was one of those times when you meet someone and it feels like you’ve been struck by lightning, it was magic.  He said he felt the same way. Everything was great for almost two months. He visited a lot and we talked on the phone daily, he really injected himself into every aspect of my life.  He suddenly decided, without talking to his doctor, to double the amount of antidepressants he was taking. It totally changed his personality.  One night when we were on the phone, he had an ugly, biting remark in response to anything I said, I hung up on him. A few nights later, he became furious and started screaming at me over basically nothing.  He texted me a day later and said it was over.  He refused to speak to me for three months.  Though I mostly got over it, I needed emotional resolution.  In February, I sent him an email and to my surprise, he responded and said he missed me, also that he was off of the meds.  We started talking again.  I told him I thought he was one in a million and he said he felt the same way.  Being a hopeless romantic, I sent him flowers and said I wanted him back in my life.  He started calling me every day.  But it bugged me that we hadn’t talked about what had happened before. I tried bringing it up and he said, “oh, why dwell on the past.  What’s done is done, let’s move forward.”  We finally had a serious discussion and to his credit, he made me face reality, he can’t really give up his home, his career, his friends, etc, to move here.  There are a lot of logistical problems.  I can’t really move there either.  Moving where I currently live was my dream.  He said I would end up resenting him and that much is true.  We agreed to be friends and kept talking a couple of times a week, then more like once a week. I finally sent him a Dear John letter today telling him kindly but firmly that I didn’t think we should keep in touch because it’s emotionally confusing for me and I think he needs counseling because he won’t open up, never apologized for his actions, etc.  But I cried off and on all afternoon.  I don’t understand why I can’t get over it.  I feel like I met my soulmate and then got told, no, you can’t have him. I’ve tried dating other guys but it doesn’t feel the same.  He IS very, very good looking and we have great chemistry, but otherwise, there’s not much there.  Why can’t I move on and be happy?
Age: 50
City: Portland
State: OR

 

You can’t move on because you don’t want to move on. You’ve convinced yourself that everything this guy said and did was genuine and real. Sorry, it most likely wasn’t.

He probably knew all along he wasn’t going to move to your city. He was looking for a pit stop and he found one, and I have no doubt plenty of others. Typically when someone from hundreds of miles away contacts you on a dating site, they’re not looking for anything terribly substantive. I think you’re assuming that, because he flew to meet you and continued to email you and put in “effort,” that his interest must be sincere. You have to understand that if someone has the means to travel for weekend jaunts, they will. Also realize that trading emails takes very little energy or time. If they have the money, then spending it really isn’t that big of a deal. Gestures like these are not indicative of how interested they are.

You moved to your new dream city and you’re probably a bit lonely. You’re looking for a connection or some kind of companionship. This guy presented himself and so you jumped head first. Many of us have been there. Loneliness can encourage us to get involved in situations that ultimately aren’t good for us. Red flags were there, and like many of us do, you ignored them. Switching his meds without any advice from a doctor is reckless. This guy is a pilot? Jesus. Big. Red. Flag. Are you sure he’s even a pilot? I can’t imagine that someone with that kind of job would do that.

Whether this guy was speaking the truth about who he is and how he felt is irrelevant. It was fun for him for a time, then he pulled back. The reason? Who knows. You’ll probably never know. All you know is that this guy can’t give you what you want. You’re replaying everything over in your head trying to convince yourself that because he said or did XYZ, he must truly care or want you.  Do you know why? Because that is a hell of a lot easier to swallow than admitting to yourself that you were fooled or fell for a batch of lies.This is where the need for a back story comes into play. People come up with non-existent explanations and reasons why the object of their affection lost interest instead of just accepting that they were never all that interested in the first place.

Sadly, there are a lot of people out there who will say whatever will get them what they want. You’re thinking, “It must be real. He must feel what I feel. He said such and such and that must have meant he wanted to see me again.” You think you got close to something that had been so elusive for so long. That’s your loneliness talking. We all go through it.

Tom, people lie. People look out for themselves. These persons exist. He manufactured a speech to give to you to remove himself from the situation. He likely knew all along he’d be giving that speech.

When you choose to accept that this fantasy is over, then you’ll be able to move on. For now, find other things that can fill that void you feel. You want to feel acknowledged and significant. You want to feel important to someone. Do whatever you need to do without sabotaging or harming yourself to feel like you matter. Because you do. You do matter.

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Online Dating: How Much Rejection Is Normal?

Name: Maria
Age: 35
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Comment: Hi, I am wondering if what happens to me is “normal” in the dating world here in NYC.  I am 35, on OKC and I get asked out a lot.  I meet an average of 3 guys per week, which some would consider lucky.  I think I would feel lucky if all I wanted was to go to countless dates with men that 98% of the time I never hear back from.  Is this normal? Do other women experience what I take as rejection??

 

3 dates a week doesn’t sound abnormal for OK Cupid. It’s a free website. As many people have mentioned in previous threads, OKC attracts a number of time wasters. That site is heavily populated by folks not terribly interested in anything beyond attention or a casual relationship. Hence why you’re getting so much action. I’m going to guess that you’re a quantity over quality person. You go out with pretty much everyone who asks because you like feeling so in demand. OK Cupid is like a fun house mirror in that it provides a distorted view of our desirability and attractiveness. Hate to be the bearing of bad news, but let’s just say that that site isn’t known for attracting men who are terribly picky.

I highly doubt that the majority of men you’re meeting on OK Cupid are actually looking for a relationship.  Getting dates with OKC is beyond easy. Getting quality dates is much, much harder. Many of those guys are taking you out in the hopes of hooking up. When that doesn’t happen they just move on. That would explain a good portion of the rejection that you are experiencing.

The other contributing factor is probably that you’re disappointing these men somehow. Either your profile is too good and full of embellishments or..dun dun DUN! you don’t look like your photos.

While it’s not abnormal to have many one off first dates that lead no where, it is atypical to have that many not lead to a second date. So something is off. Whomever you present online is not translating offline. You should be getting more men following up if you’re having 3 dates a week. So, in addition to meeting a lot of one and doners,  it’s either an issue of inaccurate photos or you’re just not terrible interesting/engaging. That’s something that a lot of people don’t consider. Everybody thinks they “rock” first dates. Few people actually do. Every person I’ve ever known or heard of who was booking multiple online dates every week always, to me, seemed to have something “off” about them. Either they seemed burnt out on the process or over-anxious or completely desensitized to the process. I think 2 dates a week with two different people is pushing it. More than that and you’re just overloading your mental hard drive. People assume because they get so many dates or have so many people eager to commit to them that that actually means what they think it means. A lot of times it doesn’t. You’d be surprised what people will do and say just to get sex on the regs. Or at all.

I don’t know how to say this without some people feeling as though I am trying to crush their spirit. Dating in Manhattan or in any city where there is an overage of single women to single men is tough. Trying to date in Manhattan as a woman in her mid to late thirties and older is brutal. As harsh as this sounds, the odds are just against us. My suggestion to you, OP, as well as to all the other women in your age range and above is to branch out. Way out. Like Boston or Connecticut or Philadelphia. Or maybe even further. We are just not in demand here. I’m not saying that you should completely count out the men where you live. I’m suggesting that you widen the net.

I will also advise any woman over 35 that is looking for a relationship to rely more heavily on the paid dating sites. Use OK Cupid, as it’s a great way to get dates and get out. Who knows, you might strike gold. But if you really want something serious, OK Cupid is just not the place to go. You are up against it on that site, competing with a lot of women in the same boat.

As for the guys who struggle, all the whining and sad sackery has to stop. Get off the angry man forums. Many of you sound like the 98 pound weakling who just had sand kicked in his face at beach. If you want a certain type of woman, you need to up your game. That means dressing and sounding the part. You can say all you like how unfair it is that women don’t like nice stable guys but deep down you know that’s not true. They just don’t want you. It’s time for you to stop listening to all the other losers at love and break free from that pack. Maybe it would serve you well to look elsewhere, too. Either that or suck it up and accept that your $10 first date policy isn’t cutting it. Time to break open the wallet and pull yourself together. Congrats, you stay in shape or you’re pretty or you have a job. Whoopee. You’re hardly unique. If you want people to notice you or take you seriously you have to present yourself in a certain way.

If you’re surrounded by people who bring more to the table, and at any given time you probably are, then you need to either up your game in some way and/or go where people want what you can offer. If you aren’t willing to do either, then you need to accept the reality of your situation quickly and learn to adapt.

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Should He Let Go of His Desire To Have Kids?

Name: Brian
City: New York City
State: NY
Comment: My divorce became final a few months and I’d like to start dating again. Since I would like to have biological children I prefer to date women between who are early to mid thirties. I’m upfront about this in my OK Cupid profile but find I am not getting the results that I want. I mainly hear from women late thirties and older.  Many of them are divorced women with children of their own. I’d prefer to have my own children before becoming a parent to another person’s child. How do I increase my chances of meeting someone in my desired age range who also wants to have children?
Age: 43

 

I think you need to start by being more realistic. While 43 certainly isn’t old, a woman of 30-35 can easily find a man closer to her own age. The early thirties woman might casually date you. I’m not sure you’ll find many that are crazy about having kids with a guy who will be a first time Dad at 45 or even older. Also working against you is the fact that you’re newly divorced. A lot of women will hear that and be skeptical that you’re actually ready to date again or in a rush to knock them up. I would suggest not mentioning how recent your divorce is in your profile. If a woman asks, then you can say within the last year until you get to know her better. Then you can tell her the truth. If, in your profile, you reveal your intention of meeting someone with whom you’d like to have children, take that out as well. That makes you sound like you have a biological clock ticking very loudly, and that ain’t sexy. No woman likes to be thought of as just a baby making machine. Whenever I see a profile of a man in his forties who says he still wants children, I pass.  I question the judgment and perspective of someone 40+ and above who hasn’t let go of that particular expectation. That’s not realistic, and that’s a sign of other possible difficulties.

If having children is a priority for you then you really should be focusing on the women in their late thirties. Yes, I know, they’re in their late thirties. But Brian….you’re almost in your mid-forties. Time to face some hard reality. First, you are less attractive to many women 10 years younger than you. You just are.  Put you next to a 35 year old and a woman is probably going to choose the 35 year old. Regardless of how potent you think your sperm is, the fact still remains that you’re still getting up there.You might be extremely fit and active, but you’d still be 8-12 years older than the women you wish to date. They don’t have to date someone your age. It’s possible that your desire to have children will go unfulfilled. Especially if you cut off women “of a certain age” because you insist upon dating younger. Blah blah blah biological imperative. I can hear some of the male commenters now.

I think you’d have a much better chance of having your own children if you broadened your horizons a bit. As we’ve said before, the people who are contacting you online are the ones looking for someone like you. Don’t fritter away your time and energy by chasing a dream because you still feel you deserve or are entitled to something else. That’s how people get burnt out on online dating.

There just comes a point in everybody’s life when they have to accept that certain goals or wishes are out of their reach.  And some people are just out of our league. They just are. As brutal as this might sound, men and women in their late thirties and older need to stop looking for the needle in the haystack and start getting real about their options. Marriage and kids  might not happen. You might not get that bright and shiny new car relationship. There might be a lot of mileage or a few dents. That just comes with the  territory as we grow older. Banging your head against the wall and rejecting people for not being exactly what you want isn’t going to get you closer to your goal. The reality is that you’re probably a little banged up, too. You can’t date for as long as we have and not be.

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