Online Dating & Income – How Much Do You Reveal?

I woke up to an email from a friend on Facebook.

“I just got an email from a  woman on Match who asked if the lack of a stated income on my profile meant I was unemployed. Should I include my income?”

Let’s think about this from a search perspective. When someone is choosing criteria that they prefer in a mate, are many people selecting a specific income?I would guess that there’s a decent amount of people who do. Hence, it might be a good idea to include a salary just because you want to come up in as many search types as possible so that you can drive traffic to your ad. The downside, of course, is attracting people who only wish to date people who fall within a certain income bracket. My guess is that if you work in a field that is known for it’s high salary then you’re used to being targeted by such people and can sniff them out pretty quickly. I’d suggest planning a low key date at a modestly priced bar. If your date tries to upgrade then you know that they’re more drawn to you for your wallet than your personality.

As I’ve said before, people who make high salaries aren’t opposed to spending money. They know that that’s all part of the Dating Game. They don’t mind sharing the wealth as long as their date appears to appreciate it. They don’t have to have someone match their spending habits on dates to do that. A simple offer to pay for the cab or buy a round of drinks will suffice. It’s not about the amount, it’s about the gesture of appreciation.

Now, what if you want to select “Prefer not to say?” Personally, I think that’s the best way to go. I don’t like the idea of people feeling obligated to reveal sensitive information like salary range to strangers. This would never come up in regular conversation if you met someone at a bar or party.Either choose that option or undercut your salary a bit. I always suggest to clients that they don’t go into great detail about what they do for a living. Don’t give it all away upfront. If you work in the corporate world select Executive/Management as a career field whenever you can.

In my example profile that I use when doing profile reviews, I identify as financially self-sufficient as opposed to financially independent. I place more importance on whether or not someone can take care and support themselves than how much they make. I also prefer to date someone who lives a similar lifestyle to mine, meaning they live on their own and, while maybe don’t make enough to travel to Europe on a regular basis, can still afford to go out and enjoy certain activities and is responsible enough to maintain a savings.

The phrase “financially independent” says, to me, “I don’t need you. I got this.” That’s not a message you want to send to potential partners. You want people to think you need them to some degree. “Financially self-sufficient” says, to me, “I’m responsible.” That’s what sufficiency is about – being able to take care of yourself. I often advise women not to make mention of finances or careers in their profiles. For one, they make themselves targets to the OKCupid/Match.com Hobos looking for a place to rest their weary heads. Yes, that’s a thing. The other reason is that men just don’t care what a woman makes or what she does for a living as much as women care about the same things. Men want women to use their more “feminine” qualities to attract men. Most men focus on personality traits and characteristics than on financial or professional ones.

On a somewhat related topic, can we all talk key words for a second? A great way to draw the right people to your profile is to include specific key words. If you’re super health conscious, then make sure to use words like healthy, diet and exercise. Go even more specific and use words like organic and yoga. If you like being outdoors, include words like nature, hikes, environment, sunset, mountains, etc. Looking for a nerd? Think of the various descriptors and hobbies you think someone like that might identify with and put them in your profile. I’ve found the, more and more, people are honing their searches by using the key word search option.

So now I’ll turn it over to you:

Do you complete the income question on your profile? Why or why not? Have you encountered people who have seemed judgmental based on your admitted salary? Have you been targeted by people who appear to primarily seek people in your income bracket? If so, how did you know and how did you handle it?

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Are You Afraid to Lose (Or Reveal) Your True Yourself In Your Relationship?

Name: material marriage
State: IL
Age: 29
Comment: I’m currently in a committed relationship with someone I see a future with. We’ve both discussed marriage and are on the same page regarding spending, children, etc. My questions is: should we combine our finances before a solid marriage is official?

I’m personally uncomfortable with this idea and expressed that very clearly to him. He was extremely hurt and felt it meant I didn’t have faith in us working out at some point. He makes more than me and doesn’t need the cash and neither of us are in debt nor outrageous spenders. He makes it clear that what’s his is ours. Am I being selfish?

 

Why are you uncomfortable with the idea? I’m not saying that I don’t share your concerns. I do.I get it.  With how volatile everything is with the economy and unemployment and the like, I absolutely understand your hesitation.

Is your ambivalence really about joining finances…or are you using finances to maintain a sense of independence in your relationship?

I think a very big fear for women, other than the real possibility that the marriage might not work out, is that they will lose themselves and their identities should they marry or settle down with someone else in some way. We’ve spent so long developing our careers and gotten so used to calling our own shots that involving someone else unsettles us. Is it that we fear we’re giving in to a tradition we’ve been told (and have told ourselves) is antiquated and unnecessary? Is it that we feel like traitors in some way? Or is it something more…like a fear of making ourselves totally vulnerable?

I’m going on a tangent here.

In general, I’m seeing and hearing about an overall terror at the idea of letting men in at all.

There was a letter a few weeks ago from a woman who had just completed her Masters Degree and was unemployed. She said she stopped dating the men she used to date, the successful ones, and began to date men who she thought would expect less from her. Let’s switch out “long term unemployed” from her story and replace it with “long term single.” It seems like the longer a woman stays single, the more uncomfortable she becomes dating a man who is ready and available. She becomes afraid of revealing her dating history to the man. So, in order to combat the inevitable anxiety over answering that question, she goes for men that she believes will expect “less” from her. Or maybe she has had a few relationships in the recent past, but they were all with men who ended up hurting or disappointing them. Whatever her history is, she doesn’t want the man she meets to know. So she goes for men she knows, ultimately, won’t care enough about her to ask or want to know.  These women have started to identify, consciously or unconsciously, with men they perceive as “unavailable” or “damaged.” In some cases the woman knows  why she’s identifying with these particular men. But others are completely unaware of what they’re doing, falling in to the same pattern over and over again, reaping the exact same results.

Making things even more confusing are all the mixed messages out there. The posturing disguised as feminism, especially in regards to our sexual choices. The cases for settling or not settling. How we can have it all with sacrificing anything. The poisoning of men against women and women against men. Is it really any wonder that so many women are afraid or at least really, really confused? We don’t know who we’re “supposed” to be.It feels like many women are trying to live up to other women’s expectations instead of their own.

/end tangent

OP, I don’t think you’re “wrong” for not wanting to join your finances. In theory, it sounds like a very rational decision. What you have to figure out is if that choice is based on anything that goes beyond financial security or stability. Marriage is, among other things, a merger of assets. It is a financial transaction of sorts. If you wanted to invest in a company, would you tell the CEO that you’d be happy to work for the company, but not invest any of your own money? Of course not. This is a big reason why so many people are not getting married but rather choosing to live together and opting for domestic partnerships. They’re still a bond and a commitment, but the finances play a much smaller role.

If you’re not willing to merge finances in some way then – in my opinion – you’re not ready for marriage. Which is okay. It’s okay to not want to be married. Who can blame you? Marriage is a Big Deal. Capital B, capital D. It doesn’t mean you don’t love your boyfriend, nor does it mean you’re not willing or capable of committing to him. But in order to survive, you and your boyfriend need to discuss if you’re on the same page in terms of values. Is marriage really the only viable and acceptable option in order for both of you to be happy?

Start with determining why you’re afraid to join financial forces. Then explain your concerns to your boyfriend and have an honest discussion about marriage and commitment and what those things mean to the both of you. Then see if you two can find common ground and go from there.

 

 

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How Important Is a College Degree?

I wouldn’t date any woman who didn’t have at least a bachelors degree. I don’t care if they are unemployed or not. But if you date a woman with an associates or no degree that’s a sign they are lazy and unmotivated. – Peter

 

Just because a woman only has an associate’s degree does not necessarily mean that she is lazy or unmotivated. It could simply mean that she came from a poor family that couldn’t afford to pay for any of her college. There are plenty of hard-working intelligent women who work hard at their jobs and don’t spend their free time at bars or partying. An ex-girlfriend of mine was a legal secretary and only had an associate’s degree. However, she was making decent money and good at what she did. She eventually did get her bachelor’s degree in her late-30s while taking night school. She was anything but lazy. If you are going to assume that anyone without a bachelor’s degree is lazy, why not take this a step further and make the assumption that someone with a bachelor’s degree in a relatively “easy” or less-demanding discipline, such as communications, is also lazy? – Kurt

 

How about I shouldn’t date anyone w/o a masters degree since have a masters. I should assume bachelors degrees are lazy too! Thanks for the idea Kurt. And your ex gf is a loser btw, if she was fired from her legal sec job what are her options in life?? Work as a cashier? Great backup plan. The unemployment rate is far higher w/o a degree, this is 2011 not 1981…if you are going to the workforce you better be prepared and your ex is obviously not interested in being prepped for work. She’s prepped for getting some lame ass high school type job while Mr Right steps in and gives her all she needs. Total lazy bozo! – Peter

 

A while back, I was reading an article written by an entrepreneur. The piece was about how, in some cases, street smarts and drive are just as good if not better than a college education. The author of the essay is a business owner who never went to college. It’s not clear if they started school and left or just never went at all. In any case, the story rubbed me the wrong way. Namely because the writer launch a few gently jabs here and there at those with Ivy MBA’s.

Listen. You didn’t go to college. That’s cool. Maybe money was an issue. Maybe you just didn’t think it was for you. Whatever the reason, it doesn’t automatically make someone lazy or stupid. However…people don’t just get accepted in to Ivy League schools or MBA programs or Law School out of luck. That takes a tremendous amount of discipline and drive and commitment and sacrifice. So, howsabout we show a tad more respect for the way they applied themselves and the work and effort they made to stay in those schools instead of letting  a huge, gaping chip on our shoulder speak for us, hmm?

If I were hiring for a position and I had two candidates to choose from, and one was a college graduate fresh out of school and one was a “successful” entrepreneur with no college background, I’d choose the person with the degree. Want to know why? Because the college experience isn’t just about book smarts. It’s also about being exposed to other ways of thinking, other cultures and other lifestyles. In short, it’s about being well rounded. For someone to get in to any school and to stay there requires discipline and hard work. At least with a college degree you can back up said experience with transcripts and grades. Hard evidence of the work performed. You’ll rarely see an entrepreneur turn over their financials or books. You’ll just hear them say how successful they are or will point to their media mentions. Well, unless I can get a copy of your tax returns, it’s just empty words to me. Business is about making money. It’s not about how much press you get or your Twitter Klout score. If the only people talking about you are people with a vested interest in your business, and there’s little word of mouth marketing on your actual knowledge or skills, I question just how “successful” an entrepreneur/business really is.

/end rant.

Obviously, I value education. I’m the daughter of a teacher, from a family of teachers. The importance of education has been drummed in to my brain since I was a wee lass. So, of course, I consider education – or the value of education – a desirable quality in a partner. At the very least, we have to share a common belief that education is important.

I tend to agree with Peter that if someone is going to go for an Associates degree, they might as well go for their Bachelor’s. Every time I hear Matt Damon say he’s just a credit or so shy of his degree from Harvard, I wince just a tiny bit. Dude…Harvard. Oscar Schmoscar. Finish your degree.

Now, would I turn someone down if they didn’t have a degree? No. But they’d have to demonstrate to me that they don’t have some myopic or small minded world view. That, to me, is more important than their earning potential.

How about you? Would you date someone who didn’t have a college degree of a Bachelor’s or higher? Why or why not?

 

Would You Date Someone Who Didn't Have a College Degree?

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So…What Do You Do?

I was reading an article a while ago and the interviewer asked the subjects if they had ever been discriminated against because of their chosen professions.

One man, an actor, expressed frustration at how some women disregard him because of that choice.

To me, it’s important that the person I date respect what I do for a living. I’ve had guys ask questions that made it clear they thought what I did was frivolous. As long as I’m not relying on you to support me and it makes me happy and therefore a better and more stable partner, it shouldn’t really matter what I do.

I’ll date an actor. A working actor. I don’t care if its voice overs or off broadway or summer stock. He doesn’t have to be a “famous” actor. But he has to be working. Some guy at 35 years old who calls himself an actor when he earns most of his income either bartending, waiting tables or – worse – parental support while he goes on audition after audition but never books jobs  is just someone refusing to grow up.

The issue isn’t the money. It’s the all around emotional stability. A woman says she’s an actor and she’s usually labeled a drama queen or high maintenance. Well, it works both ways. Artists of any type are often considered “moody” or “dark.” And rightly so. That is the concern for me. It’s not how much they earn. It’s the unpredictability involved with dating someone who, in order to be successful, has to be extremely committed, passionate and emotionally raw. I wouldn’t NOT date someone just because he said he’s an actor or writer, etc.  I would date him, but pay close attention to his behavior and moods. If he shows signs of being erratic, disorganized, melodramatic, emotionally withholding or unavailable or reclusive, that’s when I’d disengage.

But what if a woman or man did decide  to not date someone pursuing a career as a creative type because there wasn’t enough financially stability associated with that chosen field? Is that really a bad thing?

In the past, I don’t think men were as concerned with what a woman did for a living as long as she supported herself. I don’t know of that’s the case any more.  Women appear to be picking up that slack. More and more I hear stories of women supporting their men while the guy earns a modest living, if any at all. As money becomes tighter and tighter, and the cost of living sky rockets, we’re just not as willing to risk the possible financial (and emotional) volatility.

Another issue that arises, one that has nothing to do with how much they earn, is how many hours they work. Say doctor, lawyer or even entrepreneur and you’re possibly considered high risk because those fields are known for their schedules and commitment levels. I always advise people to avoid the “What Do You Do?” question when they go speeddating. Save that for the follow up conversations. Stick to questions that help you determine if you have common interests or values. (i.e. What is your typical weekend like? How do you relax? If you could travel anywhere in the world where would it be? If you could have lunch with anyone, living or dead, who would it be and why?)

Then there’s the status seekers who think their ability to date someone in a certain field is a statement of their worth. It provides social proof. Some women trip over themselves to brag about dating a doctor or lawyer. There are men that think they’re “cool” for dating a dancer or stripper. Hate to break it to ya, kids, but this is Manhattan. Dating a lawyer or a dancer isn’t exactly hard to do. So if you’re going to brag about it, make sure your lawyer or dancer is either extremely rich or objectively hot. Anything else just makes you look like you’re trying too hard to impress people.

Some people will even intentionally date someone who is professionally unestablished. It gives them an air of superiority. That makes it easier to own or control the person they’re dating.

 

What about you? Does what someone does for a living raise any red flags? If so, what are they? Would you give them a chance or would you immediately cross them off your list as potential mates?


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