Has Hanging Out Replaced Actual Dating?

Name: Christinebaddate

Comment: My question is: at what point should you become a top priority in the guy you’re dating’s life?

I’ve been seeing this guy for about 2 months. We met through okcupid. He’s 28, and I’m 26. Our first 3 dates were very nice – dinner followed by drinks at a bar. For our fourth date, he invited me to a party his friend was having. So, I got to meet a bunch of his friends (I think it went well). However, the next few times we met up were either late at night with his friends, or me meeting him after he’d already hung out with his friends. I have tried to be flexible about this, because he’s been flexible with me to an extent (there were a few times he wanted to meet up and I couldn’t because of work or prior commitments with my own friends, but I suggested alternative days, which he agreed to).

Last Friday night, he texted me around 8pm telling me he was going to dinner with his friends, and would be in touch later about when we could get together. I already had plans, so I told him I couldn’t do tonight but how about Saturday. He said that was fine. But Saturday, his idea of plans was to meet me at a bar after he (again) had dinner with his friends.

I agreed to meet him, and basically just told him that this arrangement wasn’t working for me. I said I wanted to get to know him better, and that that wasn’t going to happen if we were always meeting late at night or with his friends. He seemed to genuinely agree with me and apologized profusely. He chalked it up to his being “very immature”, and basically told me that it’s difficult for him to make me a priority over his guy friends whom he’s known for 10 years (since college), while he’s known me for only 2 months. He also mentioned how a lot of his guy friends are starting to get married etc and that he finds that scary, but that he understands it’s just a natural progression and that he probably needs to grow up and behave differently, and that he does like me a lot.

I asked if he’d be able to change his behavior, since I didn’t see a point in continuing this if not, and he said he wasn’t sure, and asked if he could think about it. I said “sure” (which seemed to surprise him – maybe he was expecting me to freak out or yell at him), and then suggested we leave and he could let me know.

So, we went our separate ways that night, and I really wasn’t sure whether I’d ever hear from him again. 2 days later, he texted me asking if I’d like to have dinner with him on Saturday at 8pm at a very nice restaurant. He didn’t directly address our prior conversation, but I was obviously thrilled, and took the dinner suggestion plus the early time as a sign that he did want to try with me.

Then, incredibly, on Saturday morning, he cancelled on me. He told me that he was unaware that three of his good college friends were in town on Saturday, and all of his friends had plans to meet up and that he didn’t want to miss this. He said we’d just move the dinner to another night. I said fine and have fun.

So, now I’m sitting here wondering what I should do. Do I just end it? I feel like with the Saturday invitation he took a step forward, only to immediately take 2 steps back with the cancellation. Or should I continue to see him hoping he becomes more attached and wants to spend more time with me?

Am I unreasonable to expect him to make me a priority after 2 months of dating? He does have a large group of friends that he seems very close with.

Or is he just not that interested? I don’t think he is seeing anyone else (based on his availability to see me on both Friday and Saturday sometimes).

If he’s not that interested, is there anything I can do to get him interested in me again?
Age: 25
City: New York
State: NY

 

I followed up with the OP and asked whether or not she was sleeping with this guy. Here’s her answer:

I went through every date in my head: We did sleep together on every date except the first and sixth dates (first because it was the first, and sixth because we were both way too drunk).

Before I get into my answer to this letter, let’s address the whole “I didn’t sleep with him on the first date because it was the first date, but I TOTALLY boned him on the second date” thing. If you’re going to wait to have sex because that’s what you’re comfortable with and you want to get to know someone, then actually wait. Sleeping with a guy on the second date just because it’s not the first date achieves absolutely nothing other than letting the guy know you follow a bunch of arbitrary, stupid rules. Any regard or respect you think you gained by waiting ONE WHOLE DATE exists only in your head. Guys play along because nine times out of ten the woman who says she doesn’t have sex on the first date usually puts out on the second date. It’s childish and immature and is a red flag (albeit one they overlook) to a man.

It sounds like you want him to be more flexible while at the same time not being terribly flexible yourself. When you don’t cancel plans due to work or commitments to friends, it’s somehow acceptable. But when he does it, he’s wrong.

He pre-emptively admitted that he’s immature and feeling pressured to settle down because all of his friends are getting married, etc. It’s a ruse. He told you that to get you to back down a bit. He was just beating you to the inevitable punch. He knew where you were going with this, and has probably even heard the same complaints from other women, so he decided to throw himself down on the sword. He was telling you, in a nice way, that he’s taken you out a handful of times and you need to chill and that his friends mean more to him than you do at this point.

He took you out on four “real” dates. He’s done with that. You’re not someone for whom he’s going to rearrange his life. If you want to end it, do it. He’s anticipating that. He’s going to continue doing what he wants because he’s not invested in whether you stick around. He won’t cut you loose because he’s not going to give up the consistent sex. He might even miss you, but he’s not going to fight to keep you.

Am I unreasonable to expect him to make me a priority after 2 months of dating?

Nice try. You’ve had all of 6 to 8 dates with him. You’re saying you’ve been dating for about two months because framing it in those terms lends credibility to your argument. In reality, it’s been a handful of dates. No, it’s not reasonable to expect to be a top priority to a man you’ve dated 6 or 7 times. At best you’ve spent all of 36-48 hours together with him. You and he barely know each other, regardless of how close you think you and he have become.

This is how dating is for many people now. There is a lot of ambiguous “hanging out” with groups and casual plans. A lot of men are just in no rush to commit. They’re not locking themselves into anything too quickly because a) they don’t want to and b) they don’t have to. So if you want to see if this has potential, you’re going to have to suck it up for a bit longer.  If your goal is to “get to know him” you can achieve that regardless of how the time together is spent. That’s an excuse you’re using to try and get him to spend more alone time with you.  I’d be far more suspicious of a man who was eager to commit and readily available right away than one who dragged his feet a bit.

Share

If They’re Out of Your League, They’re Up To No Good

Name: Sarah
City: Austin
State: Texas
Comment: In my mind, I know the answer to my question, but in my heart – I guess I need to hear it from other people.

I met a man back in December – he pursued hanging out with me – just fun, going out stuff, not dates. This man, on paper, seemed like an ideal fit for me – well-educated, good/high profile job, interesting, attractive and was more on my “level” than many of the other men I had been meeting recently. I’ve had difficulty finding someone that isn’t intimidated by my career or me. I researched him online and got the impression that he might be married. So I asked him – he came clean and indicated that he was separated, but still in the same house, but was going to move out & start divorce proceedings. Since it had been a long-term marriage (more than 15 years) and there were two kids – I was wary. I basically said we’d have to cool it until he really moved out & I could see that he was being honest about proceeding with a divorce. He did move out shortly thereafter and we resumed talking and dating. During the course of all of this, he would constantly send me texts – you’re awesome! and give me affirmations of his interest – I think about you all the time, I miss you when you’re not around, I feel like we have such a unique situation, etc. BUT he would also say – i’m all messed up in my head, I don’t really know what I’m looking for, etc. Again – I expressed my concern – saying that I wondered if he thought I was so awesome or if it felt so special because what he was coming from had felt so wrong for such a long time. So I tried to protect myself…but it’s hard when you DO feel a connection and you DO feel like this could be someone for the long-term and they are also expressing that. Then after about 2 months he started to pull away. Saying that he felt guilty about not spending more time with his kids and that he really needed to get busy and finalize things and clear up his personal situation. MY understanding from our conversation was that we were going to keep it casual, still see each other but try to “pump the brakes” so to speak. However, it’s now been a week and I haven’t seen him and I’ve only had one text saying hello/hope you are having a nice weekend. I’m confused – how does he go from thinking I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread (or at least expressing those feelings) to just no contact, no meeting? I was REALLY ok with taking a step back & being more casual for a little while to see if we truly had a connection but I didn’t expect it to just disintegrate completely. Do I just relax, not contact him & let him contact me? Or do I push for resolution and ask him to explain what is going on? Give up entirely?
Age: 41

 

I’ve had difficulty finding someone that isn’t intimidated by my career or me.

Let’s address this point first. This? This is in your head. No confident and secure man is intimidated by a woman, for any reason. Stop telling yourself this to make yourself feel better. Either you’re drawn to men with issues or there is something unlikeable about you. Those are the only to options to explain this phenomenon.

This man, on paper, seemed like an ideal fit for me – well-educated, good/high profile job, interesting, attractive and was more on my “level” than many of the other men I had been meeting recently.

If this guy was atypical for what you generally meet, that likely means that something about his interest was disingenuous somehow. Sorry, but it does.  The fact that he didn’t even tell you he was married, knowing how the internet works and how common it is to Google someone, means he didn’t care enough to tell you about his status. He wasn’t concerned if you found out. Why? Because he didn’t actually care, period. That was the second red flag that this guy was going to fade. The first was that this dream man appeared in your life at all.

I get the desire to meet someone with a similar intellect or life experience. But the reality is that if we struggle to find that well educated and polished needle in a hay stack, then we should question when one falls in our lap rather effortlessly. I’m choosing to ignore the whole “on my level” thing. Holding out for that guy hasn’t served you well so far. You’re not going to readjust your expectations or self-perception until you get tired of the disappointment and frustration.

This guy was looking to get laid and likely never expected to stay involved with you in any way once that happened. He’s investing time by sending texts. That’s all part of the maintenance involved with cultivating a roster of options. He’s dipping his toe pack in the pool in order to see what is out there before he finally makes the move and leaves his marriage. He doesn’t want to let go of one branch without making sure there will be others to grasp.

I’m confused – how does he go from thinking I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread (or at least expressing those feelings) to just no contact, no meeting?

Easy peasy. He never thought you were the greatest thing since sliced bread in the first place. It was an act. Remember what I said about guys up to no good who pile it on are being disingenuous? This is a perfect example.

His reason for pulling back is that he senses you’re looking for a relationship and that’s not something he can offer. The stuff about his kids and needing to get his head straight, while I’m sure true to some degree, are not why he’s fading. This guy isn’t interested in you in the way you are interested in him. Let it go.

Share

The Greatest Dating Lies Ever Told

Name: WHY THEY SAY THEY WILL CALL AND DON’T
State: NY
Age: 45
Comment: QUESTION FOR MEN:  WHY DO MEN SAY THEY WILL GIVE YOU A CALL WHEN THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF DOING SO? Why not just say it was nice to meet you and then just run away and get out of there?  Woman don’t like to be misled and maybe they thought the date did work out to some extent. Sometimes a 2nd date is needed, or third to decide honestly, if he wants to see her again.  Men shouldn’t be sooo quick to pull away b/c they might have a good thing/person but just not know it yet b/c it takes time to get to know someone before they open up.

 

I agree that people – men and women – cut and run far too quickly. I think women are more likely to give a guy a second date to feel him and the possible attraction out.

However, I don’t think someone saying “I’ll call you” is always a case of them misleading the other person.  I think the times people say “I’ll call you” and aren’t 100% confident that they will call fall in to three categories:

1. They sense the man/woman wants to hear it or is somehow prolonging the good bye. It’s a way to get out of the situation without any further discomfort.

2. They’re on the fence and think there’s a possibility they might call. Then, once they have some distance and do a little post-date analysis, they decide that they don’t wish to pursue anything more.

3. They had sex with the man/woman and want to present themselves as honorable when they aren’t.

The “I’ll Call You” line is not the only lie that men and women tell in order to walk away gracefully or without blame. Here are a few others:

“We can do that next time.” - I’d guess that, in most but not necessarily all cases, they know there will never be a “next time.” Use of “next time” is a great way to convince your date that you’re really interested. That way they will be more pliable and less on guard. I don’t trust the Next Timers. Know how I’d know when there was going to be a next time? When there was a next time.

“I didn’t get your text/email.” or “I replied to your text/email!” -While there is always a chance that the internetz or cell phone ate your message, more than likely your message was received and they ignored it. Especially if the message contained any kind of pointed question or tone.

“Had a major work/family/medical emergency. Can we reschedule?” - Again, it’s entirely possible that Great Aunt Gemma passed away or their father had a heart attack. But is it likely? No. An excuse like this is perfect because it’s not like someone is going to challenge it. I should qualify this by saying that if this excuse comes from someone you haven’t met yet or been out with once or twice, it’s more likely that this is a lie. Translation: Something better came up, and since I don’t know you well/haven’t met you, I have no idea if meeting you will make up for turning down this other offer.”

“I’m not looking for a relationship right now.” - This isn’t so much a full on lie as it is a half truth. What they mean is,  “I’m not looking for a relationship with you.” Not to be confused with, “I need more time” or “I’m enjoying where things are going and getting to know you, but not sure if I’m ready for a commitment.”

“I’m not sleeping with anyone else.” - People tell us this because that’s what we think the other person wants to hear. We also say that so that we don’t compromise our chances of getting laid or going bareback. If there is no expressed exclusivity, there’s a really good chance that they are, in fact, sleeping with someone else. Either that or they don’t wish for that option to be off the table. If they wanted to sleep with only you, they’d commit to you.

“I’m too busy with work/school/my book club to date/have a relationship.” - Their job is not the reason they aren’t in a relationship. More often than not, that’s an excuse. What that really means is, “I don’t wish to give up whatever free time I have to someone else. I like my freedom.” Or it means, “I’ve been burnt and too afraid to get back out there.”

“I want to see you but I’m really busy.” – Eh. Usually “too busy” means “not interested.” It’s a way to keep you on the hook because either they don’t have the guts to dump you or want to keep you around for a Break In Case of Emergency Lay.

“I’m happy being single.” – Okay. This one might be a smidge controversial. I do believe that many people are happy being single. It’s the people who go out of their way to announce how happy they are being single that I question.

“I’m single by choice.” - Adorbs. But no. While some people might be single by choice and mean it, the people who announce it are just justifying why, after Lord knows how many dates, nothing has stuck.

“My girl/guy/relationship is different” or other variations of that statement. - Mmmm. No. You choose to believe that because that somehow makes YOU sound more desirable or impressive or that something about you made them alter  typical (read: unattractive) behavior. In actuality, you’re not different. Either your guy or girl didn’t actually make a specific change for you and you just think they did or your guy or girl just tolerates your crap because they had few to no options.

“We waited X dates to sleep together.” – I’ll call Bravo Sierra on at least half of these cases. Some men will decrease the number of dates they waited so they can impress their guy friends. Some women will increase the number of dates so their friends don’t judge them or so they can feel superior. Lame on both counts.

“We met through friends.” – Some, sure. But the “we met through friends” line is also common amongst people who met online but don’t want anyone to know they had to go “slumming” to find a mate.

“I’d like to be friends.” - When a guy says it, I think what he really means is, “Please don’t hate me.” He doesn’t want a woman out there with a grudge or negative impression of him. He might very well be sincere in expressing his guilt or in his apology. But he doe4sn’t really want to be friends. He doesn’t want to hang out or keep in touch. He just doesn’t want the woman to hate him. When women say it, I think many times they mean it in the traditional sense. They want to maintain a relationship with the guy because they genuinely enjoyed them. Some times, though, what they really mean is, “Let’s spend some platonic time together so you can see how great I am and maybe you’ll change your mind.” Men use this line with this intention as well. It’s less common that either gender means, “Let’s stay in touch and hang out.”

“I’m afraid to be hurt/vulnerable.” - Cliche alert! Listen. You get a window of time after a bad break up to lick your wounds and feel sorry for yourself. But if you’re still banging this drum a couple years later? You’re just looking for attention or sympathy or hoping to victimize yourself so as to avoid judgment for bad decisions.

“I’m in an open relationship” or “We have an arrangement.” - Nothing got me to hit the delete button on a message faster than this. I do believe that many people do have “arrangements” and that they work for the couple. But if they don’t approach the date by telling you outright what the deal is, they’re likely lying. The couples I know in open relationships all have one rule in common. Don’t have sex with the same person more than a couple times. So if this man or woman tells you that they’re in an open relationship, and you and they have sex every couple months for an ongoing amount of time? They’re probably lying. They just don’t want you to get attached.

“I just don’t think we clicked romantically.” - I’d guess that most of the common variations of this reason are lies as well. Translation: I didn’t find you attractive. You want to hear that from someone? I don’t. I’m fine with the lie. But push someone to be honest and that’s what you’ll get.

“I’m not looking for a relationship right now but I like hanging out with you.” - Translation: I’ll have sex with you, but I won’t date you. You’re good enough for the occasional hook up but I wouldn’t introduce you to my friends.

“I’m okay with it being just sex.” - Now, I’ve told this lie before. I thought I meant it. Most women do. Yes, I said women because I don’t think most men have a problem being “used” for sex. Eventually, the woman who isn’t ok with the arrangement will try to back end her way in to a relationship with the guy by withholding the one thing she knows he wants. That’s not a great way to start a relationship. If you get offended that he doesn’t call in advance to set up your booty dates, or if it bothers you that he doesn’t make personal inquiries or keeps conversations impersonal or doesn’t retain anything you say, then you’re not okay with it being “just sex.”

Any others?

Share

Just How Available Are You…Really?

Name: Kay
State: MI
Age: 38
Comment: I’ve been trying online dating for a while, but haven’t put too much effort into it.  Just a little effort here and there.  I’m finding it hard to read men’s online/virtual behavior and understand how to anticipate what kind of person he may be in real life.

I met a seemingly nice man online and we exchanged a few emails.  We traded phone numbers and started texting.  We’ve made plans to meet when our schedules sync up in about a week (we both have kids so it’s not always easy to free up right away).  Actually, he was free pretty much anytime, as his kids are older.  I don’t go out when I have my kids, as I must get a sitter, and frankly my time with them is precious.  He was understanding of that.  Good guy, right?  The thing is, he is texting me all the time.  I told him I was going to be watching football with a friend today and said “we’ll talk later.” and he continued to text all day.  About once an hour.  It feels like too much and I wonder if he would be needy and overwhelming.  But then I don’t want to be the kind of woman who runs away from a nice attentive guy..you know, the kind of woman who only goes after the unavailable men.  It’s taken me a while, but I’m learning to like the nice guys and spot the jerks before I get attached.  And I’ve been turning them away.  Now to spot the good guys from the needy ones.

If you had any tips on how to read men before meeting them, that would be great!

 

I’ll base my response on personal experience. The times where I’ve compulsively contacted someone have always been when I perceived they were being dismissive in some way. I sensed something was “off.” Which doesn’t mean they were doing anything wrong. They just weren’t giving me the attention or acknowledgement I wanted. So let’s put ourselves in the shoes of this guy.

SCENARIO 1 - You tell him that you’re watching football “with a friend.” If I were him, I’d assume you were with a guy. So, if I’m feeling particularly insecure, I’m going to text you to see how you respond or if you respond at all.

SCENARIO 2 - I’m completely clueless or not picking up on what you’re trying to tell me. You keep responding so I assume you don’t mind that I’m texting you.

Sometimes we get needy because we’re just inherently needy. But sometimes we get needy because we feel something is amiss. Between having a not so flexible schedule due to having your kids to watching football with “a friend,” it’s possible you’re coming across ambivalent in some way. Maybe not intentionally and certainly not to be hurtful. But to the person on the other end of the line, who is available and wants to meet, you might be giving off the “unavailable” vibe. So he’s feeling you out just as you are feeling him out. In dating, it’s important to be aware of how you might be perceived. Of course, you are not totally responsible for those perceptions. But it doesn’t hurt to put yourself in the shoes of the other person before making a decision or determination.

As I said in the comments of another thread, there are things people do that raise red flags for me.

1.  They take too long to reply to messages.

2. They have inordinately busy schedules or travel a lot.

3. Dates are spaced out with more than a week in between.

I perceive those people to be unavailable.  Unfortunately, online dating sites are filled with the jugglers, emotionally unavailable and the time wasters. After a few months of dealing with those types over and over, people just lose patience.Maybe this guy is trying to gauge how available you are so he doesn’t waste his time? Maybe he’s ready and open and wants to meet someone who is, too.

My suggestion to you is to be clear in your communications. If you are not available to text, respond to the first text with someone light and say, “I’ll be watching the game for the next few hours so let’s pick this up later tonight.” Lay down the boundary. If he then disregards that boundary and continues to text, that’s when you know you have a problem on your hands. Someone who disregards the boundaries that you lay down probably isn’t healthy enough to engage.

You also need to figure out just what sort of time commitment you can make. I’ll be perfectly honest and say the vibe I get from your letter is rigid and “unavailable.” You’ve already set up one exit strategy – your kids. I certainly understand and respect your choice to make your kids a priority. But if you want a relationship – a real one – then you have to go in to dating with the mindset that you’ll at least try to be more flexible.

If I read someone’s profile and they mentioned how much they work, I avoided them. If they talked about their kids (and definitely if they posted photos of them) and mentioned how their kids are a priority…I avoided them. Next.   Those people are already telling you that they don’t have much time. I said it before and I stand by it….if that first date doesn’t happen within a week of the first email exchange, and that person doesn’t offer a plausible reason for being unavailable that week other than the cliched “work is crazy” then be wary. Not. Available. Your relationship will revolve around them and their schedule. Those who will debate this need to accept the real possibility that they’re not nearly as available as they think. Either they’re not ready to give up the juggling or they’re simply not ready or capable of having a real relationship. Great for them if they find someone with an equally busy schedule. In my opinion those people, consciously or unconsciously, are looking for other unavailable people.

If you already have a a reason why you won’t or can’t be more available, you’re setting yourself up for failure.

 

 

 

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Share

© 2013 And That's Why You're Single All Rights Reserved -- Copyright notice by Blog Copyright